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HDR in IRay I and no background: how to? help please

boisselazonboisselazon Posts: 458
in The Commons

I am confused. I though that HDR was a ligh system/calculation to render high dynamic popping pictures.

I’m always working on renders of chars/props alone in a scene without backgrounds. I’d like to go the Iray way, because of the almost realtime render/preview and simply because of style.

 

I’ve tested my scene: they give me my renders in png (with shadows) without any sky and without background. That’s great for me.

 

My question: about the light. I’d like to get the same  kind of render (chars/props alone) without background AND without sky. But with HDRI type of ligh to get more pop/wow factor in my images.

 

Is it possible?

How to?

Additional  light product needed?

Etc…

 

Many thx in advance because I’m really confused atm.

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Comments

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,891

    I’ve tested my scene: they give me my renders in png (with shadows) without any sky and without background. That’s great for me.

    Is this in 3Delight, and you want to do the same sort of thing in Iray?

     I’d like to get the same  kind of render (chars/props alone) without background AND without sky. But with HDRI type of ligh to get more pop/wow factor in my images. 

    If you want to do this in Iray with an HDRI image loaded in Irray, just make sure that the 'Draw Dome'  option in the Environment tab is set to 'Off' (it is by default anyway).   That way, you will get the lighting without the background.   Is that what you mean?

  • boisselazonboisselazon Posts: 458
    edited July 2015

    I’ve tested my scene: they give me my renders in png (with shadows) without any sky and without background. That’s great for me.

    yes, i've tested it in both render engines: 3dl & iray. I got the result that I aim for, a char/prop with no background (the only difference is that I have a shadow on a "virtual flooor" with iray render, which is great for me!)

     

    If you want to do this in Iray with an HDRI image loaded in Irray, just make sure that the 'Draw Dome' option in the Environment tab is set to 'Off' (it is by default anyway). That way, you will get the lighting without the background. Is that what you mean?

    that is probably what I need!! laugh 

    but how do I do that?

    (sh*t, with this new forum thing, ican't quote text angry i hate this new forum, far less readable/usable )

    Edited to make quotes quotes

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,880

    To make a piece of text a quote highlight it and click the button to the left of Styles with the double-quote symbol, assuming your script blocker isn't blocking the WYSIWYG editor. If you need to use tags, use <blockquote>text</blockquote>

  • boisselazonboisselazon Posts: 458

    thx richard for the quote tip

    but back to our topic, any idea?

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    edited July 2015

    Go to the "Environment" tab in the render settings. There, look for "Draw Dome". It should be set to "off".

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • boisselazonboisselazon Posts: 458

    do I need some light setting or special light?

    do you recommend any hdri product out there?

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    That depends on what effect you are looking for.

    You do not need any special light settings; but the amount of shadows of course depends on what lights you are using.

    The HDRI in the shop are pretty good, but there are also free ones of varying quality: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/57531/list-of-sites-with-free-hdri

    You could also experiment with the "Sun-Sky" setting, which simulates the sun with a blue sky. That comes in handy if you want to simulare a certain time of the day.

    I do recommend you have a look at the thread listing here, though:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/56788/iray-start-here#latest

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,923

    I have the Draw Dome to off and I am still getting the HDRI image for the map in the window reflection. I dont know if I am saying that right. Anyway, I'm not using a background image, but the scene that came with the HDRI is showing. Hope I am making sense. So question- do they show in window reflections, even with Draw Dome OFF?

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    I think the reflections still showing is by design, all PBRs will always ray trace the 'environment' and the HDR IS the environment.  This also means that you don't need to include any reflection maps.  Of course that only works if there is an environment to use (a sun/sky isn't enough in most PBRs).

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    Does anyone know how to use this with IRay (if possible)?

    http://www.daz3d.com/urban-recreation

    Looks OK in the preview, but when I try to render I just get a black window.

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208
    Taozen said:

    Does anyone know how to use this with IRay (if possible)?

    http://www.daz3d.com/urban-recreation

    Looks OK in the preview, but when I try to render I just get a black window.

     

    What settings are you using for camera, environment and tone mapping? You will also need dome and scene set with dome set to off and the HDR in the environment parameter.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232
    edited July 2015

    Tone mapping and camera are default. Attached a screenshot of the whole thing. It's DS 4.8.0.55.

    I've used the jpg from the set for the Environment Map.

    UR_HDR_IRay-01.jpg
    1078 x 866 - 142K
    Post edited by Taoz on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208

    I still would like the camera and tone map settings.

    Like a camera you have to set the shutter speed, aperture/f stop and film ISO so that the image can be recorded. Then in the Tone Mapping you can balance the three sliders there to change the lighting without changing the camera settings, why it works like that I don't know. The only thing I can think of is so that DoF can be set in the camera and the lighting in Tone Mapping.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    Looks like you're right about the Tone Mapping, I'm getting a picture now with these settings here but they seem pretty odd for camera settings in daylight (ISO 400, shutter 10+ sec, F8)?

      

     

    UR_HDR_IRay-02.jpg
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  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    There's another thing I wonder about - the area at the bottom should be grass but just looks like noise. It is on the jpg as the popup shows. 

      

     

    UR_HDR_IRay-03.jpg
    224 x 348 - 30K
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    Well deleting the "ShadowCatcher" object from the scene fixed the missing grass thing... 

      

     

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208

    It may be you aren't getting enough light from the lights. Have you enabled photometric in the parameters for the light? Raising the light output to 4500 lumens or greater might make a difference. If there are no lights then you will have to increase the intensity from the environmental map.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    There's only UberEnvironment and a Distant Light and they can't be increased more it seems. Think I better go reading some IRay FAQs and tutorials before proceeding further, to better get into all this stuff, it seems pretty complex... 

    Thanks for your help! smiley

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208

    Under Dome increase the Environment Intensity to say 3 and do a render. If there is too much light either drop it back or change the shutter speed, f/stop or ISO. increasing the shutter speed; changing the f/stop to a higher number, which closes the iris allowing less light in; or lower the ISO to 50 or 100, or juggle all three until you get the amount of light you need that gives you a good image.

    I would probably try for shutter speed of 60; f/stop of 8; ISO of 200, adjusting the Environment map to increase the light.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232
    edited July 2015

    Environment Intensity doesn't make any difference at all, whether I set it to -10 or +100. The settings you suggest above gives a totally black render. Only settings like in the screenshot here seems to work. 

    I don't have an NVidia card, can that be the reason?

    UR_HDR_IRay-04.jpg
    1087 x 707 - 356K
    Post edited by Taoz on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    I've tried to delete UberEnvironment and the Distant Light, now I have to increase shutter speed from 0.10 to 1.5 to get the same result.

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208

    Going by those settings then you aren't getting enough light from the background. Are you in Dome a Scene mode in Environment? If you are then increasing the Environmental intensity should increase the light, I just tested that on a scene I have loaded ATM. The only other thing I would try is go to 3Delight mode, and increase the lighting coming from the two lights and then go back to Iray mode to see if it makes any difference. Failing that then adding a light to the scene to simulate sun is the only other way I can think of ATM smiley

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    Tried to add a Sun, makes no difference. Then two Distant Lights, that only made it darker. Environment Intensity setting makes no difference in any case, here it's set to 500.

    In any case, it's just an experiment and I can make it work with the right settings, so not a big problem. Could be nice to know why it doesn't behave as expected though, but maybe I'll figure it out when Iearn some more about IRay. smiley

    UR_HDR_IRay-05.jpg
    1106 x 696 - 339K
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208

    Which image have you got plugged into the Environment Map? It should be the HDR one.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    I've been using this one (not sure where it comes from (IRay default image?)). Have tried others, doesn't seem to make any difference. 

     

    UR_HDR_IRay-06.jpg
    270 x 333 - 25K
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208

    That is the default Iray one, use the HDR one from the set.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232

    Doesn't seem to make any difference. Can it be the set itself that has som odd settings or something? 

     

    UR_HDR_IRay-07.jpg
    1246 x 869 - 378K
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208

    What image have you got plugged into the skydome mesh that I see in the scene node setting? If it is the .jpg that came with the set try the HDR one in there. I'm learning all this too as we go along. I am running old scenes through Iray to see what they look like and the latest one I have had to turn all the light to low and set the environment map to none, shutter speed way up, f/stop to 22 and ISO to 50 because there was too much light and everything was white smiley

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,232
    edited July 2015

    The Skydome uses the jpg for both Diffuse and Ambient. I've tried to replace the Diffuse jpg with the hdr but that doesn't look right, see attachment. There is also a small (512x256 24 BPP) tif (looks like the hdr), not sure what that's used for. 

     

     

    UR_HDR_IRay-08.jpg
    778 x 876 - 166K
    Post edited by Taoz on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,208
    edited July 2015

    We're getting there yes

     

    There are probably two .hdr files. A small one probably in Kb and a large one probably in Mb. The small one is for lighting only which you can use in the Environmental Map, which looks like the one you are using. The bigger one also is lighting but is a full image and can be used as a background too which you can plug into the Dome, this is the one you should be using. If there is only one .hdr then use that in the Environmental Map and the .tiff or .jpg in the diffuse for the dome and see what that does I had a look at the product page and see that the small .tiff/.bmp is a reflection map so you wont need that smiley Plug the .hdr into Environmental map and the corresponding .jpg for the scene into the diffuse for the dome.

    Post edited by Fishtales on
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