DAZ Connect news - Encrypted files will be unlocked after 12 months

Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 64,066
edited February 2016 in The Commons

DAZ Steve posted this in the previous thread on DAZ Connect and Encryption, but since it's a big change we thought it deserved a new thread of its own:

I have an announcement to make:

It has taken a bit of time, researching of numbers, and technical development and testing, but we feel that the jist of the idea above is not only doable, but does indeed address a significant number of concerns of Daz, the interest of the PA's, and customers.  As such, Timmins, I want to say "We hear you", and furthermore "We thank you" for your suggestion.  

Effective immediately we are rolling out functionality that will cause Encrypted products to become un-encrypted 12 months after launch.  This will be through a process that runs on our servers and replaces the encrypted content with a non-encrypted one.  Anyone who buys or updates the product after that point will get the non-encrypted version.  This means that even if you buy it during that first year, at the end of the time period you will be able to get it as an update without encryption if that is of concern to you.

This change is effective now.  Any encrypted content that has or will release will automatically decrypt after 12 months after its launch date.

   The folks at Daz

And on formats and file organisation:

Once it's de-crypted you should be able to pull them down through DIM if you would like.  Also, we are almost done with development on a new content hierarchy for Content Library that should address a lot of people's concerns with wanting the old Content Library-like experience, and more flexibility with moving things around.  More details to come (within weeks) on that.

Post edited by DAZ_Steve on
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Comments

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,189

    Thank you.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,241

    As I said in the other threads, this is a great way to solve a whole bunch of problems. At WORST, people delay their purchases and might miss out on sales.

    I feel much better, and am very gratified that Daz is willing to embrace compromise.

     

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 993
    edited February 2016

    Glad to see a reasonable compromise enacted. May still bother some, but I buy a lot of older stuff anyhow.  And having a sunset on the encryption at least means that these encrypted products won't be locked down forever. Could wish for a shorter period, but I'm sure that'll be sorted by long term data gathering rather than anything said in the forum. 

     

    Just a small request for Daz: If any of these items had Poser compatible files stripped out to make the encrypted version package, please hang on to them to be put back after the encrypted period ends. It'd be a shame to waste such if they exist. :)

    Post edited by TesseractSpace on
  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,189
    edited February 2016

    As I said in the other threads, this is a great way to solve a whole bunch of problems. At WORST, people delay their purchases and might miss out on sales.

    I feel much better, and am very gratified that Daz is willing to embrace compromise.

     

    You are going to let us know when you post your first render using your new toys, aren't you, Will?

    Will?

    No pressure, of course...

    Post edited by Petercat on
  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,189

    Glad to see a reasonable compromise enacted. May still bother some, but I buy a lot of older stuff anyhow.  And having a sunset on the encryption at least means that these encrypted products won't be locked down forever. Could wish for a shorter period, but I'm sure that'll be sorted by long term data gathering rather than anything said in the forum. 

     

    Just a small request for Daz: If any of these items had Poser compatible files stripped out to make the encrypted version package, please hang on to them to be put back after the encrypted period ends. It'd be a shame to waste such if they exist. :)

    I don't use Poser, but +1 anyway!

  • hphoenixhphoenix Posts: 1,325

    This is good news.  Not great news (except for Timmins....congrats!) but good news.  I think the 12 month period needs to be evaluated.....items are 'new' for about 2 months.  Within that time, I'd guess about 90% of the items total sales occur.  Of course, due to discounts, that's probably only about 75% of the money earned during that time on the product.  After about 2 more months, it's fading away (unless it is a major figure, or a powerful utility), and by 6 months, it's typically mostly forgotten, except for those who have it wishlisted and are waiting for some big sale it fits into.

     

    12 months isn't going to deter piracy/CC Fraud.  Heck, we know 1 month wouldn't.  Some people want it free, and now, regardless.  It's really a question of casual piracy vs waiting and discounts.   And I think the more 'casual' would be willing to wait 2 months....3 months.....maybe even 6 months.  But not a full year.

     

    But this is a step in the right direction.....and I'm setting my PC+ renewal back to auto.....this renews some of my faith in DAZ.

    Thanks to DAZ, and Steve (who I'm guessing has been carrying messages from us here back and forth internally about this), and the rest of us all who have debated, argued, steamed, ranted, and such while still trying to find answers.

     

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 5,466

    Yay for the compromise on the encryptions, that being said I do not kow what the hoopla is all about I got both the Freebie Friday gifts and have used them all with no problems at all shrugs shoulders. No crashes no slowing down nada. So I am just wondering why some are so pissed about it?

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,327

    Since timmins (ie Will) has become the knight in shinning armor that slew the DRM dragon (albeit he is armed with a small knife, so it takes him 12 months to kill a dragon), maybe he needs a new honorific we should refer him by. Sir Will maybe, or Lord Timmins of Drmfreeland.

  • Petercat said:

    Glad to see a reasonable compromise enacted. May still bother some, but I buy a lot of older stuff anyhow.  And having a sunset on the encryption at least means that these encrypted products won't be locked down forever. Could wish for a shorter period, but I'm sure that'll be sorted by long term data gathering rather than anything said in the forum. 

     

    Just a small request for Daz: If any of these items had Poser compatible files stripped out to make the encrypted version package, please hang on to them to be put back after the encrypted period ends. It'd be a shame to waste such if they exist. :)

    I don't use Poser, but +1 anyway!

    I don't really either, but several people do, and I do have Poser 10 for the few things Studio doesn't have. I just cringe at the thought of any files being lost or deleted. I'm a bit of a packrat.

  • PetercatPetercat Posts: 2,189

    Yay for the compromise on the encryptions, that being said I do not kow what the hoopla is all about I got both the Freebie Friday gifts and have used them all with no problems at all shrugs shoulders. No crashes no slowing down nada. So I am just wondering why some are so pissed about it?

    This will be the last time that I address this.

    Some of us have computers that can not be connected online. So anything like Daz Connect or encryption that requires us to be online is useless to us.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,241

    People who can't connect online, people who need/want to use older versions of Daz, Carrara/Hexagon users, Poser (and other) users.

    All those people just flat-out can't use encrypted stuff. And, reasonably speaking, it seems very likely that content will be Encrypted, more and more into the future.

     

    Then there's a host of less clear-cut issues, but those are enough, I think.

     

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 32,703

    Not to forget the Brycers.

  • Thankyou DAZ, not sure if it will help with carrara compatibility but is a step in the right direction, I actually never had an issue with DRM itself, just fuctionality in my software.

  • Was hoping for 6 months but HEY ! I can live with it.

    back to talking about insane (fun) sales promotions.

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 8,726
    edited February 2016
    Petercat said:

    Yay for the compromise on the encryptions, that being said I do not kow what the hoopla is all about I got both the Freebie Friday gifts and have used them all with no problems at all shrugs shoulders. No crashes no slowing down nada. So I am just wondering why some are so pissed about it?

    This will be the last time that I address this.

    Some of us have computers that can not be connected online. So anything like Daz Connect or encryption that requires us to be online is useless to us.

    Thank you, DAZ.

    Actually a question for DAZ Steve that seems unclear at this point: Once the product becomes unencrypted after the 12 month period will it be available by DIM and manual download?

    Post edited by Charlie Judge on
  • Yay for the compromise on the encryptions, that being said I do not kow what the hoopla is all about I got both the Freebie Friday gifts and have used them all with no problems at all shrugs shoulders. No crashes no slowing down nada. So I am just wondering why some are so pissed about it?

    Complicated question. Some have certain objections to the practice of DRM due to it's misuse in other markets. Others worry that it's another point where something can go wrong.  I ran into a few technical issues not with the encrypted products themselves, but with things connected to the infrastructure made to support them.

    Then there were concerns and questions raised that Daz couldn't answer with any clarity (understandably so as they delved into matters internal to DAZ that no company would share with their customers) and those generated some ill feeling.

    Really, I think they've managed to come up with a compromise that can be lived with. Far better than a lot of DRM out there, and the DAZ representitives been reasonable throughout given the rather difficult subject.

    I still worry that they may need to implement a stronger and more restrictive DRM given the limitations of the current one, but at least it's not going to be on anything forever which makes it a bit easier to swallow.

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 1,793
    Petercat said:

    Yay for the compromise on the encryptions, that being said I do not kow what the hoopla is all about I got both the Freebie Friday gifts and have used them all with no problems at all shrugs shoulders. No crashes no slowing down nada. So I am just wondering why some are so pissed about it?

    This will be the last time that I address this.

    Some of us have computers that can not be connected online. So anything like Daz Connect or encryption that requires us to be online is useless to us.

    +1

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,241
    edited February 2016
    Petercat said:

    You are going to let us know when you post your first render using your new toys, aren't you, Will?

    Will?

    No pressure, of course...

    Heh. I'll have to think of what to cobble together. Maybe try to use only stuff I just picked up...

    (Also trying not to run through the store screaming like a kid in a very poorly secured candy store)

     

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,195
    edited February 2016

    So I will have to wait 12 months to buy anything you decide to encrypt, which would put it a year behind with that tech. Why would I buy year old stuff, unless it was sold for like a dollar? That still loses you plenty of our money. Stuff we might have bought new, could be passed on altogether unless it was something specific needed a year later, or super cheap. 

    Post edited by TheKD on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 10,494
    edited February 2016

    It's a little longer than I would have liked, but like you say, it is about compromise; consider me a happy customer again.

    ... If a little more cautious.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • a-sennova-sennov Posts: 331

    Step in right direction for DAZ (and congrats to Timmins)... but for me it doesn't change much: if item is encrypted - I'm not interested, and after a year... well, world is dangerous place and first I'll have to live that long :)

    All this DRM saga has led me to change my approach to shopping in 3d stores. Which is good:)

  • DAZ Steve posted this in the previous thread on DAZ Connect and Encryption, but since it's a big change we thought it deserved a new thread of its own:

    DAZ_Steve said:

    I have an announcement to make:

    It has taken a bit of time, researching of numbers, and technical development and testing, but we feel that the jist of the idea above is not only doable, but does indeed address a significant number of concerns of Daz, the interest of the PA's, and customers.  As such, Timmins, I want to say "We hear you", and furthermore "We thank you" for your suggestion.  

    Effective immediately we are rolling out functionality that will cause Encrypted products to become un-encrypted 12 months after launch.  This will be through a process that runs on our servers and replaces the encrypted content with a non-encrypted one.  Anyone who buys or updates the product after that point will get the non-encrypted version.  This means that even if you buy it during that first year, at the end of the time period you will be able to get it as an update without encryption if that is of concern to you.

    This change is effective now.  Any encrypted content that has or will release will automatically decrypt after 12 months after its launch date.

       The folks at Daz

    Thank you  for listening and for what is a more than acceptable compromise. In fact, I think it is one where all parties involved benefit.  Customers will be able to feel more secure in their financial investment of purchased content, and the PA's as well as DAZ3D will benefit by having the protection afforded by the encryption on their products during the time of peak sales.

    Also congratulations to Will who, as I understand it, came up with the idea in the first place.  Well done sir.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 6,419
    edited February 2016

    Daz I am proud of you. This is a very satisfying  compromise. though i will not be purchasing encrypted content at least i know if I live long enough that it will be  available sometime in the future as a Zip or dim file and it will be in my wishlist until then... 

    I am truly looking forward to you implementing the option to, op out of using the daz connect file systems. when that happens then I will be happy to upgrade my studio software. other wise  thank you for listening to our suggestions  this goes a long way in restoring faith.   

    Back to fun and games

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • A very interesting solution, and one that will work well for me for the most part because I tend to be a late adopter (bargain hunter) anyway.

    Since it is traditional to complain, I will note that DAZ Steve waited until after the Valentines promotion ended before making his announcement, thus denying me the opportunity to acquire Eva in this round of combined super sales. Obviously personal. crying cheeky

    But there are always DAZ super sales around the corner, and I can look forward to the next one with renewed enthusiasm.

    Congrats to William T, and indeed to us all. To paraphrase Churchill, never in the field of forum conflict was so much owed by so many to so vocal few.

    :mrgreen:

    .

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,327
    TheKD said:

    So I will have to wait 12 months to buy anything you decide to encrypt, which would put it a year behind with that tech. Why would I buy year old stuff, unless it was sold for like a dollar? That still loses you plenty of our money. Stuff we might have bought new, could be passed on altogether unless it was something specific needed a year later, or super cheap. 

    In my experience 3D content ages pretty well. Even clothing for figures that are no longer the latest can be fit to the lastest and greatest ones. Yes, there are some products that look dated, but a number of those were often poorly modeled in the first place. I have seen a lot of really old stuff refreshed with some iRay shaders, and a few new textures here and there.

  • Ivy said:

    Daz I am proud of you. This is a very satisfying  compromise. though i will not be purchasing encrypted content at least i know if I live long enough that it will be  available sometime in the future as a Zip or dim file and it will be in my wishlist until then... 

    I am truly looking forward to you implementing the option to, op out of using the daz connect file systems. when that happens then I will be happy to upgrade my studio software. other wise  thank you for listening to our suggestions  this goes a long way in restoring faith.   

    Back to fun and games

    You can just use DIM with 4.9.  It works fine. (other than for encrypted files)

     

       Steve

  • de3ande3an Posts: 910

    First I'd like to thank the Daz management for listening to their customers and agreeing on a compromise.

    However, in my case (and as mentioned by others), I will not be able to take advantage of any encrypted items when they are introduced. When I purchase content, I acquire it for use in software other than Daz Studio. I my case it's Carrara. I would have no objection to purchasing content that is initially encrypted if I was able to load it into Carrara as I can presently with unencrypted Daz content. (As many have reported, exporting from Studio is not a satisfactory solution.)

    I mention this in the hope that you will put some effort into making your other software titles that also use purchased "content" (Carrara, Bryce, and any others that I might not be aware of) encrypted-capable. Otherwise, this segment of your customer base will have to wait a full year before purchasing new encrypted releases.

     

    -Thanks

  • Wow! I think I can live with this. I think the store credit given to Will says a lot too.

  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,328
    fool said:

    Thankyou DAZ, not sure if it will help with carrara compatibility but is a step in the right direction, I actually never had an issue with DRM itself, just fuctionality in my software.

    +1

    I'm not a fan of DRM, but will buy something if I really want it, however when it wouldn't be unusable in Carrara, it would have to either be free or simply awesome to "buy". The downside for me is that intro sales of encrypted content won't be as attractive, and the long wait to use it in Carrara isn't optimal. But on the plus side, if I don't have to have it "now", I can just wait until it goes on a deep discount sale laugh (fewer impulse buys = less money spent on things that I like, but may not use).

    Overall though, it's really nice to see a bit of comprimise.

    Now for the big question...... when will Genesis 3 be supported in Carrara?

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,195
    edited February 2016

    i

    Havos said:
    TheKD said:

    So I will have to wait 12 months to buy anything you decide to encrypt, which would put it a year behind with that tech. Why would I buy year old stuff, unless it was sold for like a dollar? That still loses you plenty of our money. Stuff we might have bought new, could be passed on altogether unless it was something specific needed a year later, or super cheap. 

    In my experience 3D content ages pretty well. Even clothing for figures that are no longer the latest can be fit to the lastest and greatest ones. Yes, there are some products that look dated, but a number of those were often poorly modeled in the first place. I have seen a lot of really old stuff refreshed with some iRay shaders, and a few new textures here and there.

    True, but what are the odds I don't find something similar enough at one of the other stores before the 12 months are up? It would have to be super special, or practically free, so still a lot of potential sales gone. I am seeing a lot of good G3F stuff elsewhere lately, and am hoping that G3M stuff also starts popping up more often as well. Long live competitive markets.

    Post edited by TheKD on
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