Wine Me - Can't get the glass clear...

Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Hi all

In the scene I'm working on I'm using props from Dumor3D's Wine Me package. I did some reading on another topic that was about Wine Me, what I basically got from it was the most important thing was to have the Max Ray Trace set to 6 or higher. When I had it set to 8, I did a couple test renders in Lux and the glasses were beautiful... crystal clear and really sharp. However, for this scene I'm using 3dDelight, and after trying many different settings on the ray trace, setting it to 6, 8, 12, even 20 I can't get the glass to look like glass. It always has an opacity to it. It's never clear like I would hope it to be.

It was mentioned in the other topic to read the document in the installer package, but it's not in the package I downloaded, either through DIM or manually, and I can't find anything else to assist with this. I love this package and can see it being used by me a lot, but I really would like to figure out how to get it to work right using 3dDelight.

Any suggestions on what else i could try other than the Ray Trace Depth?

Comments

  • TotteTotte Posts: 11,200
    edited December 1969

    Hello,

    I called for Dumor3D (who did Wine Me) so he will come and answer. I never had any problems with it but he might know something forgot to think of

  • Dumor3DDumor3D Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    Hi stryder87!

    What version of Studio are you using? And yes, you should be able to get nice clear glass.

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for getting back to me so fast!

    I'm using the new v4.7.

  • Dumor3DDumor3D Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    OK, just ran some new tests in 4.7. If you don't have them in a scene, there is no light/reflections to pick up and they can look grey. I put these in A Curious Gazebo, just because it was handy and used one of BWC Sedor's skydomes. I have attached both the render and the settings I have used in 3DL.

    Let me know if that fixes it.

    Capture.JPG
    323 x 563 - 40K
    NewWineMeTest.jpg
    800 x 800 - 567K
  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    edited December 1969

    I'll give that a try when I get home and post the result.

    In the scene I have a bottle (1/3rd full) and a glass (2/3rd full) on a bedside table with a lamp right beside it, plus another glass (1/3rd full) on the floor beside the table. Granted, that one may not have much light hitting it, but the bottle and the glass on the table are right under a light. This is all within a bedroom, so there should be reflected light, even though the lights are a little dimmer as it's inside at night.

  • Dumor3DDumor3D Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    For a dark scene like that, you might want to try bumping the Ambient up to around 50% on full white. (Yeah, you shouldn't need ambient on glass but.... ) and set the Refraction down to 1.0 or 1.1. A small amount makes a big change in refraction. As you lower refraction, it will start to look more like plastic instead of glass/crystal. In a dark scene, it shouldn't really matter.

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    edited December 1969

    Excellent tips. Thanks! Hopefully I can get this working well. I love the product and the results you can get from it. Like I said, when I used Reality/Lux it worked just fine with the standard settings and Ray Trace set to 8.

  • Dumor3DDumor3D Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    stryder87 said:
    Excellent tips. Thanks! Hopefully I can get this working well. I love the product and the results you can get from it. Like I said, when I used Reality/Lux it worked just fine with the standard settings and Ray Trace set to 8.

    You may have spoiled yourself. It's really hard to beat the render quality you get on glass from a physically based render engine such as LuxRender or the new Iray in Studio Beta!

    I'm glad you are enjoying the product!

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    edited December 1969

    Dumor3D said:

    You may have spoiled yourself. It's really hard to beat the render quality you get on glass from a physically based render engine such as LuxRender or the new Iray in Studio Beta!

    Hah... I think I may have!

    So I've attached a small test render with the settings you mentioned, including the 50% ambient on all glass surfaces and the refraction strength of 1.10. Zooming in on the glass on the table and the floor (under Yumi's knees), the ones on the table look better than before, whereas the one on the floor is nearly invisible. It's most likely due to how dark the room is. It would be nice to have both a little clearer, and maybe the wine a little brighter red (I can probably adjust that, but I'm not sure how much it would really affect it with the low light), but for the most part, I can live with it.

    I'd like to figure out how to get rid of the graininess of the wall where the table lamps shine, plus smooth out the lamp shades and lamps themselves. If it didn't take 2 hours to do a simple test render, even at the lower settings, this would be a lot easier! :lol: These people who say they can do a render in 20 minutes baffle me. I don't have a slouch of a machine, but, for example, when I did this scene at 1680x945 with Ray Trace at 12, Pixels at 16 and Shadow at 20, it took over 20 hours! I'd love to know what settings people generally use to render with 3dDelight! Even doing this scene with the settings you suggested (at 1024x768), it took an hour to render.

    Dear_Diary_-_Test_04.png
    1024 x 768 - 1M
  • Dumor3DDumor3D Posts: 1,316
    edited December 1969

    You can most likely drop your ray trace back to at least 8 if not 6. You might try setting the shading rate to 0.1 or 0.2 to help with the grain. It will increase render times, but hey, you have to sleep sometime. :)

    Looking good! Just how I would expect to see a couple of girl friends 'discussing things'.

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    edited December 1969

    Thanks. There's still more to go into that scene, including an insert in the bottom right with a view of the diary page with writing on it. That's going to be some Photoshop learning there too. This is the first scene in probably about 20 or so that I'm planning on for the story. This one is taking so long to do because I'm learning everything with this one. I think I could have chosen an easier scene to start with, but it's been fun.

    It took over an hour just to do the arms and hands pose where Yumi is holding the ferret!! Manipulating every finger individually was tedious, but I think it turned out pretty good. I definitely saved that pose!! It was nearly another hour getting the pose and scale right for Miyuki to be holding the book how I liked it.

    Fun Fun! I just realized I have to figure out why Yumi has no shadows now.

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 6,827
    edited December 1969

    stryder87 said:
    I did some reading on another topic that was about Wine Me, what I basically got from it was the most important thing was to have the Max Ray Trace set to 6 or higher. When I had it set to 8, I did a couple test renders in Lux and the glasses were beautiful... crystal clear and really sharp.

    Just noticed this bit way back at the beginning. Note that Ray Trace Depth is a setting in the 3Delight renderer. Lux has its own equivalent settings — which are not affected by the 3Delight settings because Lux and 3Delight are different renderers — way down at the bottom of the long list of Render Settings parameters. I think the default value is 16, which explains why your test renders looked so good. Changing the Max Ray Trace value only does something in 3Delight.
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