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Rendering more realistic eyes in IRay

pdspds Posts: 593
in The Commons

There has been much discussion recently about everything from skin to hair to eyebrows when it comes to creating more realistic renders, and it's obvious that we've made some enormous strides, however, the one thing that still jumps out of a lot of otherwise great renders is flat, unrealistic eyes with nearly glowingly white sclera.

Not to detract from graffixguy2_89649d288e's thread about Eye Modeling, but does anyone have some techniques they can share to improve eye renders in IRay? I seem to recall people talking about adding a thin-wall glossy layer among other techniques.

Comments

  • jag11jag11 Posts: 885
    edited October 2016

    I am still strugling with eyes, but I have found that while working with textures, the PBR Specular/Glosiness Base Mixing behaves better than the Metallicity/R. I prefer to turn off translucency as eyes are a small area, also I always turn off Top Coat. Another important thing is iRay expects textures with a neutral gamma or the render will look wrong.

    I'd love to know what others are doing.

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    Post edited by jag11 on
  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557
    edited October 2016

    I just use the standard thin water shader but, as glucose is present in the fluids, change the index of refraction.

    Refractive Index and Osmolality of Human Tears. Craig (1995).

    1.33698 +/- 0.00110

    And another useful link.

    tears 1.336
    cornea 1.376
    aqueous humour 1.336
    crystalline lens (average effect) 1.42
    vitreous humour 1.336

    You should also use any available cornea bulge morphs.

    Post edited by Jimbow on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,970

    I really love AprilYSH's freebie eyes: http://www.shop.aprilsvanity.com/genesis-3-eyes.html

    They are awesome! :D

    The settings that come with Beautiful Skin Iray are quite lovely too:

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,929

    I agree completely with the OP but would add that this a not specifically
    a problem occuring with Iray but with frankly EVERY Daz/poser render I see posted anywhere.
    There has been great strides in skin realism but the eyes are alway epic  fail...not even bloody close.

    I think most of the problem is related to the IOR issues mentioned by 
    jimbow as well as Iris colors that are flat and frankly cartoonish compared the the obsessive detail given to skin mapps

    Here are some Examples from which P.A's could learn alot IMHO.
    https://www.cgtrader.com/blog/portraits-of-the-21st-century-the-most-photorealistic-3d-renderings-of-human-beings

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  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,078

    Project EYEray from DimensionTheory has some outstanding material choices. If you pick only one, this is it.

  • JimbowJimbow Posts: 557

    I agree with the opinion of Project EYERAY, but I use a water shader with the IOR setings I posted above for the cornea and eye moisture.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    Now might be an excellent time to suggest folks visit the communism link in my signature. I have some iris shape morphs for gen3 there. A lot of Genesis's problems aren't helped by the eye geometry. Using my morphs to change the shape of the iris plus the cornea bulge morph (I usually set that one to 150%) that comes with the DAZ morph sets makes a world of difference. Also make sure the cornea has thin walled set off otherwise it doesn't handle refraction as well IMO.
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,842
    wolf359 said:

    I agree completely with the OP but would add that this a not specifically
    a problem occuring with Iray but with frankly EVERY Daz/poser render I see posted anywhere.
    There has been great strides in skin realism but the eyes are alway epic  fail...not even bloody close.

    I think most of the problem is related to the IOR issues mentioned by 
    jimbow as well as Iris colors that are flat and frankly cartoonish compared the the obsessive detail given to skin mapps

    Here are some Examples from which P.A's could learn alot IMHO.
    https://www.cgtrader.com/blog/portraits-of-the-21st-century-the-most-photorealistic-3d-renderings-of-human-beings

    Thanks for the link, some amazing work there. You spend enough time around DAZ products and images, you tend to lose sight of the bigger CGI picture and what can actually be done outside of our small comunity.

    Of all the characters I have for G3F, I find that Raiya's Sasha for V7 has the best eyes and I use them for everyone.

  • jag11jag11 Posts: 885

    Really interesting info&tips, thanks.

  • pdspds Posts: 593

    Thanks so much for all the great input. I look forward to testing out your suggestions!

    Related to this, I vaguely recall seeing a "state of development" video for the latest Unreal Engine (or a game being developed with it, I can't remember which) that included an extensive discussion on all the subtleties necessary to achieve realistic looking eyes. One of the aspects I remember was the different shadow and reflection zones caused by upper and lower eyelids and that a lot of current renders don't address the bottom lid effects very well or at all. Not sure how much of that discussion is as relevant in Daz, but from what I've seen, the lower part of the eyeball definitely seems far too bright in many renders, and that seems to contribute to the "flat white disc" issue. 

    If I can find the video, I'll post a link. It was fascinating. 

  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,983
    j cade said:
    Now might be an excellent time to suggest folks visit the communism link in my signature. I have some iris shape morphs for gen3 there. A lot of Genesis's problems aren't helped by the eye geometry. Using my morphs to change the shape of the iris plus the cornea bulge morph (I usually set that one to 150%) that comes with the DAZ morph sets makes a world of difference. Also make sure the cornea has thin walled set off otherwise it doesn't handle refraction as well IMO.

    J.Cade, I installed this morph, where do I find it?  In shapping or parameters?

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    Uhh... either I think (I always use the parameters tab personally)? They ought to be same place the DAZ eye morphs are. Easiest way to find them in the parameters tab is to type "iris" in the little search bar at the top of the tab. That's generally what I do.
  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,983

    OK thanks

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    wolf359 said:

    I agree completely with the OP but would add that this a not specifically
    a problem occuring with Iray but with frankly EVERY Daz/poser render I see posted anywhere.
    There has been great strides in skin realism but the eyes are alway epic  fail...not even bloody close.

    I think most of the problem is related to the IOR issues mentioned by 
    jimbow as well as Iris colors that are flat and frankly cartoonish compared the the obsessive detail given to skin mapps

    Here are some Examples from which P.A's could learn alot IMHO.
    https://www.cgtrader.com/blog/portraits-of-the-21st-century-the-most-photorealistic-3d-renderings-of-human-beings

     

    link mentions s/w i've never heard of - Yeti for hair  MARI, Shave, Haircut,,Knald

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679

    jcade, is there a similar morph for g2? Or can it be transferred with GenX'd?

  • Victor_BVictor_B Posts: 392

    I like character's eyes from Godin, especial for Victoria 4.
    http://posercontent.com/vendors/godin/307

  • VisuimagVisuimag Posts: 578

    I've gotten some pretty decent results while fiddling with settings (albeit, that's what I mainly pay attention to - eyes).

     

     

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  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,983
    Visuimag said:

    I've gotten some pretty decent results while fiddling with settings (albeit, that's what I mainly pay attention to - eyes).

     

     

    Very nice, beautiful eyes.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,842
    Visuimag said:

    I've gotten some pretty decent results while fiddling with settings (albeit, that's what I mainly pay attention to - eyes).

     

     

    Very nice! care to share your settings?

  • VisuimagVisuimag Posts: 578
    FSMCDesigns said:
    Visuimag said:

    I've gotten some pretty decent results while fiddling with settings (albeit, that's what I mainly pay attention to - eyes).

     

     

    Very nice! care to share your settings?

    Sure. Pay close attention to Iris morphs. They really help out, specifically "bulge morphs". also, look for character eyes that have serious iris detail, not just pretty colors

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Visuimag said:
    FSMCDesigns said:
    Visuimag said:

    I've gotten some pretty decent results while fiddling with settings (albeit, that's what I mainly pay attention to - eyes).

     

     

    Very nice! care to share your settings?

    Sure. Pay close attention to Iris morphs. They really help out, specifically "bulge morphs". also, look for character eyes that have serious iris detail, not just pretty colors

    On a side note....sometimes you can use the 'pretty colors' for the base color with the bump and normal maps from the high detail ones and have very good results.  Other times, there is too much of a mismatch with the details for it to work well.  The key is, don't be afraid to experiment with 'kitbashing' the eye materials.

  • VisuimagVisuimag Posts: 578
    edited November 2016
    FSMCDesigns said:
    Visuimag said:
    On a side note....sometimes you can use the 'pretty colors' for the base color with the bump and normal maps from the high detail ones and have very good results.  Other times, there is too much of a mismatch with the details for it to work well.  The key is, don't be afraid to experiment with 'kitbashing' the eye materials.

    Ah, good to know!

    Post edited by Visuimag on
  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,638
    FSMCDesigns said:
    wolf359 said:

    I agree completely with the OP but would add that this a not specifically
    a problem occuring with Iray but with frankly EVERY Daz/poser render I see posted anywhere.
    There has been great strides in skin realism but the eyes are alway epic  fail...not even bloody close.

    I think most of the problem is related to the IOR issues mentioned by 
    jimbow as well as Iris colors that are flat and frankly cartoonish compared the the obsessive detail given to skin mapps

    Here are some Examples from which P.A's could learn alot IMHO.
    https://www.cgtrader.com/blog/portraits-of-the-21st-century-the-most-photorealistic-3d-renderings-of-human-beings

    Thanks for the link, some amazing work there. You spend enough time around DAZ products and images, you tend to lose sight of the bigger CGI picture and what can actually be done outside of our small comunity.

    Of all the characters I have for G3F, I find that Raiya's Sasha for V7 has the best eyes and I use them for everyone.

    I have this model also so I will take a closer look at her eyes.

  • RafmerRafmer Posts: 564
    edited November 2016
    Victor_B said:

    I like character's eyes from Godin, especial for Victoria 4.
    http://posercontent.com/vendors/godin/307

    Thanks for the recomendation! I am tempted to buy Nora only to have her eyes sitting in my library :)

    Post edited by Rafmer on
  • Victor_BVictor_B Posts: 392

    By the way... look at maddelirium's eyes http://posercontent.com/vendors/maddelirium/457
    I think it's very natural http://posercontent.com/characters-for-poser/mdd-alexis-for-v42

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