In the dark about scene composition
murph101
Posts: 68
Does anyone have recommendations for tutorials, blogs, books, youtube vids, etc. on design concepts?
Here's my situation. I've been tinkering with Carrara for several years now, have done many pics illustrating a novel I'm working on. I thought I was doing pretty good at assembling various models into a several scenes.
One day recently, my son, who is 24, takes a look at some stuff I've been working on and starts commenting about flow and direction of the scene. He sounds pretty authoritative and claims that his Visual Communications class in high school is where he gets all this info. He also works in video game development, but from a producer's standpoint, as opposed to being an artist.
This piques my curiosity and makes me realize that I'm missing a whole lot of knowledge on scene composition, etc. But, I don't know where to start looking. Typing in keywords into google and I get overload on things that are not specifically related. I'm afraid to search in Amazon for fear of being similarly overwhelmed.
I'd really like to have some insight into what I should be trying to do when composing a scene. I know how to plunk things into a scene, change camera angles, throw some lights, etc., and have done some posters and book covers. But how do I learn how to make a good scene great?
I figure this community would likely have encountered such learning resources and, given we're working in the same medium, what does anyone here recommend.
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Not that I'm an expert by any means, but I was given a mini tut by Roberto Melo, who created the Bruuna character. To start with, look up the Rule of Thirds. Also, the Golden Spiral. These are the basic compositional methods. There are also rules for cropping or framing a human (or inhuman!) figure. A flow of energy or form that follows the Golden Spiral makes a very pleasing image. The Rule of Thirds keeps things from looking like mug shots.
if it looks right and feels right then it is right
I have had people add comments 3 years later - telling me how much
they like what I had posted then - they just didn't get it at the time .
if you like it don't worry about it - listening to people will drive you nuts .
I have a rep for being the rule of thirds guy. It really is one of the simplest composition techniques and it is quite effective. Basically you divide your image in thirds horizontally and vertically. Instead of centering your subject, place them on one of the thirds lines. This produces an image that is more pleasing to the human eye.
Use of line is also important. Once I choose the subject ( main figure in the scene ) I then line up other elements so that their lines point toward the subject. Its like having invisible arrows telling the viewer where to look.
Here is a really crappy image i did a long time ago, i drew arrows to show how the lines point to my subject
If it is available, you might want to consider auditing a visual communication or graphic design course.
Avoid things to touch the border of the image (or other elements), it creates tension. It's either in or out.
Otherwise I have no rules myself. Just try to make it look pretty. LOL
If you were using DAZ Studio I would recommend my Golden Rules Camera Prop. Its free, there are some examples of many of the composition rules in the PDF that I included. Maybe just check it and do a Google or other search for the Rules of Composition in art and photography.
Or, for that matter, photography. The composition principles are the same.
About the only area where the Rule of Thirds gets broken regularly is the pinup. In a pinup, a (usually) human figure is centered in the frame, but then the rules for framing figures apply. Put the eyes 1/3 down from the top of the frame. There's still a Rule of Thirds there, even if the figure is dead center.
Lycanthrope knows his stuff.
A more intangible concept is making an image stand out. Giving a scene punch is more difficult to grasp. Glowing eyes, motion blur, muzzle flash, these are things to put in to give something punch once you've got the composition basics down.
May sound strange, but try NOT to obey any rules! Why? Because there are no rules in art!
Of course there are some basic methods, like the rule (?) of thirds, color theories and so on. But always thinking about those "rules" really can block your creativity.
The rule of thirds, for example, is more for photographers to make some kinds of motives more interesting. Just watch some images in the gallery and you will see how few of them - even the greatest and best ones - actually follow the rule of thirds.
What I really can recommend is watching and analysing!
Watch some images that you really like and try to analyse WHY the look so good. Is it a special camera frame that makes it so outstanding, is it the lighning, the colors, is it anything else? And then try to create something similar. This way you can learn a lot.
I picked up the trick of aligning other things in the scene so as to point to the subject from studying the paintings of Leonardo Di Vinci. It was a technique he used quite a bit. If it was good enough for him, its good enough for me.
I often start an image in Paintshop Pro. I create a blank white image, then add lines to mark the rule of thirds, usually in black, on a new layer in a different color i draw a stick figure of my main subject, then on a new layer i add stick figures for other characters and important objects in the scene. I may add another layer with a rough idea where my lights will be. I even make notes to my self. Then I import that as my background image in poser and use it as a reference as i work on my scene. Its all just loose crappy looking stick figures and scribbles, lines and arrows, it doesn't have to be good, no one will ever see it, its just a guide as you work on your image.
The thing is you have to learn the rules before you can break them. When I look at renders I can usually tell who has a background in traditional art and who never did any art before getting into computer rendering. Those who have a background in traditional art just have better looking images, they understand the "rules" and how to apply them to 3D.
Instead of thinking of the rules as boundaries that hinder creativity, I think of them more like short cut tools, once you learn them, you can easily put them into practice so you don't have to spend hours fiddling trying to get something to look right and not knowing why it doesn't look right. As i am thinking about a new piece i know if i put this here and that there then the image will look good, so that is where i start and work from there. Not using the "rules" is like trying to draw a perfect circle free hand instead of using a compass. A lot of artists buck when you you bring up the "rules" of art. They like to think that to be creative means to have no rules, no boundaries. They are not rules in the sense of right and wrong. I think a better way to think of them is as "tools" to help you be more effective in your work, rather than as "rules"
maybe think of it like this, if you have to pound a nail, do you want to use a hammer or do you want to be free and creative and just use your bare hand and not be restricted and confined to hammer use?
totaly agree with Lycan's last post,those rules are there for a reason
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232819
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1McYZX6KScg&list=PL29B6AAD9E6889E91
Yes, of course that is perfectly true. But this is a very common mistake that all beginners do. I know that, because I made the same mistakes when I was starting with 3D :-)
Many beginners wonder why their images do not look as good as others. Then they read about composition rules, framing rules, rules for this and rules for that. And now they think: "Hey, if I obey all these rules then I will make good looking images". But unfortunately this is not true. Thats why I said that there are no rules in art.
All those, lets call them "guidelines", are here to help in certain moments. They are really just tools. But simply obeying those tools and guidlines is no guarantee for creating better art.
Yes, of course that is perfectly true. But this is a very common mistake that all beginners do. I know that, because I made the same mistakes when I was starting with 3D :-)
Many beginners wonder why their images do not look as good as others. Then they read about composition rules, framing rules, rules for this and rules for that. And now they think: "Hey, if I obey all these rules then I will make good looking images". But unfortunately this is not true. Thats why I said that there are no rules in art.
All those, lets call them "guidelines", are here to help in certain moments. They are really just tools. But simply obeying those tools and guidlines is no guarantee for creating better art.
Well yeah, the ability to swing a hammer does not make you a master carpenter either, but using a hammer instead of your bare hands to pound nails is a step in the right direction :D
I agree 100%, just because they are called RULES, even in class they were called rules, my teacher often pointed out Rules are made to be broken. So look at it all as just guidelines. Nothing works every time for every image.
I started in traditional art, I've been studying art since before i even started school. I was a freelance cartoonist for 3 years. I've been a freelance artist since I was 17. I apply the rules of traditional art no matter if i am doing traditional art, photography, or film making. My work has been displayed in 2 museums. I took first place in 43 render contests in a single year. I took 2nd place in 9 contest, and 3rd in 7 contests that same year. I have won thousands of dollars in software. I won first place in the first animation contest I ever entered.
The rules work for me.
I honestly recommend tutorials on drawing and photography
You may find some links in this list that will help
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/325/
Take a look at the FZD School channel on youtube. Run by a chap named Feng Zhu. He's a 2D concept artist. His work is breathtaking. He has some great tips on composition, lighting, colour value etc as he talks his way though a project.
Also try 3dtotal DOT com. Many great tutorials to be had.
There's plenty to learn in those Feng Zhu school videos, thanks for the headsup. Screen cap from episode
Yes. He makes it look easy. He's a genius!!
plenty to learn from Sun Tsu too :D
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I did a quick look-see of 'The Secret to Composition' tutorial by Lulie. It was simple but very illuminating. I will likely follow the other links to other tutorials, especially the Marvel Comics, and Feng Zhu videos when I'm at a place where I can listen.
I agree on "rules", "tools", "guidelines" and breaking them.
In my limited experience in this world, rules are the foundations that, by following them, a beginner will be able to do a reasonably good job. Without knowing of their existence, a beginner will look like a fool.
For the talented, rules are but second nature, and breaking them becomes genius.
I'm just trying to stop looking like a fool. Thank you everyone! You're all very generous.
While studying for my MFA, I learned that it was important you learn the rules, understand the rules, become proficient in them and then start breaking them.
Another tool, more advanced, but not free:
http://atrise.com/golden-section/