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I need help and advice on building a new computer.

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  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,726
    edited December 1969

    Takeo.Kensei said:
    The only question I'd ask regarding your config is the PSU. Right now it is well over dimensioned regarding your components. I'd say your config will need around 450-500W at full charge at most which leaves more than 350 W for room which is only needed if you plan to later get a dual TITAN SLI and a few more HDD and a water cooling system for example

    If you don't plan to get any of those and will only add some HDD later, you could take a smaller PSU (650 W is enough)

    Depending on the PSU and what additional hardware you want to protect, you'll have to size your choice for the UPS. For 850W you'll have to get a 1500 VA model (usual unit measurement for UPS is Volt-Ampere). Some vendors sometime indicate the max wattage of their products

    You could buy an APC : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842301289
    Never had problems with that one. There is an other version with an SMT battery wich is more expensive but the battery will last longer

    Im OK with that.
    How do you determine the VA that youll need for a particular system?

    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Systems – Pure Sine Wave | 100% Active PFC compatible
    N82E16842102134

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167
    edited December 1969

    recepticle0 said:
    Takeo.Kensei said:
    The only question I'd ask regarding your config is the PSU. Right now it is well over dimensioned regarding your components. I'd say your config will need around 450-500W at full charge at most which leaves more than 350 W for room which is only needed if you plan to later get a dual TITAN SLI and a few more HDD and a water cooling system for example

    If you don't plan to get any of those and will only add some HDD later, you could take a smaller PSU (650 W is enough)

    Depending on the PSU and what additional hardware you want to protect, you'll have to size your choice for the UPS. For 850W you'll have to get a 1500 VA model (usual unit measurement for UPS is Volt-Ampere). Some vendors sometime indicate the max wattage of their products

    You could buy an APC : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842301289
    Never had problems with that one. There is an other version with an SMT battery wich is more expensive but the battery will last longer

    Im OK with that.
    How do you determine the VA that youll need for a particular system?

    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Systems – Pure Sine Wave | 100% Active PFC compatible
    N82E16842102134

    thats overkill, it's a server class solution, and the point of a UPS is to shut down safeliy, not continue working. Any UPS you buy should not cost more than $50 to $100 US and be between 350 and 500 Watts if you buy one. I just threw three out because the batteries died after a few years and if you price the shipping on those batteries it's not worth replacing them,.

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,222
    edited April 2014

    SixDs said:
    Now that you have all of your components selected, I'll chime in with a few bits of advice for a first-time builder.

    1. ESD - electrostatic discharge. That's what most folks call static electricity. It is the silent killer of computer components. Chances are you'll never even be aware that it happened. Computer components are designed to take up to 12 volts of current, and many far, far less than that. Imagine sending a charge through them 10 or 100 times that. So, either get and use a grounding strap during assembly, or at least regularly ground yourself on the metal of your case before handling components. Do not assemble your new computer standing on a carpet.

    2. Oily fingers. I know some folks who actually wear cotton gloves during assembly, but that may be extreme. Just take care not to touch any contacts, such as those on your ram or video card when handling them. The oil from your fingers is corrosive.

    3. I recommend assembling the basic system outside the case. That is to say prior to installing the motherboard. It is a real pain to discover a problem after everything has been mounted inside. To function, all you need is the CPU and heatsink installed, at least one stick ot ram, the video card and the power supply. That should enable you to boot to your BIOS and ensure everything is working properly. You will need to install the CPU and heatsink before mounting the motherboard in the case anyway, since installing a large heatsink assembly with the motherboard inside is difficult at best, and often impossible. When testing, ensure that the motherboard is resting on an antistatic surface. Noooo! The box your motherboard came in will do in a pinch. The I/O plate for the video card can hang over one edge. Ideally, a spare switch should be used to turn the power on and off to the motherboard, but if you are extremely careful, you can use a small flat-bladed screwdriver to short the two power pins. Just make certain that you touch the correct ones and only the correct ones.

    4. If everything checks out so far, you can now disconnect the power supply and remove the video card and install the motherboard in the case, along with all your other components. It is best to do this with the case resting on its side with the open side up. Remember to keep yourself grounded. Once everything is installed and you are certain that all the necessary cables have been connected (check twice), you can power the system up and do a second check. I recommend that you run diagnostics on both your hard drives and memory before going further to ensure that there are no problems there. These utilities can be downloaded from the manufacturers in the case of drives, or Memtest in the case of memory, and can be run from a removable boot device like a thumb drive.

    Lastly, if you have a friend with experience in building PCs, you might want to invite them over to assist during the whole thing, as doing it the first time can be a little daunting. Just make sure that it isn't someone that is inclined to cut corners.

    If I have sounded a little dictatorial here, I apologize. It is not really a difficult task if it is done properly, but it also something that should not be done in a cavalier manner. I hope everything goes well.

    Edit: One more thing that I forgot to mention - never, ever under any circumstances work on your PC with the power supply plugged into the wall socket, even if the PC is turned off. The reason for this is that the power supply is designed to provide a standby current to the motherboard at all times to save on battery power and supply the necessary power to maintain your BIOS settings. Working with the power supply plugged in risks shorting a component.

    Any quality circuit board will have gold plated contacts. Gold does not corrode, erode or develop an oxide. Fingerprints will not eat away contacts, however a layer of grime or grease may inhibit a solid connection. Fingerprints are acidic and will corrode steel if left unchecked especially blued gunmetal.
    With respect with ESD, I do not like the out of case assembly. First thing that should get installed is the Power Supply in a case, then it should be plugged in to properly grounded AC outlet with the P/S switch in the OFF position. (Not Case power switch!) This will ensure the case is grounded before you install any electronic components. Also before screwing down the motherboard, DO Count the bolt holes and mark (circle with Sharpie) standoff's used or needed on the Case CPU pan area and REMOVE ALL UNUSED/INTERFERING STANDOFFS. Double check before installing motherboard and refer to mobo user manual to ensure you identified all the grounded installation bolt holes. This will help ensure you fry your motherboards components against a improperly located grounded contact     Anti-Static bags are metallic and are designed to conduct rather than the reverse - it protects the unpowered circuit board like a Faraday cage. Applying juice to a board resting with its contacts on a anti-static conductive surface should short, and would likely be a disaster in the making.

    Post edited by Dream Cutter on
  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,241
    edited April 2014

    recepticle0 said:

    How do you determine the VA that youll need for a particular system?

    APC has a handy-dandy UPS selector at http://www.apc.com/tools/ups_selector/US/en/home/load that lets you plug in numbers like your system wattage (remember to add up ALL your components that will be plugged in) and how many minutes/hours you want to run, then spits out a list of their products that will fit the bill. Of course you can look at the VA values of those results and then look at the competitor's products in the same range too.
    Post edited by sriesch on
  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited April 2014

    StratDragon said:
    recepticle0 said:
    Takeo.Kensei said:
    The only question I'd ask regarding your config is the PSU. Right now it is well over dimensioned regarding your components. I'd say your config will need around 450-500W at full charge at most which leaves more than 350 W for room which is only needed if you plan to later get a dual TITAN SLI and a few more HDD and a water cooling system for example

    If you don't plan to get any of those and will only add some HDD later, you could take a smaller PSU (650 W is enough)

    Depending on the PSU and what additional hardware you want to protect, you'll have to size your choice for the UPS. For 850W you'll have to get a 1500 VA model (usual unit measurement for UPS is Volt-Ampere). Some vendors sometime indicate the max wattage of their products

    You could buy an APC : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842301289
    Never had problems with that one. There is an other version with an SMT battery wich is more expensive but the battery will last longer

    Im OK with that.
    How do you determine the VA that youll need for a particular system?

    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Systems – Pure Sine Wave | 100% Active PFC compatible
    N82E16842102134

    thats overkill, it's a server class solution, and the point of a UPS is to shut down safeliy, not continue working. Any UPS you buy should not cost more than $50 to $100 US and be between 350 and 500 Watts if you buy one. I just threw three out because the batteries died after a few years and if you price the shipping on those batteries it's not worth replacing them,.

    Don't think it's overkill. For a server I'd use at least a 19" Rackable UPS and size depending on the power need but certainly not the Smart UPS 1500 VA.

    If you buy a 350 W or 500 W UPS it will certainly not provide enough power to maintain the equipments online more than 2 min if you're lucky as it is undersized. Just the PSU takes 850 W and you are well under with these. And this will kill the battery faster thus having to change it more often. If you add other equiments like the monitor and other things you will certainly reach the 1000 W and even the 1500VA could be short. I don't see where a 50-100 $ UPS could do the job. I never tried low cost UPS nor tried with undersized one and these may work but I wouldn't be confident

    I personally don't have an UPS at home and never felt the need till now. I already had some power fail while doing things with my computer at home and I never had a dead PC because of that. And I don't think I ever lost a lot of work because of power failure. So I don't feel the need to protect my computer till now but that is my choice. If one wants to use one, I can only say the Smart UPS 1500 VA is a good product as I use it at work. The battery usually last 2-3 years which is what is expected if well configured and provided your electrical environment is stable (and a few tweaks that could help)

    @recepticle0 : Calculation is a bit complicated and depends on the vendor and your localization. There is a power factor that I think is 0.6 for these kind of capacity
    Here are some links for understanding
    http://www.upsonnet.com/Articles/mind-watts-whem-specifying-ups.html
    http://www.processor.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/P3119/15bp19/15a___15bp19.asp

    Post edited by Takeo.Kensei on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    The old notifications have gone AWOL again, but, it sounds like this is going to be quite the machine once it's built. All I need for mine now is the keyboard, a couple of SATA cables and the OS. Then comes the fun bit, putting it all together.

    Hope your build goes well

    CHEERS!

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384
    edited May 2014

    Anti-Static bags are metallic and are designed to conduct rather than the reverse

    You're quite correct and what I meant to say, and should have, was to place the motherboard on a non-conductive surface, like the cardboard box that the motherboard came in. (original post duly edited)

    As for building outside versus inside the case, we'll just have to agree to disagree. :)

    (BTW, although it always better to be safe than sorry and I would never deliberately recommend using an antistatic bag as a base for PC assembly, you might want to take one out and give your multimeter a go - touch the probes anywhere you like. Interesting, no? Things are not always what they seem.)

    Post edited by SixDs on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Well, here we are, almost one month on, and, I've finally started building my PC!

    I got the OS a couple of days ago and have now mounted the power supply in the case and will make a start on the motherboard a little later. It does seem like a daunting task and one part of me has been dreading, but, there's no going back now, it has to be done!

    I'm sure there are kindly folk on here and out there who will be able to guide me should I come unstuck. Oh, and to the OP, I must ask how your build is going, are you making good progress? Do let us know.

    Wish me luck folks, I may well need some!

    CHEERS!

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited June 2014

    Good to hear. And Luck Folks, no idea why you wanted that bit but you did ask... ;-)

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Thanks,

    It should, fingers crossed, be plain sailing, we shall see.....

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    It's been a hot and humid time round here, I just couldn't get anything done. Now, however, it has cooled down enough and I have now installed my CPU and fan and have connected the CPU fan to the motherboard. Not sure how much more I can do today as I cut my finger and might open it up again if I do too much with it.

    Next up is getting the drives into the case and then it's time to add the memory to the motherboard, IF the cool weather continues..........

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Small update,

    I managed to fit the drives earlier and plug in their relevant SATA cables. I have to say, when you get over your nerves and just get down to it, everything seems straightforward and I have yet to hit any snags.

    I do hope recepticle0's build is progressing, do come by and let us know. Mind you, the lack of posts could be a sign that it hasn't! (Hope not though!)

    CHEERS!

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    glad to hear your moving along well. Let us know when it goes live. Nothing like a new PC to get that Wow factor from.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, I will,

    I'm hoping to install the memory later today.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    The memory is in and now so is the motherboard itself,

    Getting the screw holes to line up and getting the shield that fits round the I/O ports to fit in took some work, but I managed it and all the sockets are accessible and I can plug what I need to into them. Next comes the biggie wiring it all up, oh boy.....

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Well, that's the wiring all done,

    That was the most nerve wracking part! There was a hairy moment when it looked like the chassis fan lead wasn't going to reach. Some berk on the production line had fed the cable through a part of the fan housing where it wasn't supposed to go, once I'd freed each individual wire, thankfully, the cable was then able to reach. Whew! You won't have a very cool computer if you can't connect the chassis fan up!

    Next job is to install the graphics card and hook that up to the power supply. Then comes that big moment when you connect up the keyboard, mouse and monitor, plug it in and hope to god it all works! Oooh mama!

    CHEERS!

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited June 2014

    Sounds Good. Well done and Let me know how it goes. Seems like only I pop in to see. I really want to see how well your build runs, I miss my days of hand builds.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Thanks,

    There's not much on TV tonight, so, I may pop the graphics card in and hopefully put the case sides on for the last time. I don't know how much time I'll have for the next couple of days, but, I hope to have something running by the weekend.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Small update,

    The graphics card went in. I'd forgotten how big it was! I had to relocate my hard drive in order to get the graphics card in the bay, then I had to site the SATA data cables in sockets where I could actually get to them. Thankfully, all the SATA sockets are the same so it didn't matter where I plugged them in.

    A word of warning to anyone building a PC with a mini tower, plan your connections carefully as it's gonna get tight in there!

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited June 2014

    Well folks, the new beast is running, but, it isn't working properly just yet.

    I just can't get the graphics card drivers to install, when I do install them I get black screens and then a desktop with no icons! This is driving me up the wall!!

    Hopefully I'll be able to get this sorted before too long

    CHEERS!

    PS (The HDD light doesn't work as there's a broken wire, but I can live without that. It's the graphics card I can't live without!)

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Well people.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCBvu_kijo

    Yep, I got that pesky video card driver sorted! Now it's a case of getting DS, Vue and Photoshop installed and we'll be cooking with gas!

    HALLELUJAH!

    CHEERS!

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    ...The HDD light doesn't work as there's a broken wire,...


    9 times out of 10 it's the wire is reversed if it's more than one lead to the motherboard.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    That was my initial thought, but, I checked the plugs and one definitely had a loose wire. Never mind, that was the least of my worries!

    CHEERS!

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167
    edited December 1969

    those wires just pop in and out, no special tools needed but your HD is pretty much always spinning so an LED to tell you this is just distracting. Good luck with the computer and have fun!

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Great to hear its up and running!! What kind of rating you getting on it compared to your old build? Bet your loving it.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited June 2014

    I got the HDD light fixed, it was the wires crossed.

    Also, the problem with the screen wasn't the graphics card driver, it was the display settings. Windows thought I wanted to put my desktop on my TV! I have it hooked up to the graphics card with an HDMI lead so I can watch videos on it. All I had to do was set each display to duplicate the other and make my monitor my primary display. The thing was, Windows never asked what I wanted to do with my display settings, it just assumed it knew best. Before I duplicated the diplays, it was set to extend, when I installed and loaded DS it would load it onto my TV. I didn't realise this till I switched my TV on, I thought DS had crashed.

    Here are the scores according to the Windows Experience Index:

    Processor: 7.4

    Memory: 7.8

    Graphics: 7.7

    Gaming Graphics: 7.7

    Primary Hard Disk: 5.9

    That's WAY better than any laptop I've had. Building this could be the best move I've ever made!

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    I got the HDD light fixed, it was the wires crossed.

    Also, the problem with the screen wasn't the graphics card driver, it was the display settings. Windows thought I wanted to put my desktop on my TV! I have it hooked up to the graphics card with an HDMI lead so I can watch videos on it. All I had to do was set each display to duplicate the other and make my monitor my primary display. The thing was, Windows never asked what I wanted to do with my display settings, it just assumed it knew best. Before I duplicated the diplays, it was set to extend, when I installed and loaded DS it would load it onto my TV. I didn't realise this till I switched my TV on, I thought DS had crashed.

    Here are the scores according to the Windows Experience Index:

    Processor: 7.4

    Memory: 7.8

    Graphics: 7.7

    Gaming Graphics: 7.7

    Primary Hard Disk: 5.9

    That's WAY better than any laptop I've had. Building this could be the best move I've ever made!

    CHEERS!

    if you have a 7600 RPM Sata HD you will always get a 5.9, if you get a SSD it will go up and your wallet will empty out quicker, they're not really cost effective for big runtimes or long term storage either.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 13,439
    edited December 1969

    If you have a SSD you pretty much have to have a secondary drive or external HD for runtimes.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    SSD's aren't something I really want to bother with. I have a 1TB hard drive and 2 externals, one is 500gb and the other is 2TB. I have plenty of storage. Most of my scenes and renders are on the 500gb one and I have used up less than 1gb on that.

    This thing runs sweet, no off the shelf machine would have come close. One thing I will never do is check all my Paypal invoices and work out how much I spent on it. That would be frightening!

    CHEERS!

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Nice ratings... and as for SSD's they are nice but need some understanding to help keep the life span high. Like moving all temp Folders off of it. They tend to read/write to the same area and that alone will age the drive needlessly.

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