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Another Content Library Issue, C8.5 to Poser to C8.5

DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,079
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

I can't find the morphs for a prop in the c8.5 content library even though they exist in Poser. I modeled a desk in the c8.5 vertex modeler, exported it as an OBJ, and imported it into Poser. I used 8.5 to create morphs to open and close the desk drawers and saved each as a separate OBJ file. In poser, I loaded the drawer morphs on the desk prop, and then saved the desk prop to the Poser library. In c8.5, I open the content library, find the desk prop, and load it. The prop loads fine, but I can't find the morphs to open the drawers. The morphs to open the drawers are there when the prop is loaded in Poser. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Comments

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    HI :)

    If you export the Desk, and one of each drawer,. then you can load those into poser and parent the drawers to the desk, then set the limit's on XYZ motion of the drawers,. then you'll have sliders for Opening / closing the drawers.

    Hope it helps :)

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,079
    edited December 1969

    Thanks 3DAGE. That definitely solves the desk prop. However, I guess I'm more interested in the larger issue. Is there a list of object attributes that behave differently when loaded in Poser, and when loaded in Carrara from the same runtime library? Is there some reason that prop morphs that work in Poser would not be available if loaded into Carrara 8.5? My intent is to create set pieces that will be available identically in Poser and Carrara. I want to use Poser to save poses/animations that fit the props when loaded in both programs. An animation of G2Simon sitting at a desk drinking a mug of coffee could be used in a business office, in a school classroom, police station, etc. Before I choose how to model a given prop, it would be good to know any differences between how the prop will behave in the two programs when loaded from the runtime library. Sorry to ramble, but I can envision encountering more wrinkles as I add new props with different features to my collection.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Hi :)

    Is there some reason that prop morphs that work in Poser would not be available

    Normally a morphed object should work the same in Carrara or DS, as it does in Poser.

    The main reason that I suggested parenting the drawers to the desk is that Morphs work by alter the position of a set of vertices on an object, and that's usually a single object,.. and the vertices of that object are all connected.
    Opening a drawer isn't an ideal situation to use Morphs to allow the user to animate them.

    This may be the reason that the model in Poser doesn't work as intended in Carrara, ..but normally a morphed object will work.

    I want to use Poser to save poses/animations that fit the props when loaded in both programs.

    you should be able to do that as long as the sizes of the props are the same, and you should be able to assemble in Poser,.. then use that in Carrara, and DS. it just depends on how you make it in poser,.

    Morphs should work on objects, ..but separate, or "Assembled" objects should ideally have animation controls.

    :)


  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    diomede64 said:
    I can't find the morphs for a prop in the c8.5 content library even though they exist in Poser. I modeled a desk in the c8.5 vertex modeler, exported it as an OBJ, and imported it into Poser. I used 8.5 to create morphs to open and close the desk drawers and saved each as a separate OBJ file. In poser, I loaded the drawer morphs on the desk prop, and then saved the desk prop to the Poser library. In c8.5, I open the content library, find the desk prop, and load it. The prop loads fine, but I can't find the morphs to open the drawers. The morphs to open the drawers are there when the prop is loaded in Poser. Am I looking in the wrong place?

    I know 3dage answered this question, but you ended up with more questions and I wasn't sure if there were some unaddressed items from here so...

    1. To open/close why use morphs instead of having the objects separate, rigging and setting appropriate parameters? A1: since you are wanting the same between both that isn't a good idea because Poser won't be able to use Carrara rigging. A2: maybe you can rig it in Poser? That looks to be 3dage's solution... but certainly (not being a Poser user) I have no idea of what is involved.

    2. Morphing objects and where are the morphs. Are you sure the morphs weren't there? In C8.5 there are two places morphs can appear. Generally they come up under the "Parameter" tab but sometimes they occupy a frame under the General tab. In a rigged object morphs for a part are always under Parameter but for an unrigged object they are under General. At least, that's what my memory says, YMMV :)

    3. Why did you add the morphs to the object in Poser instead of Carrara? Maybe this is another area of interoperability issues (I only use Carrara), but Carrara is good for creating morphs. Perhaps it would work better if you added them in Carrara? Just a thought.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Hi Thoromyr :)

    It would be nice if there was a direct way to make the Model (with morphs) in carrara, then transfer that into Poser or DS,
    but there isn't .. you need to export each model or morph, as an obj,. then add (import) those morphs in poser. (PITA)

    it's more of a limitation of the model formats, than a limitation of either program.

    In Poser, DS and Carrara, you can build an object with moveable parts,. without using Bones or rigging, just by parenting "the drawers", to the mains "desk",. then, you can limit the movement for those parented parts.

    You can then save that (Desk and drawers) as a single "prop" in poser,. since it has no bones it's still a prop.

    You're also quite right about looking in different areas of carrara for the morphs added in poser,. :)

  • thoromyrthoromyr Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    Hi Thoromyr :)

    It would be nice if there was a direct way to make the Model (with morphs) in carrara, then transfer that into Poser or DS,
    but there isn't .. you need to export each model or morph, as an obj,. then add (import) those morphs in poser. (PITA)

    it's more of a limitation of the model formats, than a limitation of either program.

    Ugh. Not even Collada supports that?

    3DAGE said:
    In Poser, DS and Carrara, you can build an object with moveable parts,. without using Bones or rigging, just by parenting "the drawers", to the mains "desk",. then, you can limit the movement for those parented parts.

    You can then save that (Desk and drawers) as a single "prop" in poser,. since it has no bones it's still a prop.

    What props I've done with moving parts I did with rigging, but I can see how it'd be handy to do that just for parented objects. I need to remember to remember that.

    You're also quite right about looking in different areas of carrara for the morphs added in poser,. :)

    That one (where are the morphs!) has bitten me enough that I remember it pretty well now :)

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,079
    edited December 1969

    Thanks all. I have had no problem creating a morphable prop in Carrara or in Poser. Kudos to both program teams. Also, opening a Poser runtime library through Carrara's content tab in the browser works well (even better than in Poser itself). However, I have come across a couple of circumstances where I have modeled the elements of a prop primarily in C8.5 and made some finishing touch in Poser, then saved the prop to Poser's runtime library. In a couple of unusual cases, the resulting prop is behaving slightly differently when loaded into C8.5 from the content runtime library. Since they are different programs, some of this is to be expected. It would be nice to identify and catalogue the circumstances, especially since it seems pretty easy to work around the problem once it is known. So far? Before, I found that a prop parented to a poser primitive will behave differently in Poser than in Carrara. Now, it appears that a prop made of a single poly mesh, with no grouping, with morphs loaded in Poser, may not display the morphs in C8.5. Not catastrophic, but it seems odd (assuming I didn't mess up somehow).

  • blindmanblindman Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    I created a morph for V4 in poser 8. If I load the character from the mapped runtime in Carrara pro 8.5 the dial appears but the morph doesnt work.

    How ever if I use Carrara pro 8. ( the retail version) of 8 under the same circumstances the morph loads and works perfectly.

    The point being made isnt to find a way round the problem in 8.5 but to solve it

  • blindmanblindman Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    blindman said:
    I created a morph for V4 in poser 8. If I load the character from the mapped runtime in Carrara pro 8.5 the dial appears but the morph doesnt work.

    How ever if I use Carrara pro 8. ( the retail version) of 8 under the same circumstances the morph loads and works perfectly.

    The point being made isnt to find a way round the problem in 8.5 but to solve it

    If you cant help dont, I you can post

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Hi Blindman

    Welcome :)

    Have you reported this issue in the Bug tracker for the 8.5 beta version.
    You need to create a new account name and password for the Mantis Bug tracker, since it's a different web-site from the Daz 3D store and forums.

    You can upload images and files which cause problems in C8.5 and the developers can have a look to see what's causing it.

    I don't think anyone is trying to suggest using a "workaround" to avoid an issue, or problems in the 8.5 Beta,.

    My advice is that using Morphs is not the best method of animating this type of object either in Poser, or any other software

    Your issue is different since it's a Figure model, and Not a custom built Prop.
    If you've made a Morph in V4, then it should work in Carrara, if it works in Poser and in Daz Studio.
    so, if you can post a Bug report in the tracker, then someone can look at it and see why there's an issue.

    Hope it helps :)

  • blindmanblindman Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE

    I agree with your sentiment.
    But the issue was lost morphs, be it prop or figure. The reason I use 8.5 is to beta test. I already report bugs, and it's the reason I run version 8 along side 8.5 as a base line for testing 8.5.

    I use the forum to check issue's I find before submitting a bug report.

    There are two distinct streams here.

    Posts for help on "how to" not everyone can figure stuff out from the help files, and sometimes it's just plain easier to ask people who know how. Then Yahoo let the opinions on how to do it flow, And I applaude each and everyone that does.

    The second stream is stuff that should work and doesnt, " bugs or potential bugs"
    If someone asks for help on a potential bug, then the helpfull thing to do is the following
    If it isnt a bug just a lack of knowlage or understanding. post the solution
    If it is a bug, do what you have rightly suggested and advise the poster to report it in mantis.

    Offering workarounds for what might be a bug is neither helpful or productive for the development of 8.5
    I posted my comments to widen the potential proplem with the aparent loss of morphs and I wasnt critisizing peoples helpfulness just thier focus. A question was asked and no one actually gave an answer.
    The good thing here is that we have identifed a wider issue that may effect both props and figures

  • blindmanblindman Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    blindman said:
    3DAGE

    I agree with your sentiment.
    But the issue was lost morphs, be it prop or figure. The reason I use 8.5 is to beta test. I already report bugs, and it's the reason I run version 8 along side 8.5 as a base line for testing 8.5.

    I use the forum to check issue's I find before submitting a bug report.

    There are two distinct streams here.

    Posts for help on "how to" not everyone can figure stuff out from the help files, and sometimes it's just plain easier to ask people who know how. Then Yahoo let the opinions on how to do it flow, And I applaude each and everyone that does.

    The second stream is stuff that should work and doesnt, " bugs or potential bugs"
    If someone asks for help on a potential bug, then the helpfull thing to do is the following
    If it isnt a bug just a lack of knowlage or understanding. post the solution
    If it is a bug, do what you have rightly suggested and advise the poster to report it in mantis.

    Offering workarounds for what might be a bug is neither helpful or productive for the development of 8.5
    I posted my comments to widen the potential proplem with the aparent loss of morphs and I wasnt critisizing peoples helpfulness just thier focus. A question was asked and no one actually gave an answer.
    The good thing here is that we have identifed a wider issue that may effect both props and figures

    The statement I dont know is the beginning of wisdom
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    HI Blindman :)

    I'm sorry if my advice came across as the suggestion that someone should "workaround" an issue with the beta version, it was NOT intended that way, but after re-reading this , I can see how it could be perceived that way.

    the real advice was that using morphs to animate drawers on a desk,.. is the wrong way to go.

    If the bug / issue you have with V4, has been reported, then the developers can deal with it.

    Any issues that are repeatable / reproducible should be reported.

    I'm old enough to realise that I still have much to learn, .. to err is human.

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