Fault in three products affects Genesis, G2F, G2M shoulders

DavidGB

A few months ago I belatedly discovered a fault in three related morph set products. I fixed them for myself and then meant to post about it but forgot (very poor memory side-effect from medications I'm on permanently, unfortunately). Just remembered, Can only do very brief search to see if this has been reported before and couldn't find anything. Plus the products in question haven't been fixed, so i assume not.

The three products in question are:

Genesis Evolution: Muscularity

Muscularity Morphs for Genesis 2 Male(s)

Muscularity Morphs for Genesis 2 Female(s)

(The G2F/G2M products unfortunately copied the first Genesis one, including copying  the fault.)

If, like me, you converted the Genesis version to G2F and/or G2M (e.g. with GenX, or Transfer Utility), and left it there after later getting the G2F/M products (which I have, because I prefer the converted Genesis main muscularity morphs in G2F, but prefer the G2F flexion morphs) then you get TWICE the fault - it's additive!

This fault affects Genesis, G2F and G2M with any of those products installed even - in fact especially -  when you think you are not using any of the products' morphs.

The fault is this:

The products all contain Flexion morphs to give the effect of tensing muscles. These morphs are ERC linked to the relevent joint bends, but are also linked to a master FLEXIONS ON dial, so are ONLY supposesd to work when you bend joints AND the Flexions On dial is set to more than zero. This works as it should EXCEPT for the Deltoid Fex Left and Right morphs. If you examine all the 'flex' morphs you find they are all linked by formulae in a particular way to the appropriate joint rotations and Flexions On, using a CTRL dial for the particular flexion .... Except for the Deltoid Flex Left and Right, which have a different arrangement of formulae from all the others and no CTRL dial. And this arrangement of formulae for the Deltoid Flex Left and Right is incorrect. It DOES link them to the shoulder up/down rotation; but it does NOT link them correctly to the Flexions On dial - it is as if they were not linked to the Flexions On at all.

The effect of this fault is this. The Deltoid Flex Left and Right morphs ALWAYS apply fully when you raise the arms of Genesis G2F and G2M if you have these products installed, even (in fact especially) if Flexions On is set to 0. (Of course if you have Flexions ON set to 1, then there isn't a fault as the deltoid flexes are supposed to be applying fully; but with Fexions On set to anything less than 1, like 0, it works for all the OTHER flex morphs but the deltoid Flex remians on fully).

This means that it you have these products installed but aren't using them, Genesis, G2F and G2M's shoulders bulge unexpectedly and more than they should when putting the arms up. And if, like me, you have G2F and/or G2M with BOTH converted Genesis Evolution Musculaity AND the Muscularity Morphs for G2M/G2F installed you get DOUBLE the fault, with BOTH sets of Deltoid Flex morphs applying fully together on raising the arms, creating seriously bulging shoulders that pretty much squeeze the head between them!

You know, I'd actually been thinking that G2F's one really bad joint bend was her shoulders-and-collars arms up. Now I've identified this problem and fixed it, I've realised her actual arms-up bend isn't bad at all, it was just the two sets of deltoid flex morphs applying when I knew Flexions on was set to 0 and thought that was her natural raised shoulder alone.

Anyway, if you have any of those three products, including having converted the Genesis one to G2F or G2M, then you have this problem. Just raise the arms, then look in the Posing Controls>Arms>Flexions and see if the Deltoid Fex Left and/or right is showing anything but 0 when you have Flexions On at 0.

For mysellf, I fixed it; I just created a CTRL channel like all the othetr flexion morphs have, and changed the formulae so that the Deltoid Flex morphs link to Flexions On and their controlling joint bend the same way all the other Flexion morphs do. Especially given that I was getting the double problem in G2F and G2M because I had both the converted Genesis version and the native Genesis 2 version in them, fixing this made a HUGE difference. But DAZ and/or SimonWM should fix those products for everyone else.

 

(I hope DAZ don't think everyone's gone from G2F to G3F so don't bother fixing it. While G3F bends a little better than vanilla G2F, extensive side-by-side testing showed me that G2F with one - and especailly a mixture of both - of the joint bending improvement products Ideal Beauty and Beautiful Bends actually still bends better then G3F, at least until someone produces similar. joint bending improvement products for G3F. Indeed the joint corrected G2F actually bends a LOT better than G3F in most joint bendss, and at least as well in the rest. And for myself I'm still - in fact even more - against the G3F mesh topology abandoning the following of the main surface anatomy that DAZ had stuck to since original Stephanie. The G3F topology requires use of levels of HD subdivision at ranges and on bulk structures that shouldn't require them, and don't on G2F, with the subsequent performance hit and a massive render time penalty on my computer; none of the DAZ ad DAZ PA HD products separate muscle definition from muscle bulk adequately (and unlike G2F one can't get significant even basic muscle definition without horrible levels of HD, like level 4 to get something on a G3F some way from the camera that shows at level 1 on G2F); and not being a DAZ PA I can't create and save HD morphs myself even if I were happy to pay the processing price of using HD morphs for things that shouldn't need them and if I were to want to try to fix things myself. I've tried every combination of available G3F products to try to recreate an important character of mine with G3F, and the lack of separation of muscle definition and bulk means I either have to make her a bodybuilder (and HD at least at level 3) - which she isn't - or have a significantly higher bodyfat level than she's supposed to have with the (rrealistic) athlete but NOT bodybuilder phtsique she's supposed to have. And I can't create proper muscle flexion in any female characters, including the ordinary, non-muscular ones, without having to have the figure at a notably higher HD level than i need for anything else - or for a G2F figure - which alone considearbly increases render times. I'm also very sad that for the Genesis3 series DAZ appear to have replaced Gia, the one and only figure they've ever made closely based on a real female athlete (Gina Carano at her old fighting weight), with the decidedly comic book Karen. Out of all the ...7 figures they are going to do, is ONE representation of a real athletic human female physique too much to ask? Do they ALL have to be 'sexed' up comic book stereotypes?)

larsmidnatt

I don't think Karen replaces Gia in any way, nor did Daz say so. They serve different purposes...Just cause Karen came out doesn't mean a Gia like figure won't appear at some point. Daz tends to release a mix of realistic, toon and various stylized characters over the course of 2 years. So just because a "realistic" figure didn't come out first doesn't mean it won't ever happen. Scott 6 didn't replace Gianni for example.

But the rest of your post was very informative, thanks for sharing. I'll keep a look out as I do have some of the Muscle morph products and think I may have noticed the issue once myself, but it wasn't critical and I thought maybe I just had the wrong expectations. thanks for the heads up.

And don't get me started on HD morphs...

Richard Haseltine

Yes, I see this with G2F at least - I will report it, thank you for finding it.

araneldon

DavidGB said:

(I hope DAZ don't think everyone's gone from G2F to G3F so don't bother fixing it.

DavidGB said:

And for myself I'm still - in fact even more - against the G3F mesh topology abandoning the following of the main surface anatomy that DAZ had stuck to since original Stephanie. The G3F topology requires use of levels of HD subdivision at ranges and on bulk structures that shouldn't require them, and don't on G2F, with the subsequent performance hit and a massive render time penalty on my computer; none of the DAZ ad DAZ PA HD products separate muscle definition from muscle bulk adequately (and unlike G2F one can't get significant even basic muscle definition without horrible levels of HD, like level 4 to get something on a G3F some way from the camera that shows at level 1 on G2F); and not being a DAZ PA I can't create and save HD morphs myself even if I were happy to pay the processing price of using HD morphs for things that shouldn't need them and if I were to want to try to fix things myself. I've tried every combination of available G3F products to try to recreate an important character of mine with G3F, and the lack of separation of muscle definition and bulk means I either have to make her a bodybuilder (and HD at least at level 3) - which she isn't - or have a significantly higher bodyfat level than she's supposed to have with the (rrealistic) athlete but NOT bodybuilder phtsique she's supposed to have. And I can't create proper muscle flexion in any female characters, including the ordinary, non-muscular ones, without having to have the figure at a notably higher HD level than i need for anything else - or for a G2F figure - which alone considearbly increases render times.

Typically I've been looking forward to new figure releases, but what they did with Genesis 3 has pretty much killed my interest in G3M. Sadly, what is profitable for DAZ is decided by the load-and-render majority and they don't need HD tools, so...

Male-M3dia

If I'm reading the OP's post correctly, the proper fix is to use GenX2 and deactivate the Genesis 1 morphs from Genesis 2, as the morphs that is causing the issue is in the genesis product being copied over to Genesis 2 and not renamed. Even though morphs can be copied over from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2, the user would have to make sure they aren't overwriting morphs in official products when they are copying them over. GenX'd morphs aren't official products as you couldn't test for everything that's copied over and any morph from other characters, if not named uniquely, can overwrite official morphs in Genesis 2.

araneldon

The OP seems to be saying that the flaw is in the product; it's not the result of any conversion, but having converted morphs exacerbates the problem.

Richard Haseltine

I see the issue in G2F and native muscle set alone, no GenX morphs as I don't have GenX.