Daz Studio 4.9 Beta Now Available..
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Rawb, thanks so much for answering questions- could you do mine? And are products going to be identified in the store as Daz Connect only? (when that happens? May be too far down the pike for you to address, but would you pass that suggestion along please?)
Un-encrypted content installed through DIM installs as it does today and will continue to install that way to the folders of your liking on disk. Products installed through Daz Connect will be installed locally on your hard-drive in a specific folder (currently the first location listed in your content directory manager) usually the My Library folder on your local drive. We are planning to add a specific preset to let you pick the Daz Connect install location independently from the current locations. In this folder will be encrypted scene files and non encrypted textures and other non encrypted support files. Only the daz specific asset files are encrypted.
The group with the loudest complaints are actually the ones I understand the best, the ones that want to manually sort their files out on the filesystem. The fortunate thing about my snarky 1995 comment is that it also states that I am trying to figure out some possible solutions for this. Even without any encryption the new storage locations for Daz Connect as a directory per-product would cause enough problems to third party programs to not make it very useful, which is why creating a workaround that doesn't cause problems for other programs is complicated.
That answers mine, thanks- DIM will be the unencrypted. So if updates appear there, they have to likewise be the unencrypted. Correct me if I'm wrong, thanks.
I wish I could give you a better answer, but I'm not sure what sort of plan is in place to add that sort of indication to products. Not trying to avoid any questions but I don't have every single answer, nor am I sure if there is anything decided yet.
Rawb, we appreciate the workarounds, truly we do.
I think where some of the irritation comes in (for me and a few others) is when statements are made that 90 percent of people don't bother re-organizing the files. Unless you guys are magical and appearing in everyone's livingrooms/ dens/ kitchens/ wherever, you do NOT have any way to verify that only 10% of users organize their files. Even with a demographic sampling of a target population, it is only a sample and I hope you folks did not waste money conducting a survey on that!
Got that out of my system. Now, back to appreciating that you are answering questions for us.
Understood, thanks. It's only a suggestion for the web team down the line.
Me, I love DIM and I think Daz Connect sounds awesome. So hey.
They can, have, and will again modify the EULA for previously licensed product. It's happened three times in the last three years, I believe. The last one was primarily due to allowing 3D printing in some circumstances; I don't remember what the other changes did. Each time, Daz modified the EULA and didn't allow people access to their previously licensed content until they agreed to the new EULA. (That ... did not go over at all well. Especially since they didn't tell people ahead of time this would happen.)
Most software licenses contain a clause somewhere in it -- usually near the beginning or end -- that allows the licensor (that is, Daz, in this case) to change the terms for the licensee (you, me, whoever has purchased a license to the content) without prior notice. Technically, you don't have to agree to it ... but then you lose the ability to access the server-hosted version of your previously licensed content, because the server won't allow you to do anything until you do agree. (And as a practical issue, once anything in your account gets updated for any reason, you would need to agree to the new EULA anyway, because maintaining multiple copies of the same item to deal with different licensees defeats the purpose of server hosting in the first place.)
To veer back somewhere near the topic, and yet keep up the tangent: DAZ peoples, will the EULA be updated to deal with the new Daz Connect distribution methods and the encryption of the files, or will the current EULA suffice? I would suggest that if you do need to modify the EULA, you might consider sending out a couple of email messages a few days ahead of time so that people don't get a very nasty surprise again. The store banner you use would also be a good alternative. Forum messages alone, not so much, no.
Well, the "some day things will be Daz Connect only.".."Someday" is Daz 5. Unless you're going to take Apple's lead and never itterate beyond 10, or 4 in your case, and the future is just 4.9.5, 4.9.6....etc 5 is the "someday".
As the MULTIPLE Daz employees?/developers?/somethings? have not been touting performance improvements, I guess my earlier questions are answered.
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Going thru the change longs, this leaped out at me:
Wait for serial numbers during registration wizard
Rejecting the registration wizard starts the application as standard edition
So...heading back to the "charge for full features" marketplan?
Vince,
Thanks for your response. I appreciate it.
My concern here, is that if I want to ever update to a post-Connect rollout figure, then basically, I am indeed forced to use Connect in order to use that new figure.
Sure, I could choose not to buy at all. I could choose to continue rolling forward without it (and at present that is indeed my choice). But can we look at this realistically for a moment? New content moving forward will eventually ONLY be available through Connect. With using Connect, I cannot organize my library content as I need to. Using Connect, I must be connected to the internet, which greatly impacts my ability to even use the Connect content. Using Connect, I am paying for a product that I likely won't even have access to a copy of it's installer on my own machine.
So, no. Of course, Daz is not going to "force" us to use Connect in our software. But they sure as heck are going to force it if we want to purchase anything that is released after a certain date.
That still counts as being forced, Vince. It does. Yes, I have the option to not buy anything else from Daz after that date, but let's be realistic here. You know this market, I know this market. You know very well that an end user at SOME point will need to get that newer Daz flagship figure if they want to produce content, whether it's paid or freebies, or if they want to render with that newer figure. You and I both know that at some point, a PA or vendor, no matter WHAT store they are working for, is going to NEED to purchase that updated figure if they want to continue to earn a living. Which means they will be forced to use Connect.
So yes. That still counts as being forced, Vince. Because the choice is either "suck it up and use Connect" or "leave all Daz products behind which comprise roughly 85% of the DS/Poser market." Yes. That still counts as being forced. Instead of the software automatically switching us over to Connect, doing things this way basically means we are forced to choose Connect even when we resent it or strongly do not want to use it. So, yes. Daz is still forcing it.
Here are my questions :
1 - Will I have the ability to organize my content libraries in a manner that makes sense to me, if I am using Connect products?
(I cannot tolerate AT ALL the way DAZ organizes and names it's folders. Nothing is standardized, and nothing makes sense to me. That's WHY I re-organize everything!)
2 - Will I have the ability to store a local copy of my products (the installer) on my own hardware for backup purposes?
(This is necessary because if I am somewhere without net connection, or recovering from a partial loss in that area, I will NEED the installer file to reinstall the product!)
3 - Will I have the ability to make use of Connect products when I am (as I often am) in areas with no internet connection available?
(Again - I am VERY FREQUENTLY working on my scenes, content, etc, in places that do NOT, I repeat - DO NOT - have internet access!)
I would be much more willing to make a switch over to using Connect if the above three questions have an answer of "yes."
There has got to be a way to protect the vendor's copyright and hard work without making the system (Connect) completely intolerable for hardcore users. There's got to be SOME way to do that. That's what I'm after here. If the above 3 points have an answer of "yes" then I truly don't mind making the switch over to Connect. But if those answers are "no", then I have very serious issues with all three points, and Daz will most likely lose revenue at least from this lowly not-important-hobbyist customer.
My libraries are organized my way, because THAT is what WORKS for me. Daz's own content organization is a joke for my brain. I can't find squat, and I spend more blasted time HUNTING for stuff than I do setting up or rendering a bloody scene! Not acceptable.
I work VERY often in places (I do everything from a laptop) where I DO NOT have internet connection! If the Connect content requires an active internet connection to use during the process of building a scene, then basically what Daz is telling me, is that about 65% of the time that I would spend working on this stuff, I will NOT be ABLE to. Not accpetable.
I need to maintain local copies of my installer content just in case something drastic ever happened. When it comes to computers, data is not properly backed up unless it's in at least three different places. Cloud (Connect) only storage of installer files is only one method. Even Daz can suffer hardware failures or server problems. Daz had one happen not that long ago, if you recall back to when our product libraries emptied out! If I am paying for content, I should have a copy of that content on my own hardware. So, will Connect content give us our installers? If not, it is not acceptable.
So... can we have a clear, concise answer to those three questions? Just one word. Yes or no.
Again, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'm sure this is all a massive headache for you folks. But right now the whole idea of Connect is leaving a very sour taste in my mouth, and it's coming across as a rather slimy business practice. I know the staff on this thread do not have any control over what actually will happen. But we are looking for straight answers so we know what to expect.
For me - I would really just like those three questions above answered, if at all possible, and then I will politely go away again. :) Thanks.
As long as we can backup that key, and easily restore it?
I hate what's happening, but must disagree on the not optional part; it is optional, we can chose not to buy it. Something I expect to be doing. I bought into G3: I may be reverting to G2.
I'm currently doing this; thought I would whilst in beta so I could very easily revert; restoring Windows from a disk image takes me about twenty minutes, with about another ten for updates and adding stuff back that I don't back up in the image due to it backing up unencrypted.
+1
And while the current Management state they have no intention of going subscription only for content, it doesn't prevent others going that way in the future; this system more readily allows for that.
If that happens, please make sure that I can get my personal key to un-encrypt my content (or whatever it is) by other means than direct download. Even filing a ticket or a manual download from my account would be fine for me.
I have no option to connect my Daz-PC with the internet. It was only connected once, right after I bought it to register Windows and I don't intend to carry it back just to download one little encryption key.
I am fine with encrypted files as long as I can download and install them manually still.
Greetings,
DAZ's typical naming scheme is based off the old Poser naming schemes. Here's the funny thing; I think they _AGREE_ with you that it's awful, and so the new system does away with it entirely. You don't need to care where the content is on your hard drive, or directories named for the artists, or whatever, because it provides a better view of your content, that you can manage to your hearts content. It gets rid of the crappy Poser-based directory structures entirely. That's a good thing.
Anyway, it sounds like they're working on a workaround, but it probably won't be as easy as Smart Content.
They've said yes to this more times than I can count in these threads. This isn't a cloud-centric 'all your content floats on servers elsewhere until the last second you need it' kind of solution. It's a 'download the data to your computer, keep it on your computer, and use it' solution. The only difference is that specific pieces of your data remain encrypted at rest, but if you back it up, blow it all away, then restore it, you get access to it again pretty much transparently. (I was going to eliminate the 'pretty much', but I always feel the need to hedge.) Evidently if you open a scene that uses content you don't have locally it'll offer to get it for you, but that's not how you'll use the program normally, and if you accept, it STAYS ON YOUR COMPUTER.
You don't need to be connected to use your products. They live on your system. You need to be connected to download it, but...well, yeah, that's the way it works, ever since people stopped shipping CDs to your house. :)
The early betas don't have offline install, because they felt the 'minimum viable product' was to make the in-application-download process as good as possible.
...
Anyway, that's all from my reading of the voluminous pages of stuff that's been written about this.
-- Morgan
As it stands, the answers to all three are Kinda, yes, and yes.
As for the first, you'll be able to reorganize things in the database for sure, by using your own categories with or without DAZ's even being involved. Might be rocket science at first, though.
Second, Rawb has said several times that we can download copies of the install zips at our leisure. If you want to squirrel them away on 1.2MB floppy disks(and can get enoch disks, never mind a drive to read them), there's nothing they can (or would even want) to do to stop you.
Last, If you're using DC (and you can opt out with this version), you only have to connect once unless you need the store for something. After that you can click "offline" and "don't ask again" and you're fine, even if you put your purchases on a USB stick and take them to your computer (that part is at least planned, and may or may not be completely implemented right this instant). The first connection generates your personal decryption key, and that also hides on your computer. Every account will have one, which Studio uses to decrypt the generic on the files in the .zip, and then re-encrypts with your account key. Only the .dsf/.duf files are effected, and you can still export stuff if you need to.
The improvements are enough to make me want to, and I've already had my session logged in. In fact, you can remove the Store tab, and you don't even need to deal with the store. As it is, you can ignore it completely if you feel the urge. In the meantime, DIM will still serve our needs, and serves up only unencrypted files. If I understand it all correctly, there isn't a plan currently to deprecate DIM, so that method will remain in place for some time to come.
Great snorting warthogs, I hope that isn't anywhere in the picture. I don't object to paying a fee, I already started doing that again with PC. The issue with subscriptions is, connecting to the mama server. I've been trying for a week to do a trial of a program I would really like to upgrade, but can't because I absolutely can't connect to their server. It's extremely irritating.
I keep mulling over the idea of objections to use of DAZ figures in other software. IRay suits me fine, but isn't it a high compliment that others want to use DAZ figures in other software? An opportunity for a bigger market? Unless people are decimating the fire out of DAZ figures and putting them in games without having a license to do that. It's ironic that the world now revolves around a system of connected computers, but hacking/piracy/computer fraud are all given such low priority on the legal totem pole. Stealing is stealing, and no crime is victimless.
I should have been more specific in that second paragraph. I don't believe they will change the licensing agreement to allow the expiration of licensing fees on items we've already paid for.
I posted this over in the main thread over in the DAZ Studio section, but I thought some mighth like to see some screenshot, and first hand experience.
Before you start reading, let me say that I am nt a huge fan of DAZ Connect. There are various reasons, and while I see the effort that went into making this a user friendly experience, it just doesn't pan out if you want to use your content with various applications that don't share the database, or if you like to sort the files your own way. However, I can see that this will work if you are used to DIM-Install and DAZ-only usage.
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Okay... so I downloaded 4.9 on my Laptop.
First impressions on the entire DAZ Connect thing...
On first impression, this is pretty much doing the same thing like DIM - you log in just like with DIM, but inside the DS rather than the DIM application. The program then started downloading ALL meta data of the content I bought at DAZ store (but not the other content files). On the laptop, I only have installed a handful of items for general stuff, so I was rather surprised.
Then, I tried to download something. This is where it gets rather tedious. You go to Smart Content, and under "products" you can now see all content you bought as thumbnails. That is, all content that has metadata. So no chance for older, no-meta-data content to be found here! (EDIT: This is being worked on.)
To download, simply double click on the item you want to download. But there's no way to batchdownload things. This is rather annoying for someone like me, who wants all of the bought content on disk, rather than cherry picking for whatever I'm working on. (EDIT: This is also being worked on.) However, the new feature is making installation/deinstallation easy. I haven't figured out how categorizing is supposed to work in this, but if you right-click on the icons, you have various options available, including a direct link to the Readme-file at the DAZ-Page.
At this moment, I am still very much on the fence in regards to this DAZ Connect thing. I can see the advantages, but right now, the disadvantages cleary outweight the advantages for me.
On the plus side, the Iray and 3Delight updates are quite impressive, i.e. 3Delight looks awesome.
Here are some screenshots:
Login screen before and after login.
Looking for Scott6 I downloaded with DIM in the content directory - no such luck.
His image is colored in the Smart Content, all other content is greyes out as it is not downloaded. Note the cloud symbol on the icon - my DIM-downloaded (G2M and M4) content still has the cloud icon, meaning I haven't downloaded it through DAZ Connect, while Scott (downloaded with DAZ Connect) doesn't have that icon.
Scott's files in their encrypted version as they are stored in the default folder that I'm using.
While I won't comment further on 4.9 itself, I would like to suggest that its introduction could have been handled more adpetly.
By far the biggest issue for users of previous version is that their current version is effectively redundant as the plan seems to be to gradually move all new Daz content to 4.9 use exclusively.
It beggars belief that this, the real big issue for users, barely gets a mention in the release information.
While I do appreciate the detailed FAQs and extensive lists of bug fixes, perhaps when Daz does its next update/release, they will start by mentioning the big issues down to the little ones, rather than the reverse.
I don't want to use DAZ Connect or any other clouds. Clouds are not save. there are several hacks on clouds known. I want to be sure, that i can download the products that I buy and backup them on external media for a maybe later new installations.
I thought I understood this, but now not so sure....hope these question will get answered. From what Vince has said Connect is currently optional. But it's not clear how this works for new products available only through connect.
E.g
So as soon as I open Connect, will it t automatically, without my prompt start updating stuff, or re-installing stuff I don't want reinstalled? Are there options to ask first before updating?
Could someone explain how Connect works in this scenario. I accept I'll have to use connect for new content, but don't want it touching what I already have, or rearring anything.
The smart thing would have been to allow existing content to be DRM-free in this new DAZ Connect system, which no doubt would've enticed more people to try it, myself included.
The cloud storage gets thrown around as an excuse, but there is no reason to keep the content encrypted after it has been downloaded onto my system as long as I can get the unencrypted stuff via DIM.
Some are claiming to "go elsewhere" - exactly where "else" do you mean? Serious question not being snarky or anything I promise! :)
We cannot buy HD anything anywhere else. The Base Figures and most of the new Tech is un-matched anywhere else at the moment.
Content and pricing - well, we can go circles on that one because I think it'll be based on perception.
I do like being able to dictate exactly where the content is installed. I know it was stated that we could point Connect to install in a location of our choosing.
Will it be like DIM where we can install to say
"This is hair, I want it in "C:/3DContent/Hair - and this is clothing so I want it in D:/3DContent/Wardrobe"
Yes, I already know how to categorize inside DS and LOVE it. But sometimes it makes sense to have content on different drives because of space constraints.
DAZ_Rawb:
Understandable that your employees may not have all the assets available to them installed all the time. Maybe this idea was better for internal purposes? Or for allowing PAs with limited resources to access assets on a per usage basis for packaging their approved products for the store?
Or maybe I and a handful of others are the only ones that have all or most of our purchased products installed?
Yes, pirating needs to be addressed. Judging by the response I think the chosen solution isn't popular? I do respect and appreciate work being done on this front as I'm sure other PAs and customers alike do underneath the initial "Cloud" shock reaction.
Almost as important is the need to get ALL PAs on the same page as to organizing their content.
Some do it this way, DAZ O's are done this other way. Even after the adoption of MetaData and DIM some of us still have 3 folders for Shader presets. Really???
This is most likely why everyone is having a cow about leaving it up to DS to install their content.
Another thing that really needs to be addressed is the documentation on updates.
Why do I need this update? Oh it's for the incorrect filename references that somehow passed QA - ok fine, downloading now - yay now my product works!
Instead I'm saying - Oh wait, NO ReadMe file available yet on this new product? What???
I know that's what rubs me the wrong way about all this. Those last 2 examples would "Enhance" my "User Experience" greatly.
Grey areas like "Not at this time" just gives me flashbacks of the Dynamic Clothing Creation plugin or DS is no longer free buy now talk. :(
To each their own. I don't buy HD products or anything with DRM (unless it can be removed), both for the same reasons. The only exception to this has been Minotaur 6 which is too darn awesome and pretty cheap at the time. What I've seen of G3F suggests that I will have no reason to care about G3M.
Where will I go? Renderosity, Turbosquid, and many other marketplaces selling this stuff. Prices are often higher, but then so is quality.
Oh no, please don't get me wrong. :(
I meant it like - where else are we to get content the way it is offered here at DAZ. I probably can't get into the details of my likes and dislikes of the products Rendo offers - I do shop there though. And I will say that it is not the same in most cases.
Did not use the HD tech in previous versions of DS because of the speed but Iray changed that as did the lower poly G3 figure. HD support is very important for the new figures and for extreme details on the older figures.
I was not aware I could buy similiar compatible content at Turbosquid - I'll need to check it out again.
Agreed. Sometimes you can think that there can't be life after DAZ, but I was looking at all the content that I have bought here (a lot!) and I suddenly realised that I probably have everything that I will ever need. There are some products that I have never even got around to using (and I'm sure I'm not the only one in that position). So, with regret, and as a direct consequence of the changes being introduced here, I have decided to stop purchasing from DAZ. I've given it a lot of thought and can happily freeze my system, with its double backup of the ZIP installers for every single product. DS 4.8 will, I guess, eventually become unusable, as driver and OS updates are rolled out, but it should be good for a while yet ... and then we'll see what we will see.
This is a good idea, and I would give it a try if this was true. I do not want DS to encrypt content I have that is currently unencrypted.
Compatible with an asterisk. Obviously you won't find much (if anything) in Poser or DAZ Studio formats at Turbosquid.
For what it's worth, I'm not going to boycott DAZ. I will buy content as long as it remains in a format I can modify.
See, and that was my original point - there isn't any real competition for this store.
2-3 months ago I would agree that for DS content this was really the only place to come. However a number of other store fronts (rendo mostly) have been releasing a hell of a lot of G3F and iRay stuff recently. I assume they are catering for higher demand from the increasing number of DS users compared to Poser ones. It is possible that after 4.9 the number of studio products will increase further at these stores, as those that do not want DRM products will look to other places for new stuff.
I know HD is only available here, but I struggle to see the difference with HD morphs except when rendered without textures.