Daz! pls why no usefull Posingtool in studio??

RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,203
edited December 1969 in The Commons

this is about posing characters with bones
power pose-no pelvis, no second Abdomen
activepose-no Rotation
else- no effective pinning
is there an update on this ?
how about perhaps a root between feet or in the head-not in the middle
i know ist a dead horse already
but what is a Programm like Studio without decent posing?

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Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 43,940
    edited December 1969

    The feet couldn't be the root as there are two of them and only one root.

  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,100
    edited December 1969

    ruphuss said:
    this is about posing characters with bones
    power pose-no pelvis, no second Abdomen
    activepose-no Rotation
    else- no effective pinning
    is there an update on this ?
    how about perhaps a root between feet or in the head-not in the middle
    i know ist a dead horse already
    but what is a Programm like Studio without decent posing?

    Because all the pose creators here, who have to spend hours over hours to get some good results, would be unemployed in a moment :-)

  • WilmapWilmap Posts: 2,795
    edited December 1969

    There's a free template for Genesis Powerpose at ShareCG.

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/66074/browse/9/Plug-in/Genesis-Template-for-PowerPose

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,203
    edited December 1969

    @wilmap thx for that i hope it helps a bit
    next issue you can't move 2 thighs at once in activepose

    @Richard how nice for posing it would be if you could at first root the feet and then all the nodes pose as you like
    thats how gravity works
    who in the world came on that bad idea Setting the root in the middle of the Body?
    ah i see a Zenbuddist-_Hara

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,203
    edited December 1969

    the Genesis powerpose did Show up in Studio for me -thats nice
    pinning does nothing here -not nice

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,455
    edited December 1969

    Because the hip bone is the root of all poses, its tilt defines the overall action and balance of the figure. What I would like to know is why was a redundant Pelvis bone added?

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,646
    edited October 2013

    The hip where you begin rigging a figure. It's also the center of gravity for the human body.

    The pelvis is not common to all rigged figures. Adding it may have improved bending.

    Post edited by icprncss on
  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited October 2013

    This has been one of my gripes about the posing system in DS. I get easier posing using the Cookie Flexrig in Blender. I'm no master animator or anything, but I've managed to put a few animations together in Blender. I have no idea how I could ever accomplish the same thing in DAZ Studio with it's current character posing system, at least as far as I understand it.

    https://vimeo.com/user19091117

    Try making this walk cycle in DAZ Studio...

    https://vimeo.com/69081996

    Post edited by daveleitz on
  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,203
    edited December 1969

    @daveleitz68 very nice Motion
    and ist not true that the Center of gravity is in the hip
    its a Point somewhere between whats touching the ground
    and Motion always depends on whats touching the ground
    how about a moveable root?

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,203
    edited December 1969

    The hip where you begin rigging a figure

    why?

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'm sort of wondering what this is all about. I pinned Genesis feet and posed this with Active Pose just now.

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  • ScraverXScraverX Posts: 151
    edited December 1969

    Having come from a 3D Studio Max background, I can say that there are quite a few ways to rig a character and (at least when I was studying 6 or so years ago) rigging was somewhat of a specific skill set. You tend to learn one or two approaches and then develop your own adaptations, study other people's rigging systems, and so forth.

    Some rigs are easier to get your head around then others there is also the fact that when you rig a character in Max or Maya you 'build' your direction and rotation sliders as you go.
    In a program like Daz Studio that is supposed to be relatively simple; adding dials or sliders or whatever other tools would result in less skilled people giving up.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,646
    edited December 1969

    One, DAZ originally took it's rigging from Poser. Poser traditionally rigs beginning with the hip. I don't have access to my reference library but I believe it may have something to do with it being central and all other bones spreading outward from it in parent/child relation.

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,203
    edited December 1969

    sometimes the Pins work, then they float around getting blue with a string to the Point where they should be
    now try to move the pelvis with activpose
    now try to grab two thighs at once
    now try to rotate a Joint
    i know you can force a Rotation through Translation
    but thats very unpredictable
    but if you want some random poses this tool is good for you

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 556
    edited October 2013

    the pins do not work, as soon as you manipulate (rotating the hip)

    it's a problem that was reported 2 years ago and is known by the daz dev team (it's a problem with IK/FK setup)

    you can find vids, on my channel that show the problem very well.

    as long the kinematics do not work as they should, animation on you own is a no go!
    only waste of a lot of time.

    i only would jump on the new genesis stuff, as soon as they get this fixed.
    and studio have more useful tools for animation
    and "realtime softbody simulation"
    and a genesis platform to other software.

    then call me the $$$ price of the program and we will talk again.
    until that day MODO make's me happy and runs fine for me :lol:

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 43,940
    edited October 2013

    fixme12 said:
    the pins do not work, as soon as you manipulate (rotating the hip)

    Hardly surprising, in the default pose, since any manipulation of the hip around x, and most manipulation around y and z, is going to pull the feet up. Moving the hip to give a bit of flexion before rotating, however, works better - though it might well be preferable to have the rotation blocked rather than the pins give way.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    How is the posing system in Carrara? Is it better than DS or does Genesis work the same no matter what?

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 5,414
    edited December 1969

    This has been one of my gripes about the posing system in DS. I get easier posing using the Cookie Flexrig in Blender. I'm no master animator or anything, but I've managed to put a few animations together in Blender. I have no idea how I could ever accomplish the same thing in DAZ Studio with it's current character posing system, at least as far as I understand it.

    https://vimeo.com/user19091117

    Try making this walk cycle in DAZ Studio...

    https://vimeo.com/69081996

    Looks great. Is that Sam in the walk cycle?

  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    This has been one of my gripes about the posing system in DS. I get easier posing using the Cookie Flexrig in Blender. I'm no master animator or anything, but I've managed to put a few animations together in Blender. I have no idea how I could ever accomplish the same thing in DAZ Studio with it's current character posing system, at least as far as I understand it.

    https://vimeo.com/user19091117

    Try making this walk cycle in DAZ Studio...

    https://vimeo.com/69081996

    Looks great. Is that Sam in the walk cycle?

    Thanks! That is the Cookie Flexrig. In a way, the CF in Blender is like Genesis in DS. You can dial in character variations on the base figure to get a wide number of shapes, sizes, and colors.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAY3JbI4jBs

    I exported an obj of Toon Boy Sam to Blender and scaled my Flexrig character to his proportions. There are limits, of course. I couldn't make the face like Sam (theoretically possible but more difficult), and the clothing variants are limited.

    Wouldn't it be great to take my scenes fully functional from DS into Blender? No, mcjTeleblender is not good enough for me. I spent way, way too much time fixing materials to my liking for it to work in any kind of fast workflow. Better yet, fix the posing tools in DS! I happen to like 3Delight more and more as I get used to it.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,646
    edited December 1969

    DS had a better posing tool at one time. It was called Pantomime. DAZ chose to add the rather scaled back and limited (when compared to Pantomime) Puppeteer to DS2. There were promises form DAZ at one time that they would update and make Pantomime available again but that went by the wayside.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 5,414
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    This has been one of my gripes about the posing system in DS. I get easier posing using the Cookie Flexrig in Blender. I'm no master animator or anything, but I've managed to put a few animations together in Blender. I have no idea how I could ever accomplish the same thing in DAZ Studio with it's current character posing system, at least as far as I understand it.

    https://vimeo.com/user19091117

    Try making this walk cycle in DAZ Studio...

    https://vimeo.com/69081996

    Looks great. Is that Sam in the walk cycle?

    Thanks! That is the Cookie Flexrig. In a way, the CF in Blender is like Genesis in DS. You can dial in character variations on the base figure to get a wide number of shapes, sizes, and colors.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAY3JbI4jBs

    That Animation Toolkit looks like a great tool.

    How long did it take to make the animations for the Tai Chi videoes?


    I exported an obj of Toon Boy Sam to Blender and scaled my Flexrig character to his proportions. There are limits, of course. I couldn't make the face like Sam (theoretically possible but more difficult), and the clothing variants are limited.

    Wouldn't it be great to take my scenes fully functional from DS into Blender? No, mcjTeleblender is not good enough for me. I spent way, way too much time fixing materials to my liking for it to work in any kind of fast workflow. Better yet, fix the posing tools in DS! I happen to like 3Delight more and more as I get used to it.

    Yes, fixing old bugs should definitely have higher priority than adding new features.

  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    @ Taozen-

    Animation, even in a program that makes it easier to do, takes a long time. I spent many hours on the Tai Chi animation (and still more to do when I get around to finishing it) using the pose to pose method. I made the extreme poses and then worked out the in-betweens starting from the torso and working outwards. The legs are IK, and the arms are FK. I was using a video reference from YouTube, but that doesn't help with depth in a scene. Once the overall motions were blocked out in the dopesheet, I used the graph editor to clean up the curves which is important to add more fluid, natural motion.

    The Cookie Flexrig is a free download for anyone. Just sign up at Blend Swap, which is a web site for free content made for Blender. (Much of Blend Swap is crap, but there are some really nice things too.) The Blender Animation Toolkit is a video course available from Blender.org and CG Cookie. I recommend it for anyone who wants to know how to make animations in Blender. I like Blender, but if Carrara can do the same high quality animation using Genesis figures, I would buy it and learn how to use it. I guess I don't see DAZ Studio being improved much beyond being a content display tool. And that's fine since it is free, after all.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 556
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    the pins do not work, as soon as you manipulate (rotating the hip)

    Hardly surprising, in the default pose, since any manipulation of the hip around x, and most manipulation around y and z, is going to pull the feet up. Moving the hip to give a bit of flexion before rotating, however, works better - though it might well be preferable to have the rotation blocked rather than the pins give way.

    yeah your right about this, it's not the pinning that have a problem....

    it's the IK/FK setup that's not working (specially when rotate/manipulate the hip)

    if this all finally would work, we can use studio for starting character animation.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 556
    edited December 1969

    How is the posing system in Carrara? Is it better than DS or does Genesis work the same no matter what?

    i found the same problems in carrara, found it not great.
    but, who am i so.
    run a demo if you have a chance,
    version 6, 7, 8 all make no difference at the pose tools.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 556
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    This has been one of my gripes about the posing system in DS. I get easier posing using the Cookie Flexrig in Blender. I'm no master animator or anything, but I've managed to put a few animations together in Blender. I have no idea how I could ever accomplish the same thing in DAZ Studio with it's current character posing system, at least as far as I understand it.

    https://vimeo.com/user19091117

    Try making this walk cycle in DAZ Studio...

    https://vimeo.com/69081996

    Looks great. Is that Sam in the walk cycle?

    Thanks! That is the Cookie Flexrig. In a way, the CF in Blender is like Genesis in DS. You can dial in character variations on the base figure to get a wide number of shapes, sizes, and colors.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAY3JbI4jBs

    I exported an obj of Toon Boy Sam to Blender and scaled my Flexrig character to his proportions. There are limits, of course. I couldn't make the face like Sam (theoretically possible but more difficult), and the clothing variants are limited.

    Wouldn't it be great to take my scenes fully functional from DS into Blender? No, mcjTeleblender is not good enough for me. I spent way, way too much time fixing materials to my liking for it to work in any kind of fast workflow. Better yet, fix the posing tools in DS! I happen to like 3Delight more and more as I get used to it.

    yeah if daz have such quick/rigging pose tools like Blender have today, then it would be a more useful tool for many character designers.
    there is not even a tweak for fast pose expressions, if we have something like powerpose for expressions.

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 556
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    DS had a better posing tool at one time. It was called Pantomime. DAZ chose to add the rather scaled back and limited (when compared to Pantomime) Puppeteer to DS2. There were promises form DAZ at one time that they would update and make Pantomime available again but that went by the wayside.

    that was a great tool! the good old daz days at version 1.8 and 2.0

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,646
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    icprncss said:
    DS had a better posing tool at one time. It was called Pantomime. DAZ chose to add the rather scaled back and limited (when compared to Pantomime) Puppeteer to DS2. There were promises form DAZ at one time that they would update and make Pantomime available again but that went by the wayside.

    that was a great tool! the good old daz days at version 1.8 and 2.0

    It was. I never did understand why DAZ never followed up on it. Granted, they would have had to do a buy out because it always seemed that the vendor had trouble keeping up with the sdk changes back in those days but it I still think it would have been worth it.

    I keeep DS1.8 , the last stable release of DS2 and the last stable release of DS3A on my system just to have access to the plugins that won't work on newer versions.

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,203
    edited November 2013

    its a pity theres no Trial for Carrara at the Moment
    i would like to try that
    but 170$ and i dont know if it works?

    Post edited by Ruphuss on
  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    I tried the demo to Carrara 8 that is available on CNet (I think). I couldn't figure out how to get DAZ content going in it, so I gave up. I understand that v8.5 has improved in this area, but apparently I can't try before I buy.

    I tried to locate the FK/IK switching in DS. When I click a figure or a part of the figure and press CTRL-K, nothing happens. For a program that bills itself as being 'artist friendly,' I would beg to differ. How about an FK/IK switch that appears in the parameters or posing tabs when a hand or foot is selected?

    While we're dreaming, I took a couple of screen shots of Blender in posing and animation. Wouldn't it be nice if DAZ created an add-on (if done right, I'd pay for it) that shows shape controls for driving bones and facial shape keys? Want to raise an eyebrow? Click on the little shape and drag. Watch the eyebrow raise. No need to constantly navigate the list of sliders in the posing tab. Notice the FK/IK sliders on this rig made for Blender? I'm sure similar things exist in Maya, Max, etc. We've got an amazing tool for creating digital art and all this awesome content for it, and yet it's still like a car that can only make left turns.

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  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 556
    edited December 1969

    I tried the demo to Carrara 8 that is available on CNet (I think). I couldn't figure out how to get DAZ content going in it, so I gave up. I understand that v8.5 has improved in this area, but apparently I can't try before I buy.

    I tried to locate the FK/IK switching in DS. When I click a figure or a part of the figure and press CTRL-K, nothing happens. For a program that bills itself as being 'artist friendly,' I would beg to differ. How about an FK/IK switch that appears in the parameters or posing tabs when a hand or foot is selected?

    While we're dreaming, I took a couple of screen shots of Blender in posing and animation. Wouldn't it be nice if DAZ created an add-on (if done right, I'd pay for it) that shows shape controls for driving bones and facial shape keys? Want to raise an eyebrow? Click on the little shape and drag. Watch the eyebrow raise. No need to constantly navigate the list of sliders in the posing tab. Notice the FK/IK sliders on this rig made for Blender? I'm sure similar things exist in Maya, Max, etc. We've got an amazing tool for creating digital art and all this awesome content for it, and yet it's still like a car that can only make left turns.

    That's exactly what we all want to have in dazstudio!

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