Bryce terrains in Carrara
Roygee
Posts: 2,247
Hi all :)
In another thread, I undertook to share my experiences of using Bryce terrains in Carrara. Must emphasis that I am no expert in either and these are only my experiences - hopefully others can share their knowledge and we can all be the richer for them.
Why use Bryce terrains in Carrara? For one thing, simple curiosity - Carrara is capable of producing terrains as good as any, but this is a much neglected subject - I have only seen one comprehensive tut on terrains - very good, but really dated. Bryce is known for terrains, so how to use that advantage coupled with the much faster render times of Carrara.
There are two methods - either design in Bryce and export as .obj, or use the height map to get it into Carrara.
What I really like about Bryce's terrains is that I can design a custom terrain to be pretty exactly as I need it to be with its really great height-map function. Carrara doesn't give much scope for this and the height-map editing is pretty basic.
The first pic is of a terrain made and rendered in Bryce. I then exported the .obj, using the settings in the second pic. Note the high settings used for the terrain 256K polys - this I find necessary to get any reasonable definition. I use .tif to try to get the same texture into Carrara.
The third pic is what this looks like in Carrara - there isn't a great deal of definition and the texture is pretty bad, even with a lot of adjustment.
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The next pic uses a Carrara preset texture. Much better, but still lacking in definition.
Then I tried the height-map - see next pic, exported as .tif, as I find I don't get the stepping when using other formats.
If I bring this directly into Carrara, I get a flat plane, so I tone down the brightness to 50%.
Did a lot of editing in the terrain editor, mainly using the advanced fractal noise settings. The texture can do with a lot of work, but in general the definition is OK, but the final product looks nothing like the original Bryce terrain. Could just as well have designed the whole thing in Carrara :)
What I've found is that, if I want a very specific shape, my best bet is to design it in Bryce, import as .obj in Carrara and make my own textures - usually based on photographs of rocks. The disadvantage of this method is I don't then have access to Carrara's advanced terrain editing ability, but do get pretty much exactly the shape it started off as.
Love to hear from other users as to their methods and hopefully get an expert to give us some advice on designing specific terrains, as opposed to generic terrains, in Carrara.
After writing that lot, I though to try using the height-map, without editing in the Carrara terrain editor and using the original Bryce texture - actually not too shabby, as far as definition and reproduction of the original shape and texture goes.
This may be the right way to go! :)
Thank you to have started this thread.
I didn't test the heightmap yet because I don't know exactly how that works…
On the other hand, I tried to export in Collada and in 3DS, I have an object present in Carrara but it is simply an invisible point.
The format .lwo works well (like Cripeman in its tuto).
For textures, I tested .bmp and .tif: Carrara writes an error message…
The .jpeg works well.
I own the version Brice7 pro offered for free by DAZ one or two years ago, is there an update ?
Thanks, Roygee. I really appreciate you taking the time.
thanks roygee,
love that bryce height map
i wonder what would happen if you took the bryce height map and used it as displacement map on a carrara vertex plane?
dont have carrara at work so cant do it here :)
just thinking out loud - it makes the neighbours complain though,' stop that thinking' they yell over the fence
Great subject, Roygee!
In a further answer to the query: "Why use Bryce terrains in Carrara", in addition to your response of it being fun:
Fun is right, from what I know from perusing the Bryce 5 Artist guide.
I have no (yet) experience with making a Bryce terrain, but the instructions reveal an interesting method of using shapes and forces, sort of a Boolean method, adding, subtracting, then applying this and/or that... it is such an intriguing read that I always have it in the back of my mind to try it one day. I think that I even bought some (perhaps all? I'll have to check) of those Master Series products for it, and David Brinnen has a HUGE assortment of free tutorials for Bryce in their forum - not to mention Chohole's involvement of keeping that place alive.
Rock on, Roygee, and thanks for the inspiration and advice! ;)
Even without being updated for many years, however, Bryce is an amazing tool! If you don't own it already, you can for really close to free!
I haven't got past reading a good amount of the manual and installing it to my machine, and then opening it up a couple of times to gaze upon it's incredibly different interface with stuff all across the top to easily drop into the scene. I really need to just sit down and play for a few weeks with it. The manual is really a fun read! It reveals that we can do pretty much anything within Bryce, as it comes out-of-the-box.
Roygee got me Playing around with the height map from Bryce...
Applied it in Carrara and adjusted a couple of settings, duplicated the terrain a couple of times, applied a basic Carrara terrain texture and went looking for the Ark.
:-)
Gorgeous!
Also, the new 9.5 version of Dogwaffle Pro: Howler has new functionality included in the 3D Designer tool, where you can make a 3D setting via Height Maps, and erosion and sediment controls as well as texturing tools. Then you can export any of the maps. Although the textures are created using the 3D creation, it exports as a map that lays directly onto the mesh, so you can either use an exported height map or an exported obj (yes, it even exports obj of the results now!) in Carrara to get the results into true 3D scene manipulation. It also includes a particle system for making clouds, which is pretty fun.
Just thought I'd mention that since Howler 9.5 is on an introductory savings here at DAZ 3D right now ;)
Captain Stezza, terrific !! one question - how did you get the terrain tool to do those pigeons :)
El Dartanbeck Care to give us some examples of howler obj bought into Carrara? if so that would be grande :)
Captain Stezza, terrific !! one question - how did you get the terrain tool to do those pigeons :)
El Dartanbeck Care to give us some examples of howler obj bought into Carrara? if so that would be grande :)
OT I just bought Painter 2015 with its new particle brushes - they are nothing compared to those in Dogwaffler
Great terrain there, Stezza :)
Anyone interested in terrains should get Wilbur http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/wilbur.html
You use it to design terrains by generating height-maps - also converts USGS data to height-maps, so you can make terrains that look like actual geography, use Terragen terrains in Carrara and much more!
When you export a terrain as .obj from Bryce, it gives diffcol, ambicol and bumpamt maps. The diffcol and bumpampt are self-explanatory and ambicol probably means baked ambient - is there a slot in the Carrara texture editor where this can be placed to enhance the texture?
with great difficulty...
so I ended up using Ken Gillilands flock formations ... much easier for them to flock off ;-)
Thanks Mr Gee...
will that program do Uluru somehow?
Yes, if you can get the USGS data - the method of getting data is pretty complex, but if I can do it, anyone can:)
I once made a terrain of a rocky bay near where I live and it came out recognizable as such.
The link http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/
The data portion of the site is down for maintenance today, but will be up tomorrow.
I located Uluru on the site - see pic!
I assume the baked ambient refers to ambient light? What does the image map look like? If it is baked ambient light, you may not need it, but perhaps it could go in a multiplier in the glow channel along with the bump map? This is all sight unseen of course and is rampant speculation.
thanks roygee, I'll check it out when the site is back up and running ;-)
Okay, that babble aside, how do you like the new Painter? Corel Painter, you mean... right? Also, have you tried comparing classical painting methods between Painter and Dogwaffle? My first stab at Dogwaffle with my Wacom was in a hotel room with a freshly opened net book (Acer AspireOne 10.1") and I wanted to pretend it was a sketchbook. So I went to set up a fairly hard pencil, like a 5H, and was amazed at the fact that, the first time trying, I had a 5H pencil! Sketched a cool picture, but didn't save it. I think I actually wrecked it completely with my then inabilities with understanding the program! LOL But I was wondering if you feel that Painter is worth so much more compared to the wonderfully named Project Dogwaffle? I mean, if you don't want/need animation tools, the Artist edition is almost free half the time.
from me too
I tried to get some data on Nobbys Headland to run through sketchup but it looked like a pimple at the end
and I was too lazy to model it by hand :( as I had 24 images of different locales to do
do you think there would be enough data for this
?
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Nobbys+Lighthouse/@-32.9184049,151.7979041,19z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000:0xe77a854006dca5ed
google nobbys headland newcastle for pics (sorry took link out cuase broke thread :)
Okay, that babble aside, how do you like the new Painter? Corel Painter, you mean... right? Also, have you tried comparing classical painting methods between Painter and Dogwaffle? My first stab at Dogwaffle with my Wacom was in a hotel room with a freshly opened net book (Acer AspireOne 10.1") and I wanted to pretend it was a sketchbook. So I went to set up a fairly hard pencil, like a 5H, and was amazed at the fact that, the first time trying, I had a 5H pencil! Sketched a cool picture, but didn't save it. I think I actually wrecked it completely with my then inabilities with understanding the program! LOL But I was wondering if you feel that Painter is worth so much more compared to the wonderfully named Project Dogwaffle? I mean, if you don't want/need animation tools, the Artist edition is almost free half the time.
sorry dart I just saw this!!!
Painter Corel is fine. I really liked the dogwaffle version I used for a while, but being a photoshop user it was based on a different set of ideas and so I couldn't get my head around it. I had trouble with the layer structure (were there layers?) Also the tutorials were many and varied and the people who designed the program very helpful but I didn't find enough structure in the tutorials.
I think it's because Dogwaffle et al is so powerful that it's hard for a new user to know where to start and it's hard for the people who know the program back to front to get into the mindset of a new user - it happens a lot I think.
Corel Painter's big advantage is that it has a very large tutorial base made by quite a few different people, some of who are making a living ? from their tutorials. So the free ones are usually made to get you onto the program and the idea is to lure you along to that tutor's paid tutorials. There is even a free online video manual for several hours (or less) to teach you the interface.
So with Corel Painter I can decide what my target might be and goi searching for tuts on that specific thing.
So far I have spent about 8 hours doing tuts. If you were to become wonderful at it I would say add a few years to that - same as Carrara :)
With Painter I can see it fitting well into a workflow that uses Carrar's different render passes to bash around Carrara's renders. I'm looking for the hand made look for my CG work and I still havn't found it but by using Painter's cloning tools and using carrar's object pass as an alpha selection tool it will make life much easier .
The new Painter cost me 99 dollars to upgrade. It was almost worth it compared to painter x3.
Of course Howler is a bargain compared to that!
The real cost of any program is the hours you put into it as opposed to the meagre cost of the program itself.
as an aside - many of the PS brushes that I see popping up here in the Daz store could be easily made in Corel Painter with the new particle brushes - once you know enough about them
second aside - I have a mid sized intuous 5 - that makes Painter sparkle
HW broke the thread.. lol :vampire:
sorry I will fix it up :(
Good call, EP - Bryce has "True Ambience" which does wonders for renders - not at all like Carrara's Ambience. The map looks exactly like the diffuse - multiplying it with the bump map in the glow channel and toning down the brightness really brings the colours to life :)
HW - I'm sure there will be good detail for Nobby's Point - the site is down at the moment, so can't check. You Ozzies really have a way with names, eh!
Just re-acquainting myself with the free version of Terragen after a few years non-use. It is truly amazing, with a planet-wide terrain, correct horizon, true atmosphere and natural light. This render is after a few minutes work, without getting much into textures and doing nothing for atmosphere.
If I had the spare money, this is the one application I would buy.
that bottom one is a fine render Roy!
thanks for looking at Nobbys !
on names: our past Parliamentary 'member' s name was Richard Face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Face
Yikes - that first one looks a lot ...yellower..than it did when rendered - will have to tone down more :)
I can only see half the first render unless I slide down in my chair a lot ;)
Maybe see an optometrist :)
Here's Nobby's Lighthouse!
The data portion of the site is back up - so long since I've used, will have to get a new password.
Cheers
OK - here you go - register at this website, get the DEM data, stick it in Wilbur, export the height-map into Carrara (use .tif, otherwise you get stepping) and you should be good to go :)
http://nedf.ga.gov.au/geoportal/catalog/main/home.page