Imago said:

Richard Haseltine said:

I am told that the newxt major build of Daz Studio, using Qt 6, is going to use Metal for MacOS. Windows may use OpenGL, Vulkan, or may even offer a choice - that is not yet determined.

Tha animation previews will be faster and smoother?

We probably shouldn't speculate too wildly for fear of disappointement, but the potential is sure there. As a Mac guy, I know that *theoretically* Metal is capable of 10x the speed of OpenGL, but I assume that's under absolutely ideal conditions and perfect implementation, the real world usually falls short. Metal previews can use both the CPU and GPU cores, though so if DAZ is able to implement that, then I would expect a significant bump in speed of some sort.

I was already pretty eager waiting for DAZ 5 (and after two years of waiting for Filament) so now there's a new level of excitement.

vrba79 said:

My main speculative takeaway is that we're gonna be stuck with IRAY as the mainline and glorified preview renderers like OpenGL and Filament as our only options going forward, starting with DS5.

I'd love to be surprised and proved wrong, but that's just not the vibe I'm picking up.

Well, for the vast majority of both the users and the content creators iRay has been the mainline for quite a while now. DAZ not supplying 3DL options for the launch of the Genesis 9 characters doesn't look great for us 3DL users, but again, it's been coming for quite a while.

I've only used Filament a little bit, but it did a better job for me than OpenGL so I'm still very much looking forward to it, as for me, it's what I need right now. I suspect that OpenGL, once the Mac has Filament, will probably pass away quietly.

Honestly, I'm not sure at this point if 3DL will be left behind completely, or possibly replaced by a more robust rendering engine. People with very powerful non-Nvidia cards would no doubt love it, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to talk the PAs into supporting two engines.

I guess we just have to wait until DAZ Studio 5 does come out, but it really would be nice to get some advance notice from DAZ to help us plan a bit.

My main speculative takeaway is that we're gonna be stuck with IRAY as the mainline and glorified preview renderers like OpenGL and Filament as our only options going forward, starting with DS5.

I'd love to be surprised and proved wrong, but that's just not the vibe I'm picking up.

wsterdan said:

vrba79 said:

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

 

Harsh! I'm just starting a larger animation project using OpenGL, and am only startting now because I've waited for a few months, hoping to use Filament on the Mac but can't keep waiting. So... ouch! 

I feel your pain! I could also use a quick pbr renderer for my obscure animation projects. With 3DL REYES rendering I can get down to a couple of secs/frame but, frankly, the results don't satisfy me anymore (partly because Omnifreaker's excellent UberSoft Lightkit is broken now, it did a great job of simulating light geometry), and using the pathtracer is still too slow, unless you really dumb it down, disable GI and so on...

So are the game engines like UE5 viable options for Mac-users? (Me being an IntelXeon user)

vrba79 said:

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

 

Harsh! I'm just starting a larger animation project using OpenGL, and am only startting now because I've waited for a few months, hoping to use Filament on the Mac but can't keep waiting. So... ouch! 

DAZ_Rawb said:

Hi everyone. Drum roll please...

As Director of Technology for Daz 3D, I wanted to give you some big news.  The Daz Studio team has been hard at work on a massive foundation change for Daz Studio that will be released as Daz Studio 5! Our project has been the #1 priority for the team for quite some time now, and it's almost done. Since we know how important getting a Mac version of Daz Studio is to all of you, we are switching up our release plans (from our normal releases) to get you a look at the upcoming Daz Studio 5 as soon as possible.

Details of the upcoming Daz Studio 5 early-access Pre-Beta:
- Release timing for this early-access preview is coming soon, at the very end of this month (July) or sometime next month (August).
- This will be a pre-beta release. Normally we wait until the software is completely finished before releasing it.
- Major Update will be Daz Studio release running for Macs, no other major features in the Pre-Beta.
- All Plugins and some scripts will be broken. The SDK won't be available with this first release, but will be following it up at a later date. Some other less used features won't work at launch, but will be coming online throughout the year.
- This release will work on at least x86 Macs (with both Filament and Iray). We are still investigating if this initial early-access release will run either natively or through emulation on M1 macs, but M1 support will come during the continued development of Daz Studio 5.
- It will install into a new location, so you can run it along your current Daz Studio (release/beta) without problems.

As for the final Daz Studio 5 release:
- The timeline for this is to have it out near the very end of this year.
- Features and enhancements will be rolling in through the rest of the year.
- Anyone who has Daz Studio 4 in their account will be able to keep it. You'll be able to continue to download and use it for the foreseeable future.

I hope everyone is just as excited about Daz Studio 5 as we are.

Applause, applause...  Thank you very much for the great news.  I am beyond excited.  Beyond words.  Please, don't work too hard and forget that we are only human and all need some sleep. :)  Good Luck!

Torquinox said:

AllenArt said:

FSMCDesigns said:

vrba79 said:

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

 

Lots other free options for rendering, Cycles, Indigo, Arnold, Kerkythea, LuxCore, Radeon ProRender, etc

Not to mention Eevee ;) 

Listing renderers doesn't mean you can get Daz stuff into them for rendering. None of this works in DS.  Eevee and Cycles both require export to Blender. Everything else is a nifty idea, but how does any of that actually work? How does any of that help the ordinary person using DS to render the stuff in their Daz library?

Believe me, I am a total dunce at getting stuff from one program into another, but have you tried Diffeomorphic? It makes getting figures AND props into Blender as easy as pie. Setting up Cycles or Eevee to render isn't that hard - the hardest thing is getting the camera(s) too cooperate, but once those are set up, you are off and rendering.  

FSMCDesigns said:

vrba79 said:

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

 

Lots other free options for rendering, Cycles, Indigo, Arnold, Kerkythea, LuxCore, Radeon ProRender, etc

Christ, I WISH Arnold were free, but that is super not the case.

AllenArt said:

FSMCDesigns said:

vrba79 said:

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

 

Lots other free options for rendering, Cycles, Indigo, Arnold, Kerkythea, LuxCore, Radeon ProRender, etc

Not to mention Eevee ;) 

Listing renderers doesn't mean you can get Daz stuff into them for rendering. None of this works in DS.  Eevee and Cycles both require export to Blender. Everything else is a nifty idea, but how does any of that actually work? How does any of that help the ordinary person using DS to render the stuff in their Daz library?

FSMCDesigns said:

vrba79 said:

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

 

Lots other free options for rendering, Cycles, Indigo, Arnold, Kerkythea, LuxCore, Radeon ProRender, etc

Not to mention Eevee ;) 

vrba79 said:

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

 

Lots other free options for rendering, Cycles, Indigo, Arnold, Kerkythea, LuxCore, Radeon ProRender, etc

As this latest kerfuffel with the Iray engine and Nvidia drivers reveals, having just one engine that operates completely at the whin of how the video driver it's 100% dependant shows the need for a reliable alternative. If not 3Delight, then we need something comperable, and before someone says "Filament!" that's a bigger joke than the OpenGL renderer.

PerttiA said:

wsterdan said:

I would love to get an update from DAZ as well, but for now I'll just assume that it's be some time in the new year. Before Apple helped them get DAZ Studio running on Big Sur, DAZ had planned on releasing a mostly-working version somewhere around last January,

Nope, they said they were working on getting a PRE-beta out (=minimal functionality, with more bugs than a beta version), and they planned on adding features and functionality all through this year.
But when they got DS 4 working with Big Sur, there was no need to release the PRE-beta.

"Nope", they were planning on releasing a PRE-Beta July or August 2021, and a full DAZ 5 release in December, 2021 with features and enhancements rolling out through the year (2022). A post from them told us that Filament was already working on the Mac in the PRE-Beta. 

From the first post of this thread (July, 2021):

Details of the upcoming Daz Studio 5 early-access Pre-Beta:
- Release timing for this early-access preview is coming soon, at the very end of this month (July) or sometime next month (August).

As for the final Daz Studio 5 release:
- The timeline for this is to have it out near the very end of this year.
- Features and enhancements will be rolling in through the rest of the year.
- Anyone who has Daz Studio 4 in their account will be able to keep it. You'll be able to continue to download and use it for the foreseeable future.

 -- Walt Sterdan

I'd rather have that then Filament as the only alternative to IRAY. The writing is on the wall for 3DL's future in Daz Studio, now that new Daz base figures are shipping without support for it.

I would love to get an update from DAZ as well, but for now I'll just assume that it's be some time in the new year. Before Apple helped them get DAZ Studio running on Big Sur, DAZ had planned on releasing a mostly-working version somewhere around last January, so by now they've had an extra 10 months to add the features that wouldn't have been available then. January will mean they've had a full year to tweak and polish it, so I'm hoping for January. 

The only new features I'm hoping for, as a Mac user, is to finally be able to use Rilament (it's not for everyone, but from my own  tests it's exactly what I'm after) and -- hopefully -- that DAZ Studio 5 will be Apple Silicon native. Now, they had Filament running on the Mac 14 months ago (or longer) so I'm assuming that's a given.

Imago said:

vrba79 said:

 

Iray isn't even that reliable.

Yup, totaly unreliable. Just update the drivers and you lose weeks to fix the issues just to get new ones at next drivers update.

Why not just revert to the previous version of the driver that was working?

Not mentioning waiting the colossal render times just to discover all-black images due to VRAM issues. And the materials... ARGH!

No, thanks! Just leave my old, always working, 3Delight waiting for a better integration with Filament.

vrba79 said:

 

Iray isn't even that reliable.

Yup, totaly unreliable. Just update the drivers and you lose weeks to fix the issues just to get new ones at next drivers update. Not mentioning waiting the colossal render times just to discover all-black images due to VRAM issues. And the materials... ARGH!

No, thanks! Just leave my old, always working, 3Delight waiting for a better integration with Filament.

Imago said:

algovincian said:

Is this a sign? I've searched, but can't find any info since this thread was started a year and a half ago.

I guess that a good 80% of DAZ Users will stop using DAZ Studio in the case they remove 3Delight.

If really they want to remove 3Delight they should at least make Filament fully usable, thing that I don't think will happen soon considering the atrocious state with the bugs in the software.

I can't speak for any percentage of users but, personally, I have not rendered anything (apart from a few test renders) in 3DL for years. Even before I got an IRay capable GPU I used to render with Reality/Luxrender rather than 3DL. I've seen articles on what later versions of 3DL is capable of but DAZ does not offer those versions.

As for Filament - what a huge disappointment that was. I was really optimistic when I saw some Filament renders online but the implementation by DAZ has, once again, fallen far short of those expectations. Both IRay alternatives are poor-man's versions of what they could be. I feel for those who don't have a recent and powerful GPU because that was me for many years and I do hope that DAZ can come up with something better.

algovincian said:

Is this a sign? I've searched, but can't find any info since this thread was started a year and a half ago.

I guess that a good 80% of DAZ Users will stop using DAZ Studio in the case they remove 3Delight.

If really they want to remove 3Delight they should at least make Filament fully usable, thing that I don't think will happen soon considering the atrocious state with the bugs in the software.

algovincian said:

With the release of G9/V9, there has been some discussion about the fact that 3DL mats are not included. While most PAs have been phasing out 3DL for quite a while now, I believe this is the first base figure not to include them. Is this a sign? I've searched, but can't find any info since this thread was started a year and a half ago.

Will the 3DL engine be included in DS5?

Also generally curious about how things are going on the DS5 front.

- Greg

Unless filament has improved to the point that it can offer a fast, easy to use, and lighting friendly, alternative to 3DL I don't see why they would drop 3DL, unless to save a licencing fee.

As for Win 10/11 only this is not a new thing. Supporting operating systems that the manufacturer has stopped supporting is asking for more work by the DAZ developers than could be cost justified by management. Remember Daz Studio 5 will be around for atleast 5 years based on previous versions. In 5 years Windows 11 will be old software.

People complain about yet another new figure (Genesis 9) but nothing is compelling them to abandon previous generations. Previous generations are still on offer and a huge selection of items. I think the target market for Genesis 9 is NEW users, who do not have a massive investment in previous products. In 2 years the old timers will board the Genesis 9 train.

The world is now on a 3 to 7 year replacement cycle for everything. Buying quality and keeping it for years is old world thinking (my world). For the last 30 years everything has moved away from the old world. I use to call it Wal-mart world but we moved way beyond that. I think it started with BIc pens and lighters in the 70s.

Please enjoy the New World, and keep your hands inside the windows as we move forward at blindly speeds. :-)