Sun light indoor problem i-ray

Hi. Is there any way to put sun light under the celling?

The problem is that my room model consists of one peace and I can't remove celling or wall and light the room properly.

I am not expert in i-ray and this is just hobby I don't want amazing quality by tweaking every parameter and spend on it weeks. Just want good realistic result in short amount of time and my choice is sun light only but I don't know how to rotate it.

I mean I know about sun dial but it isn't give full control of amplitude. Anyone can explain me how set sunlight in right way with out this xyz coordinates, longitude etc?

Comments

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015

    You have a few options if you really want to use the sun, but I don't know if it will work for you. Because the sun will make serious shadows in that room. It will look like a room that is outdoor.

    HDR is typically better for indoor, most of the time. However you can use Sun if you want to go against the grain.(and if you are careful you can make it seem like a indoor shot, or maybe you want it to look outdoors)

    First, you can change the texture of the ceiling to transparent. Depends on if the object has a ceiling texture/surface. If not, you could send the model into hexagon or similar and flat out delete the ceiling.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015

    Adding to this, most programs that have a Sunlight, distance the sun an infinite distance away from the ground. So you can't lower it to be inside a house. Even if the sun has a visual gizmo, and you can move the gizmo, it won't change how it renders the sun. Sun/Directional lights are a very specific type of light. You can't control them the same way you control a point/spot/mesh light.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • edited August 2015

    When I said about sun light I meant (sun light only) which set on render settings, environment section. The problem is that with other kinds of environment (scene and sky or just sky dome) image become to dark or to bright but my PC very slow and to see result I must wait usually around 20-30 minutes before irratiation process starts that why i can't make a lot of tests.

    Thanks for your advices really appriciate it I will try and tell what I get. Thanks so much. Sun dial alow you control sun light only rotate it on 180 degrees horisontal and 90 degrees vertical if I understand the tool right. it isn't easy for me cause english isn't my first.

    Post edited by confiados_bea7a0dbf4 on
  • edited August 2015

    The model in what format I must import to hexagon that after deleting the roof all items in the room will be separate after exporting it back to daz?

    Post edited by confiados_bea7a0dbf4 on
  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 3,543

    Are you trying to get sunlight in through windows? If so put a spotlight outside the window, pointing in. If you jsut want to light the room, add spotlights inside.

    Not clear what you're trying to achieve.

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300
    edited August 2015

    As you surmise, any environment lighting -- sun-sky or dome -- will not penetrate walls or ceiling. It's a shame that not all models include a removable geometry for the ceiling. Not all models have large enough windows or doors to permit enough environment light for the scene.

    But there are are a couple of ways of dealing with it. 

    1. Double check the Scene tab to be sure ceiling is not a separately listed object. Expand All and look through. If you're not sure what a scene object does, click its eyaball icon. Youy might get lucky and find one for the ceiling. With the ceiling hidden the environment light will show through.

    2. Go to top view, and zoom out to see the entire top of the room. Go to the Surfaces tab, and with the Surfaces Selection tool, see if you can select the ceiling as a separate surface. If you can, be sure this surface (actually, do it for all of them) have been at least converted to Iray using the Iray Uber shader. Find the Cutout Opacity dial, and turn it to 0. Now when you do the render, the light from the environment will show.

    3. If the ceiling surface is not a separate material, another approach is to remove polys from it. This works depending on how the model was constructed. The basic steps are: Choose Tools->Geometry Editor. Click over the ceiling. Use the tool to drag over the polys you'd like to remove, right click, and choose Geometry-Visibility->Hide Selected Polygons. Once again, with the polys of the ceiling gone, light from the environment will come through.

    Of course all these methods will mean the ceiling is gone, and sky will render if the camera is facing upward. You can substitute a portion of the ceiling by adding a plane primitive, and applying a suitable Iray shader to it. This is how they do it on a movie set. The rooms have only partial ceilings.

    Post edited by Tobor on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015

    The model in what format I must import to hexagon that after deleting the roof all items in the room will be separate after exporting it back to daz?

    I would just send it to hexagon with the hexagon bridge. There is a button to do it, it handles scaling and all that. Then use the button in hexagon to send back to daz. Reason I would do it this way is because it would be super fast to remove the roof. Literally less than a minute. But the roof would really be gone...or you could just scale down all the verts/polys into the ceiling and make it into a morph that hides the ceiling and send that back.

    As mentioned earlier, the scene may have a ceiling surface you can disable a variety of ways inside of DS. I would check that first because its non-destructive. IF it already has a ceiling surface its really easy to disable. As Tobor mentioned, if it does not have a ceiling surface, you can make a ceiling surface group yourself. It's a minor chore in Daz, but its less destructive than the hexagon method. If you make a new surface for the ceiling you still physically have a ceiling you can use later. Also learning how to make your own surfaces will be useful later.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • If you want to remove parts of a model for Iray use a Section Plane - Create>New Iray Section Plane Node. This will create a new outline square item in the scene - although that is of finite size in use it is an infinite plane, anything on the camera side of it will be hidden and will let light through (you can tell it not to let light through, in which case it can be used to look into a closed space from outside without affecting the way the interior renders, but that isn't what tyou want).

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511

    If you want to remove parts of a model for Iray use a Section Plane - Create>New Iray Section Plane Node. This will create a new outline square item in the scene - although that is of finite size in use it is an infinite plane, anything on the camera side of it will be hidden and will let light through (you can tell it not to let light through, in which case it can be used to look into a closed space from outside without affecting the way the interior renders, but that isn't what tyou want).

    That does sound useful. Good to know.

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    The Section Pane is also good for cutting people in half, as in, "No, Mr. Bond, I want you to die!"

    It can be hard to visualize and position though. Takes a bit of experimentation.

  • OB 1OB 1 Posts: 9

    I mean I know about sun dial but it isn't give full control of amplitude. Anyone can explain me how set sunlight in right way with out this xyz coordinates, longitude etc?

    Maybe Render Presets>Iray>Sun Dial Set in your DAZ Studio Format content library?

    (Use the Sun Chine node)

  • Tobor said:

    The Section Pane is also good for cutting people in half, as in, "No, Mr. Bond, I want you to die!"

    It can be hard to visualize and position though. Takes a bit of experimentation.

    That has got to be one of my top favorite quotes from a James Bond movie! :-)

  • edited August 2015

    Are you trying to get sunlight in through windows? If so put a spotlight outside the window, pointing in. If you jsut want to light the room, add spotlights inside.

    I am trying light the room that all items will bright enought and that they will have good saturation. Better yes light throw the window for more realism.

    Thanks so much for advice.

     

    Tobor said:

    As you surmise, any environment lighting -- sun-sky or dome -- will not penetrate walls or ceiling. It's a shame that not all models include a removable geometry for the ceiling. Not all models have large enough windows or doors to permit enough environment light for the scene.

    But there are are a couple of ways of dealing with it. 

    1. Double check the Scene tab to be sure ceiling is not a separately listed object. Expand All and look through. If you're not sure what a scene object does, click its eyaball icon. Youy might get lucky and find one for the ceiling. With the ceiling hidden the environment light will show through.

    2. Go to top view, and zoom out to see the entire top of the room. Go to the Surfaces tab, and with the Surfaces Selection tool, see if you can select the ceiling as a separate surface. If you can, be sure this surface (actually, do it for all of them) have been at least converted to Iray using the Iray Uber shader. Find the Cutout Opacity dial, and turn it to 0. Now when you do the render, the light from the environment will show.

    3. If the ceiling surface is not a separate material, another approach is to remove polys from it. This works depending on how the model was constructed. The basic steps are: Choose Tools->Geometry Editor. Click over the ceiling. Use the tool to drag over the polys you'd like to remove, right click, and choose Geometry-Visibility->Hide Selected Polygons. Once again, with the polys of the ceiling gone, light from the environment will come through.

    Of course all these methods will mean the ceiling is gone, and sky will render if the camera is facing upward. You can substitute a portion of the ceiling by adding a plane primitive, and applying a suitable Iray shader to it. This is how they do it on a movie set. The rooms have only partial ceilings.

    Model don't have separate celling it only have removed back wall but I don't know how to move sun light cause I ithnk by sun dial tool it can be only rotate by x and y ordinates. My level of knowledge is so pitty I can't remove polys so I will try light it better. Thnaks for info really apreciate it.

    Tobor said:

     

     

    I would just send it to hexagon with the hexagon bridge. There is a button to do it, it handles scaling and all that. Then use the button in hexagon to send back to daz. Reason I would do it this way is because it would be super fast to remove the roof. Literally less than a minute. But the roof would really be gone...or you could just scale down all the verts/polys into the ceiling and make it into a morph that hides the ceiling and send that back.

    As mentioned earlier, the scene may have a ceiling surface you can disable a variety of ways inside of DS. I would check that first because its non-destructive. IF it already has a ceiling surface its really easy to disable. As Tobor mentioned, if it does not have a ceiling surface, you can make a ceiling surface group yourself. It's a minor chore in Daz, but its less destructive than the hexagon method. If you make a new surface for the ceiling you still physically have a ceiling you can use later. Also learning how to make your own surfaces will be useful later.

    Unfortunely I found it's pretty hard for my level of 3d only way to try different lighting. Anyway thanks for help.

     

    If you want to remove parts of a model for Iray use a Section Plane - Create>New Iray Section Plane Node. This will create a new outline square item in the scene - although that is of finite size in use it is an infinite plane, anything on the camera side of it will be hidden and will let light through (you can tell it not to let light through, in which case it can be used to look into a closed space from outside without affecting the way the interior renders, but that isn't what tyou want).

    Thanks for feedback. Not clearly got you. You are talking about iray node (square plane) which put under the roof? How it can remove celling?

     

    OB 1 said:

    I mean I know about sun dial but it isn't give full control of amplitude. Anyone can explain me how set sunlight in right way with out this xyz coordinates, longitude etc?

    Maybe Render Presets>Iray>Sun Dial Set in your DAZ Studio Format content library?

    (Use the Sun Chine node)

    Yes i know it but it isn't work good for me. By sun dial tool you can rotate light horisontal andvertical right? You can't move it or change brightness? i tryed diffrent angles but it still pretty dark on image, if I increase environment map intensity or environment it become brigter but render is very slow I I can't see the result clearly around 2-3 hours. Is it normal?

    I meant before I change the environment it's took 40-1.5 hours to be less grainy butnoe after two hours it's not even half complete.

    Does anyone know what depends of render speed? What kind of environment is faster? I have nvidia geforce gt 730 2gb but PC is really slow two cores, 4 gb ram. Is it posible speed up render somehow with out upgrade?

     

     

    Post edited by confiados_bea7a0dbf4 on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited August 2015

    That is a pretty modest configuration so the performance you are getting seems about right. Faster is when you have more light and simplier materials. So if you had a chair on a plane with no walls it would be way faster. Blocking all that light with walls slows down the rendering speed. Adding more lights within the walls would typically speed things up in your situation.

    Again, you can't make the sun behave unlike a sun. It's just not designed to work like a normal light because it is a very special type of light. So either light the interior with other lights, or you need to get rid of the roof.

    Out of the options, Richard's suggestion would be the easiest. Re-read the instruction and see if you get the idea.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • OB 1OB 1 Posts: 9
    edited August 2015

    Yes i know it but it isn't work good for me. By sun dial tool you can rotate light horisontal andvertical right?

    Hmm... Very simple: Parameters - Sun Dial - Sun Base - Sun Chain - Rotation - Elevation & Azimuth.

    Post edited by OB 1 on
  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,379

    Think about how sunlight coming through a window works in the real world, our eyes auto adjust other wise we wouldn't see most of the stuff in the room that isn't directly light by the sunlight, a camera needs to be adjusted manually by messing with the lens etc to achieve the same effect.

    In 3D you need to do the same thing with our cameras, I think it's some of the settings under tone mapping, just don't ask me what ones as I'm as much in the dark about what it all does as most around here.

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