Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
That's the thing, though, we are trying to isolate it when rendering...but what our eyes see, all the time is the end result. Generally, we can't do that in the real world. It takes some pretty powerfull lighting or getting everything 'just right' in 'normal' lighting. I can take my hi lumen LED flashlight and nearly see through my palm....it does give a nice glow, but even putting my hand over my eyes on a bright, clear, sunny day isn't enough. Maybe, if I could do it with a shaft of sunlight in otherwise total darkness...
While it may not be scientifically accurate, the end result is what is going to matter more.
...got it. Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was along the neck/head area.
"While it may not be scientifically accurate, the end result is what is going to matter more. "
...
correct.. but there is a big difference in the shadow of metal and a nose... there it is.- the translucency of the human face (not skin) ...
Anyway - it was more a thing betwee Arnold and me... he said i am the first person which can see light trough his own pinky -- NO i am not
And rendering Bones.. needs a LOT of translucency (same as porcelain and similiar materials.. to make them look real... because they are translucent!
the main point i try to say... we simulate a face not a skin in iray AND octane .. and even more tmc and tm distances will not change that...
http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Edit-Boy-578942735
Whew, almost 4 hours. No postwork.
Perhaps a bit too much satiny sheen on the skin, I dunno, I like it.
I ended up using the AJ vascularity maps (for a little detail in the ear and eyes) with a very pale pink for translucency (1.00 .66 .66), then transmitted 2.0 distance and pure red transmitted color, .1 sss distance, .5 sss wt, .5 sss direction.
I don't know...I can almost see the dumbell in his hand....looks like he's trying to do the last rep in a set of 50 curls.
I reflected on the fact that you can interpret that picture in many ways. I suppose that's a good thing.
He could be exercising, he could be 'exercising,' he could be dealing with a breakup, he could have just lost at CoD, maybe he broke a tooth, or his sister made a really awful pun...
the vascularity map is good to see.. maybe a tad to much on the torso, and the ears shine a tad to yellow instead reddish... but i like it.
Seven days without a pun makes one weak...
Well, do you know how the Octane renderer exactly works? And by knowing I mean definately knowing and not assuming or wild guessing.
3DS Max uses the same term as DAZ for that parameter on their material setup (see below), and the Iray Uber is based on the 3DS Max Iray material. So it's a classical 2 vs. 1 situation. Naming it absorption color ("absorbation" is a term you can't even find in a dictionary) wouldn't make any logical sense. On both 3DS Max Iray material and DAZ's Iray Uber the "Transmitted Color" determines the amount of light per RGB channel which is transmitted trough the volume, not the one absorbed. What's so hard to understand about that?
Below is a graph that shows the absorption coefficients (the thing that Iray works with to determine the amount of light transmitted through the volume, it doesn't use the color value directly) of human skin. The red line represents the absorption coefficents over the wavelength range for your monochrome solution. Uniform all the way. What it does is simply almost killing all distance dependent changes of the transmission, like shown on these examples. The Translucency Color isn't designed for determining transmission on it's own. Putting a monochrome on Transmitted Color is as wrong as putting a pure red in Translucency Color.
absorbation .. my false ..( 3 languages in my country),,,,
transmitted color is correct in Daz Iray... because absorption color in Octane is the invers! But it does the same.
I do not guess more or lesser then you do - i did just all the translucnecy tests you did the last days - 3 months ago... same as knowing that refraction index does nothing whitout weight > zero.
We are not here - to hack on each other... i did that nowhere to you.
naming the paramter correctly in Iray DAZ.. would have helped you to understand that translucency color get's multplied with tmc )invers?) - simple. I know it since 3 months.
It is the same then always saying scatter and absorption have nothing to do with each other - NO.. the scatter traces so long TILL the colorvalue is zero... they are NOT seperatly - just in formulas.
So - let's go back to do something meaningfull... Refraction and Scatter ?
and you can also absorb a monochrom grey in translucecy - because YOU HAVE R G AND B... in grey.... check my ball render.. and you see it all... you must not explain it to me... absorbation - translucency - Base - and l sample color for the scatter.. all there.
a pixel or a sample is always monochrom in linear color space.
"wavelength range for your monochrome solution."
where do i have a monochrom solution ? jaq has a monochrom solution - just again something you just saying.
we can also go privat if you like - because i think we worked well together the last two weeks .. we should continue
Yes, as you've noted, I haven't actually turned on refraction yet. No kidding that means refraction does nothing. I'm not reverting my IOR value because I want it in there for when I, eventually, turn refraction on.
Okay, this is what I'm working with now. Switched my previous translucency and transmittance colors to have the brighter one in translucency as was recommended by Arnold. That left exactly the same color because DAZ just multiplies those two together, but I'm hoping as he showed it will change with other parameters more realistically. Also changed the base skin tone to something more yellow so most of the red would come from scattering. That seems more normal for human skin (something like 95% SSS contribution).
These shots were using those parameters, varying only the SSS direction. As you can see, -1.0 and -0.5 have very strong back scatter. Between 0 and +0.5 look the most reasonable to me, then at +1.0 the through scatter gets unrealistically overpowering.
agent unawares
as i understand it and my test showed it...
transluceny map or color - get's just added (or multiplied (photo algo - multiplied - no change in gamma)... with TMC(invers, absorbtion... that's the start sample ... for absorption.. here guessing.. but that's what i see...
Nice test serie .... i am surprised that Scatter 0 looks good - i guessed it could be a circle - and not isometric (doing nothing)... but must test that myself.. was just a idea before somehwere in the thread thart Zero could be 360..
Yes, I think 0 direction means that there is no weighting difference between front and back scatter, it still scatters the same amount.
Maybe translucency and transmittance does get added, I am not sure. Whatever algorithm is used, doesn't matter to the final color which color is in which slot, at least without using maps. They rendered exactly the same.
how those colors getting added (multiplied) did interest me - because i was able to eliminate a monochrom color in translucency OR base - complete..(must look into that again)...
we know we have problems with maps changing the colors slightly... aka a 220, 160, 140, ... on the slider is not always a 220, 160, 140 in a map.... that's another thing which is not clear to me.. Bug or wanted? i think a bug... or colorprofiles? hmm
Some backscatter testing. This is with an SSS direction of 0.5. Roughness works in about the opposite way as it does for specularity (counterintuitive at first but makes sense). Looks like a nice peach-fuzz effect may be possible but I'm leaving this off for testing until I get the base sss, translucency, and refraction right.
Bug, I think. The overpowering orange/red tint in SSS in 4.8 was also from DS handling maps wrong, it never happened with just mathematical colors. May even be the same problem and they only eliminated one part of it thinking the rest was correct.
glosiness backscattering
I use it on most of my skin settings.. but very "narrow" and low weight.... you can see way better where you drive light and what the parameters do when you set another color for backscatterring (switch of shared glossy inputs and you can set backscatter color)
i use a pink to see where it drives most saturation..then set it back to a color between skin and white. i am able to simulate a part of the peach fuzz backscatterring (chin contoures) and backscattering on nostril lines as example....could be better (maybe mapped)... but works.
Home from work finally. So I like the results I'm seeing. So what happens to these settings or how should one deviate from them when plugging in maps?
So that's how you get at the color setting! Clever. I'll try this out sometime.
I think most people plug the diffuse maps into Base Color and Translucency Color, and change the color to white. Probably the best setup is going to be a less saturated diffuse map with a much more saturated pinkish translucency map, but just normal diffuse maps are a good start to see what it looks like.
EDIT: If I plug the G3F maps into those settings with +0.5 SSS direction and adjust the gamma of the base color maps to 1.3, she comes out like this, so the maps give pretty similar results as the flat color. It looks a bit waxy though. I hear you're supposed to account for this by scattering the red light much more than blue and green, but I don't know how to do it with the DS shader.
Yea, I'll have to try that Agent. I had to laugh, feels like the old renders but a bit nicer... see below you'll laugh too!
One thing that I did notice besides her sunburnt face is that the body seems to lighten as you move lower.... weird effect. Wonder if it's one of those bugs from 4.8...
Yes, 4.8 handles maps and SSS very badly. It's a shame. I had to give up on 4.8 when I couldn't get rid of the yellow tint it kept introducing. I wonder what made her start to glow like that on her torso, super weird.
I zoomed out to see if it improved this issue. NOPE! YIKES!
I did change the Base Color Effect back to Scatter Only but I lost the nice red ears effects but the dramatic whitening as you move down the body is pretty crazy!
There is definitely something off...somewhere...but if you can figure out what it is, intentionally done, that would be a pretty cool effect.
Yea, I even uninstalled DS, rebooted the computer, reinstalled it.. same thing................
So true. One of the reasons I switched from doing most of my rendering in Modo Indie to Iray was because I struggled mightily to get the balance right in a shader built on the same model as the Arnold one. There are some great tutorials that explain it, but tweaking so many different maps became a nightmare. My results weren't bad—perhaps even as good as I get from Iray, but it was much more work to get there.
That could be backscattering. You can increase backscattering roughness to spread it more and reduce its weight.
It is a good idea to save even those "mistakes", trust me, you'll need that effect sooner or later.