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Iray Environment Map and Environment Intensity sliders. What's the difference?

3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
edited November 2015 in Daz Studio Discussion

Simply that.

The Iray "Environment Map" and "Environment Intensity" sliders under DS4.8 - Render > Render Settings > Editor > NVIDIA Iray.

What's the difference?

As far as I can see from playing they both control the intensity of both backdrop (dome) image and lighting.

 

Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
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Comments

  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    There may be some duplication in effect if you're using a map, but remember that you can apply the dome without a map. No map, no Environment Map strength setting. You'd still want a way to control the strength of the environment. When used without a map, the lighting can be from the sun or a node substituting as the sun.

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
    edited November 2015

    Thanks. Your comments made me look at a few other things.

    The "Environment Mode" options are Dome And Scene, Dome Only, Sun-Sky Only, Scene Only.

    - "Environment Intensity" appears with any of these four options selected

    - "Draw Dome" appears for all except 'Scene Only'

    - "Environment Map" only appears for the options with a dome (Dome And Scene, Dome Only)

    In either of the two dome modes that let me see "Environment Map", setting either "Environment Intensity" or "Environment Map" slider to zero gives me a totally black render, no light.

    If I set the "Environment Map" image to 'None' in either of the two dome modes the render looks the same as "Sun-Sky Only" (except the latter also renders a sun)

    In "Scene Only" mode I get all my props figures rendering black against a transparent background.

     

    So the "Environment Intensity" slider seems to be controlling the 'sky' lighting, which makes sense (but it's not called "Sky Intensity", so I'd guess there's something more to it?)

    And the "Environment Map" slider seems to be controlling the intensity of the lighting from the map. That makes perfect sense. :)

     

    But I'm now puzzled that the "Environment Intensity" or "Environment Map" aren't additive. From my 'set either to zero' test they appear to be multiplicative.

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,631
    edited November 2015

    what i miss is setting a sun dial with environment map on

    and how do i get the dome sharp in interactive mode ?

    its always blurry for me

    photoreal is fine

    with sun sky on

    you can draw dome but no dome map ?

    and you have environment intensity what for ?

    Post edited by Ruphuss on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
    edited November 2015

    Definitely looks like when you're using an Environment Map image the slider values for Environment Map and Environment Intensity are multiplied together.

    Using the three combinations below the renders look identical to me:

    Environment Map = 1.0   and   Environment Intensity =1.0

    Environment Map = 0.1   and   Environment Intensity =10.0

    Environment Map = 50.0   and   Environment Intensity =0.02

    (maybe the Environment Map slider is spurious, and is simply there because the DS interface doesn't have a widget for an image map without a slider? If that's the case then keeping it set to 1.0 seems logical. Environment Intensity then genuinely controls the intensity of the environmental lighting in all four modes, i.e.: the intensity of the lighting from the map in the 'Dome Only and 'Dome And Scene' modes; the intensity of the sky lighting in 'Sun-Sky Only' mode; and the intensity of ??? in 'Scene Only' mode)

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
    edited November 2015
    Ruphuss said:
    ...you can draw dome but no dome map ?

    and you have environment intensity what for ?

    I guess that in 'Sun-Sky Only' mode the environment intensity is controlling the overall brightness of the lighting from the sky, and that you can adjust the intensity of the lighting from the sun independently ?

    But then with 'Sun-Sky Only' mode you also get a 'SS Multiplier' slider ?

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,440
    edited November 2015

    I have no idea why this slider is there under Image Map and it does tend to confuse the issue since there is an Environment Intensity that works in all modes of Environmental Lighting.

     

     2 is the default and if you experiment with a range of HDRI images you will see 2 produces an accurate representation of the image at the default Tone Mapping settings. I believe 2 to be the correct option.

     

    The Environment Intensity slider controls both sun and sky in Sun/Sky mode, it does not control one independently of the other.  There are a variety of controls under Sun/Sky, none of the appear to alone you to independently control the intensity of either Sun or Sky.

    Post edited by evilded777 on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
    edited November 2015

    Agreed on the 2.0 for HDR - the default Environment Map image is an HDR (DTHDR_RuinsB-500.hdr) and the slider's set at 2.0, so I'd guess this is the correct value (or at least a good value) for any HDR image with the default render settings. However, if you're using an LDR image (JPG) it may not be correct - further experimentation required.

    Regarding Sun/Sky I'd assumed that SS Sun Disk Intensity would just control the lighting from the sun, but I think I may have misunderstood what this control does? I also think I recall reading somewhere that you can somehow link a DAZ Distant Light to the sun (in which case the intensity control on that would just do the sun), but I can't find the link... {edit: found it, from CypherFox on the "Tips & Tricks for Iray for newbies......" thread here - http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/778022/#Comment_778022, but it seems to simply be a way to set the position of the SS sun to match that of the light.}

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • ConnaticConnatic Posts: 279

    I really like the lighting using the Sun-Sky Only.  Since the Dome Mode is active when you choose Sun-Sky Only Environment Mode, how do you add an imagemap or shader onto the Infinite Sphere or the Finite Sphere, and also to the Ground if that option is chosen?  There is a slider for Ground texture scale, but no obvious way of adding anything but a solid color to the Ground.  

    I have been able to change the altitude of the solid-clored Ground by choosing Manual.  It seems that since there is a scale, and all 3 dimensions of translation, that there should be an option to texture the Ground.  Why scale or move a blank colored ground in x or z axis?  There must be a way to do this, I simply am unable to find it.

    Ideally I would like to use the Sun from Sun-Sky Only PLUS a dome with hdri image for the background, plus add some ambient light from the dome.

    My work-around is to render Sun-Sky Only with no Dome visible, then do a second render with a dome-based sky and ground, then composite the 2 images.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,440
    Connatic said:

    I really like the lighting using the Sun-Sky Only.  Since the Dome Mode is active when you choose Sun-Sky Only Environment Mode, how do you add an imagemap or shader onto the Infinite Sphere or the Finite Sphere, and also to the Ground if that option is chosen?  There is a slider for Ground texture scale, but no obvious way of adding anything but a solid color to the Ground.  

    I have been able to change the altitude of the solid-clored Ground by choosing Manual.  It seems that since there is a scale, and all 3 dimensions of translation, that there should be an option to texture the Ground.  Why scale or move a blank colored ground in x or z axis?  There must be a way to do this, I simply am unable to find it.

    Ideally I would like to use the Sun from Sun-Sky Only PLUS a dome with hdri image for the background, plus add some ambient light from the dome.

    My work-around is to render Sun-Sky Only with no Dome visible, then do a second render with a dome-based sky and ground, then composite the 2 images.

    Connatic you can not use both an HDRI image doame and Sun-Sky, they do not work together.

    Your solution is about the best you are going to get

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,440
    3dcheapskate said:

    Agreed on the 2.0 for HDR - the default Environment Map image is an HDR (DTHDR_RuinsB-500.hdr) and the slider's set at 2.0, so I'd guess this is the correct value (or at least a good value) for any HDR image with the default render settings. However, if you're using an LDR image (JPG) it may not be correct - further experimentation required.

    Regarding Sun/Sky I'd assumed that SS Sun Disk Intensity would just control the lighting from the sun, but I think I may have misunderstood what this control does? I also think I recall reading somewhere that you can somehow link a DAZ Distant Light to the sun (in which case the intensity control on that would just do the sun), but I can't find the link...

    Sun Disk Intensity controls the APPEARANCE of the visbile sun disk and the appearnace only, it does not actually govern the intensity of the light.

    The thing about linking a Distant Light to the sun... I'm not sure the point of that.  You have to disable the light of the distant light or else you effectively have two suns.  It does allow you to position the sun in the old fashioned way, looking through the distant light.  What it does not do is actually make the Distant Light control the Sun Sky light in any way other than positioning,  If you want to do it, just add a distant light to the scene, remove any Environment Map image to so you get the SS Sun Node and set the distant light there as the node.

     

    distantLightSun.JPG
    300 x 522 - 33K
  • ConnaticConnatic Posts: 279

    I have controlled the Sun-Sky light by adding a camera and choosing that in SS Sun Node.

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
    evilded777 said:
    ...Sun Disk Intensity controls the APPEARANCE of the visbile sun disk and the appearnace only, it does not actually govern the intensity of the light...

    After I realized my mistake I thought that might be the case - thanks for confirmation.

     

    evilded777 said:

    ...The thing about linking a Distant Light to the sun... I'm not sure the point of that.  You have to disable the light of the distant light or else you effectively have two suns.  It does allow you to position the sun in the old fashioned way, looking through the distant light.  What it does not do is actually make the Distant Light control the Sun Sky light in any way other than positioning,  If you want to do it, just add a distant light to the scene, remove any Environment Map image to so you get the SS Sun Node and set the distant light there as the node.

    I found the link I was thinking of (link added to my previous post) - it's basically saying what you've just said. So I recalled wrongly  :)

     

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    For me,, I usually use Null,  I first used actuall distant light, but after all there seems no meaning to use it,,

    the distant light direction ,(rotation ) or intenisty or templature perfectly removed, and overwritten by Sun controll in render setting > eniroment,,

    sun (the null) emit light to the world center. as default,  then If I tweak Dome orientation, it change with the Dome,,.

    (in the scene, I keep the null position, but actually light direction change with Dome controll,,)

     

    Then,,,,,  my question is , is there way to use spherical background with this DS offered sun-node.

    because if it can,, I may simply controll main Distant light by easy Sun-node, and adjust position which may fit to back ground image.

    I hope to change Sun-sky image which I want,,, Is there good way? 

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
    edited November 2015
    Connatic said:

    I really like the lighting using the Sun-Sky Only.  Since the Dome Mode is active when you choose Sun-Sky Only Environment Mode, how do you add an imagemap or shader onto the Infinite Sphere or the Finite Sphere, and also to the Ground if that option is chosen?  There is a slider for Ground texture scale, but no obvious way of adding anything but a solid color to the Ground.  

    I have been able to change the altitude of the solid-clored Ground by choosing Manual.  It seems that since there is a scale, and all 3 dimensions of translation, that there should be an option to texture the Ground.  Why scale or move a blank colored ground in x or z axis?  There must be a way to do this, I simply am unable to find it.

    Ideally I would like to use the Sun from Sun-Sky Only PLUS a dome with hdri image for the background, plus add some ambient light from the dome.

    My work-around is to render Sun-Sky Only with no Dome visible, then do a second render with a dome-based sky and ground, then composite the 2 images.

    I haven't really played with the Sun-Sky Only dome mode, but I'd guess from the available render settings under Environment > Dome that the 'sky' part is procedurally generated (for want of a better phrase) based on the sun azimuth and elevation. And I guess this generated sky is what's put onto the 'Iray built-in'* dome, which is probably why there's no way to use an image map for that.

    *added the 'Iray built-in' bit because I just saw Fishtales comment below. Does the Worldbase dome use a separate dome prop ?

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,045
    edited November 2015
    evilded777 said:
    Connatic said:

    I really like the lighting using the Sun-Sky Only.  Since the Dome Mode is active when you choose Sun-Sky Only Environment Mode, how do you add an imagemap or shader onto the Infinite Sphere or the Finite Sphere, and also to the Ground if that option is chosen?  There is a slider for Ground texture scale, but no obvious way of adding anything but a solid color to the Ground.  

    I have been able to change the altitude of the solid-clored Ground by choosing Manual.  It seems that since there is a scale, and all 3 dimensions of translation, that there should be an option to texture the Ground.  Why scale or move a blank colored ground in x or z axis?  There must be a way to do this, I simply am unable to find it.

    Ideally I would like to use the Sun from Sun-Sky Only PLUS a dome with hdri image for the background, plus add some ambient light from the dome.

    My work-around is to render Sun-Sky Only with no Dome visible, then do a second render with a dome-based sky and ground, then composite the 2 images.

    Connatic you can not use both an HDRI image doame and Sun-Sky, they do not work together.

    Your solution is about the best you are going to get

    You can. I have used the Worldbase dome, among others, with both Sun and sky only and Dome and Scene, both work but give a different light. The original renders of this scene were with Dome and Scene and I did this one using Sky and Sun and it worked fine.

     

    friend-or-foe-dome-test-001.jpg
    1200 x 800 - 1M
    Post edited by Fishtales on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2015

    I feel,, the tiny dots of image, is happend because you use Worldbase dome sphere, then it intersect somehow,

     emittion of Sun or HDRI (used for iray Dome) ,.  do not you feel you get more clean render, when you just use the World base

    back sphere image as Sun Dome backgoround,  (even though it is not high range HDRI,,, it can emit light and can use as background too,,)

    because I have seen, same dot, when I use sphere for background image,(I  needed to set image as emiisiont to use it

    as backgoround)  then use with Iray-Dome and HDRI light source.

    Though I do not know clearl, what approach is best,, now when I use these background dome products. (most of them offered for 3delight render, )

     

     

     

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,045
    edited November 2015
    evilded777 said:
    Connatic said:

    I really like the lighting using the Sun-Sky Only.  Since the Dome Mode is active when you choose Sun-Sky Only Environment Mode, how do you add an imagemap or shader onto the Infinite Sphere or the Finite Sphere, and also to the Ground if that option is chosen?  There is a slider for Ground texture scale, but no obvious way of adding anything but a solid color to the Ground.  

    I have been able to change the altitude of the solid-clored Ground by choosing Manual.  It seems that since there is a scale, and all 3 dimensions of translation, that there should be an option to texture the Ground.  Why scale or move a blank colored ground in x or z axis?  There must be a way to do this, I simply am unable to find it.

    Ideally I would like to use the Sun from Sun-Sky Only PLUS a dome with hdri image for the background, plus add some ambient light from the dome.

    My work-around is to render Sun-Sky Only with no Dome visible, then do a second render with a dome-based sky and ground, then composite the 2 images.

    Connatic you can not use both an HDRI image doame and Sun-Sky, they do not work together.

    Your solution is about the best you are going to get

    You can. I have used the Worldbase dome, among others, with both Sun and sky only and Dome and Scene, both work but give a different light. The original renders of this scene were with Dome and Scene and I did this one using Sky and Sun and it worked fine.

     

     

    kitakoredaz said:

    I feel,, the tiny dots of image, is happend because you use Worldbase dome sphere, then it intersect somehow,

     emittion of Sun or HDRI (used for iray Dome) ,.  do not you feel you get more clean render, when you just use the World base

    back sphere image as Sun Dome backgoround,  (even though it is not high range HDRI,,, it can emit light and can use as background too,,)

    because I have seen, same dot, when I use sphere for background image,(I  needed to set image as emiisiont to use it

    as backgoround)  then use with Iray-Dome and HDRI light source.

    Though I do not know clearl, what approach is best,, now when I use these background dome products. (most of them offered for 3delight render, )

     

     

     

    The dots you see is because I only ran the render for a few minutes to check that it would work. I only have CPU and the original render took about 25 hours and I wasn't waiting that long smiley

    This is the full render but using Dome and Scene.

    celtic-hall-snow-004.jpg
    1200 x 800 - 676K
    Post edited by Fishtales on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2015

    Oh,, it is actually clean and beautiful,, ^^

    how you set each map ?  when you set sun-and sky only, you do not set draw dome?  then set sun postion with the image?

    can controll the sun intensity too? 

    (and I really feel,, yours (who use CPU then make good iray rander,,) have strong will,,,, I simply give up, when I first use CPU

    for iray render ^^;;  I  finally  kick my deXX pc)

     

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,045
    kitakoredaz said:

    Oh,, it is actually clean and beautiful,, ^^

    how you set each map ?  when you set sun-and sky only, you do not set draw dome?  then set sun postion with the image?

    can controll the sun intensity too? 

    (and I really feel,, yours (who use CPU then make good iray rander,,) have strong will,,,, I simply give up, when I first use CPU

    for iray render ^^;;  I  finally  kick my deXX pc)

     

    The original with dome and scene above is the same scene as the 'bad' one with sky and sun only, that was the only difference other than moving the sun position settings, date and time; to get the sun somewhere in the same position as the light in the original. Draw Dome is on in both.

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,689
    edited November 2015
    Fishtales said:
    kitakoredaz said:

    Oh,, it is actually clean and beautiful,, ^^

    how you set each map ?  when you set sun-and sky only, you do not set draw dome?  then set sun postion with the image?

    can controll the sun intensity too? 

    (and I really feel,, yours (who use CPU then make good iray rander,,) have strong will,,,, I simply give up, when I first use CPU

    for iray render ^^;;  I  finally  kick my deXX pc)

     

    The original with dome and scene above is the same scene as the 'bad' one with sky and sun only, that was the only difference other than moving the sun position settings, date and time; to get the sun somewhere in the same position as the light in the original. Draw Dome is on in both.

    Interesting. So if I understand correctly the sky in your 'Sun/Sky Only' environment mode render is NOT the sky from the Iray render settings 'dome' (Draw Dome = On), which I assume wouldn't have any clouds. The sky we see in your render is the sky that's mapped onto a sphere/dome geometry WITHIN the scene - you specifically mentioned the Worldbase dome, and you said you've used others too?

    So if your whole scene is enclosed within a geometry sphere, I'm wondering how the light from the Iray sun/sky illuminates it? In Poser Firefly an all-enclosing geometry sphere can be set to 'not cast shadows', and in DS 3Delight there's something similar (although I can't recall exactly what, even though I use it for my worldball). But in DS Iray a separate geometry sphere always seems to block the light.

     

    {Edited an hour or so after posting): I just did a simple test using the 'emission' surface settings of the Iray Uber Base shader on all all-enclosing sphere geometry (i.e. a separate, physical dome). This seems to illuminate everything inside the sphere and give me a backdrop, but it also seems to completely block the lighting from outside the sphere, i.e. the Iray render settings dome stuff and any distant lights.}

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2015

    >3dcheapskate,  about your simple test,,,  yes,, then  I set the innner sphere ,  shader as  transmission ,

      (reflact as specular ior = 1.0 ), and set high resolution jpeg as  emittion  color, adjust the Illuminance  to work as background.  

    after that,  I use iray infinite dome with HDRI for real emittion.)  ,then  the outer infinity dome light can path through too. but somehow blur

    can not keep good contrast,, ^^;

     

     I feel,, the problem is,, the axis of  iray Dome and primiitive sphere actually  not much at all ,,,  you can test it as infinit dome then set scale small, and add sphere then set same image map, and compare,,  I test with mirroer image, filip normal etc,, but after all the axis is different .(not simple 90, 180 etc..)

    ,,. then need manually adjust dome or sphere too.   my conclusion is,, it just take time but not get effect which I want,,,

    I may test with Sun sky only ,and my emittion sphere  too ^^; but not expect much.

     

    then I find this topic,,by google serch now,,, , maybe it seems what I serched  correctly use SIBL package,,

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54158/iray-tips-and-tricks

     

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    my simple (not success) test is like that,, I set sphere, then flip normal (though It may need not), and add emission shader, and set emiission color, high resolution jpeg image. then set parameter like my pic1 with scene only. (no iray Dome light) to check clear Dome light emission, use default low resolution HDRI (for emission only use,,) it is pic2, now you can see, dome light pass through and add more light by default low HDRI . Actually I used same HDRI map included in SIBL set, but as I mentioned the axis is perfectly different, then the emitted light color by DOME not fit the background sphere image. need many tweaking , (to adjust it correctly, with iray dome, is difficulut,,even though I set finit dome, and adjust scale,, hope someone , tell me correct value for each rotation ^^;) maybe I can adjust light intensity, and image contrast etc,, but not feel it succeed. I am thinking,,, if it seems work better, I use two sphere for HDRI, and high reso jpeg, and not use iray-dome,, now,, .. maybe I will test it too.
    envbg1.PNG
    1339 x 733 - 490K
    sceneonly.PNG
    998 x 631 - 349K
    DomeandScene.PNG
    1062 x 705 - 258K
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,045
    kitakoredaz said:
    my simple (not success) test is like that,, I set sphere, then flip normal (though It may need not), and add emission shader, and set emiission color, high resolution jpeg image. then set parameter like my pic1 with scene only. (no iray Dome light) to check clear Dome light emission, use default low resolution HDRI (for emission only use,,) it is pic2, now you can see, dome light pass through and add more light by default low HDRI . Actually I used same HDRI map included in SIBL set, but as I mentioned the axis is perfectly different, then the emitted light color by DOME not fit the background sphere image. need many tweaking , (to adjust it correctly, with iray dome, is difficulut,,even though I set finit dome, and adjust scale,, hope someone , tell me correct value for each rotation ^^;) maybe I can adjust light intensity, and image contrast etc,, but not feel it succeed. I am thinking,,, if it seems work better, I use two sphere for HDRI, and high reso jpeg, and not use iray-dome,, now,, .. maybe I will test it too.

    If I am looking at these correctly then in the last image what you have is double the light coming from two sources, the dome and the iray sky dome. Have you tried using Tone Mapping to compensate for the extra light?

    This image uses the Overpass sIBL images from the site you linked to. The light from it is 'flat' i.e. no sun, so the shadows are indistinct. I moved the dome light position in the dome in the 'Z' axis to move the light source that gave a better shadow. The second image uses the same HDRI but I have rotated the ground so that it looks as if there has been a landslide and in the third I added DOF to the camera so that only the figures are sharp.

     

    road-block-i-002.jpg
    1280 x 960 - 819K
    road-block-i-003.jpg
    1280 x 960 - 910K
    road-block-i-005.jpg
    1280 x 960 - 655K
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,045
    edited November 2015
    3dcheapskate said:
    Fishtales said:
    kitakoredaz said:

    Oh,, it is actually clean and beautiful,, ^^

    how you set each map ?  when you set sun-and sky only, you do not set draw dome?  then set sun postion with the image?

    can controll the sun intensity too? 

    (and I really feel,, yours (who use CPU then make good iray rander,,) have strong will,,,, I simply give up, when I first use CPU

    for iray render ^^;;  I  finally  kick my deXX pc)

     

    The original with dome and scene above is the same scene as the 'bad' one with sky and sun only, that was the only difference other than moving the sun position settings, date and time; to get the sun somewhere in the same position as the light in the original. Draw Dome is on in both.

    Interesting. So if I understand correctly the sky in your 'Sun/Sky Only' environment mode render is NOT the sky from the Iray render settings 'dome' (Draw Dome = On), which I assume wouldn't have any clouds. The sky we see in your render is the sky that's mapped onto a sphere/dome geometry WITHIN the scene - you specifically mentioned the Worldbase dome, and you said you've used others too?

    So if your whole scene is enclosed within a geometry sphere, I'm wondering how the light from the Iray sun/sky illuminates it? In Poser Firefly an all-enclosing geometry sphere can be set to 'not cast shadows', and in DS 3Delight there's something similar (although I can't recall exactly what, even though I use it for my worldball). But in DS Iray a separate geometry sphere always seems to block the light.

     

    {Edited an hour or so after posting): I just did a simple test using the 'emission' surface settings of the Iray Uber Base shader on all all-enclosing sphere geometry (i.e. a separate, physical dome). This seems to illuminate everything inside the sphere and give me a backdrop, but it also seems to completely block the lighting from outside the sphere, i.e. the Iray render settings dome stuff and any distant lights.}

    I let the render run and here it is, 20 hours later smiley I have also attached screen shots showing the items used and the settings.

     

    friend-or-foe-dome-test-002.jpg
    1200 x 800 - 746K
    friend-or-foe-dome-settings-001.jpg
    1364 x 590 - 246K
    friend-or-foe-dome-settings-002.jpg
    1014 x 617 - 246K
    Post edited by Fishtales on
  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2015

    Hi,Fishlates , yes, I think  "the light coming from two sources, the dome and the iray sky dome" for test Dome light can pass through my emission backgorund sphere. 

    Then,,  I may not use the default  Dome light source image, with my backgorund sphere  usually , then as you tried,   I change iray Dome map to the low  HDRI in same sIBL sets. (I use it intentionally)

    then I udnerstand,,  the angle of light and color can not fit for my bg (emittion) sphere image.

     

    And  I may tweak tone mapping, (actually think it too,,   but untill it, I hoped to test with iray Sun nodes and bg sphere. to see, how "Sun light only"can path through and add emit.

    I could controll sun postion, and visual,, it seems good,,, but  I  found somehow strange white area  as if there is some volume ,, ,, and now feel, there is  problem for my setting,, ><;

    like my added pic. I do not know, what cause the white block ,,,(but should be caused by my env_sphere and sun-node)

    1 there is only back ground image sun.   

    2  use Sun node with draw dome.  I adjust postion with dome rotation. and visulaity , (hallo etc,,) but there is  white blocked ? volume

    And thanks, to show your setting, I may try it  with other more clear sun direction  sIBL set,,, .. smiley

     

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  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,440
    3dcheapskate said:
     
    Fishtales said:
    evilded777 said:
    Connatic said:

    I really like the lighting using the Sun-Sky Only.  Since the Dome Mode is active when you choose Sun-Sky Only Environment Mode, how do you add an imagemap or shader onto the Infinite Sphere or the Finite Sphere, and also to the Ground if that option is chosen?  There is a slider for Ground texture scale, but no obvious way of adding anything but a solid color to the Ground.  

    I have been able to change the altitude of the solid-clored Ground by choosing Manual.  It seems that since there is a scale, and all 3 dimensions of translation, that there should be an option to texture the Ground.  Why scale or move a blank colored ground in x or z axis?  There must be a way to do this, I simply am unable to find it.

    Ideally I would like to use the Sun from Sun-Sky Only PLUS a dome with hdri image for the background, plus add some ambient light from the dome.

    My work-around is to render Sun-Sky Only with no Dome visible, then do a second render with a dome-based sky and ground, then composite the 2 images.

    Connatic you can not use both an HDRI image doame and Sun-Sky, they do not work together.

    Your solution is about the best you are going to get

    You can. I have used the Worldbase dome, among others, with both Sun and sky only and Dome and Scene, both work but give a different light. The original renders of this scene were with Dome and Scene and I did this one using Sky and Sun and it worked fine.

     

    So basically, what you are saying is: the Sun-Sky light is able to penetrate the mesh of the dome?

    Besides being a completely different example from what I was discussing (the inability to use the Iray HDRI "dome" and the Iray Sun Sky light simultaneously), I find your position to be highly dubious.

     

     

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,045
    evilded777 said:
    3dcheapskate said:
     

    So basically, what you are saying is: the Sun-Sky light is able to penetrate the mesh of the dome?

    Besides being a completely different example from what I was discussing (the inability to use the Iray HDRI "dome" and the Iray Sun Sky light simultaneously), I find your position to be highly dubious.

     

     

    It does because the dome becomes transparent.

    You didn't say that in your original post. What you said was that using the Sky and Sun with 'a' dome wouldn't work not that using Sky and Sun with the 'Iray' Dome, which you is correct, doesn't work. What does work is Sky and Sun with any other dome with a an image on it with the settings I posted.

    This image uses Skydome, Sun and Sky and an image from Dreamlight's In The Bed, Summer Sky plugged into the Skydome. The second image shows the content, viewport set to Iray and the settings for the Skydome. Lighting is from Sky and Sun.

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  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2015

    1 Sun-Sky light  (or iray dome enviroment light with image)  is able to penetrate the mesh of the dome (made by user)  ?

    Yes, but may need tweaking and adjusting , .  then Fishlates  show me the good one example. 

     

    2  Using  Iray HDRI dome with enviroment light map (background too) ,  and use Sun Sky Light simulatneously,,  

    No.  so that evilded777 is right as your meaning.　

    But if 1 work well,, we can use it as substitute way of 2 to get same effect  if we need it , then talking the way.  I think .

    "Connatic" said,

    "Ideally I would like to use the Sun from Sun-Sky Only PLUS a dome with hdri image for the background, plus add some ambient light from the dome"

    it is what I hoped about iray too. then we may need not  achieve it only by iray dome , then hope to find the best easy but but stable  way if there is.

    ==========

    then It seems off topic, but Sun disc  intensity, scale  controll Iray generated gorund shadow contrast  too.

     as for me it is somehow  interesting.  because Actual sun light intensity  not  controlled by these parameters,,..

    maybe this  shadow is just fake?

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    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,045

    This image uses the Yosemite 10 Skydome with Sun and Sky Only. I had a lot of trial and error until I got the Iray sun to match the position of the Yosemite sun in the image smiley I have also attached an image of the settings.

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  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    Ah I remember,, I have it ^^; (though I farastrated before,, because the product HDRI  image is so good,

    but the Uber Enviroment shpere actually have problem about axis to generate light ,  and back ground, long time,,,but there seems no man

    who can correct it and offer as new Uber Enviroment light set,,   I simply dislike it then not use most of HDRI for DAZ 3delght,,

     (not product, or not Uber Enviroment, but why there is problem we clear  understand, but need to  remain long time,,)

     

    Now I can use them with iray  more correctly \ ^^ /  thanks iray dome!

    (but why  iray dome axis not fit with hand-made sphere ,as default ^^;?  it depend   how use wolrd cordinate each aprication ,and iray?)

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