Polygon Modeling, Post your creations: A New Beginning

GarethGareth Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

A place to post your Carrara (and Hexagon) images of your models and to discuss about modeling in general.

Things that would be great to see in your posts (but not necessary):

1- WIP it to me!: A screenshot/grab or a draft render of your work in progress model.
2- Wooo... dat polygon: A wireframe image of your model, (please use a screenshot/grab app and not Carrara's wireframe draft render)
3- I'm a modeling ninja baby!: Tell everybody what modeling technique you used to create your model, (box modeling, edge modeling, displacement painting, etc).

Let's get modeling! :)

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Comments

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    This is the model i'm working on right now, i'm using box modeling for this one.

    Also here are the stages of the model.

    Box_Modeling.JPG
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    Head_WIP.jpg
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  • VarselVarsel Posts: 515
    edited December 1969

    Ok. I'll bite on...

    Here is one that I started on in the previous Carrara challenge.

    This is edge and pointmodeling.
    I put the DAZ (or old Zygote Cow) in the assembly room. Then I gave her a colour that stands out from the background.
    A new vertex model, with just a single plane.
    I then placed this plane (from the front view) so the cows head would be just behind it.
    Then with modeling in the assembly room I started tracing out the outline of the head. Adding lines and points as I progressed.
    I was also all the time aware of the edgeflow so I could extrude and shape afterwards.
    I then created the rim with a cylinder with an empty center. And then welded and connected the head and rim together.

    The text was created with the text tool, I then converted to a vertex object. What I did discover is that the fidelity value can be critical when doing this.
    A lower value ( I used 50 %) gives fewer polygons, and will be easier to fix afterwards. The conversion from text object to vertex object isn't perfect, and it will need adjustment afterwards.

    A copy of the part of the rim that should have the text was put in the back (shown as red) and then it was edge and point modeling again, so I could copy/paste the text into the Cow medal and adjust size and placement and weld together.

    The laurel wrath was also a edge and point modeling exercise, but here I used a picture on the backplane in the vertex modeler.

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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    What an excellent thread - what an excellent start!
    Gareth and Varsel, thanks for sharing!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited September 2013

    Barely touching on anything specific as far as actual modeling techniques, my Carrara 8.5 - First Look 2 video shows a quick example of modeling clothing over a base figure in the Assembly Room. I know that, sometimes, it can be easier to get started once you've seen an example of somebody doing it.

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    This is a modified model of the girl i made for the paradise lost and found challenge, I used box modeling for this one as well.

    Red_WIP_CarW.JPG
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    Red_WIP_Car.jpg
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  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Another modified model from the paradise lost and found challenge, this one was made with both box and edge modeling.

    Wolf_CarW.JPG
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    Wolf_Car.jpg
    600 x 800 - 69K
  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Varsel said:
    Ok. I'll bite on...

    Here is one that I started on in the previous Carrara challenge.

    This is edge and pointmodeling.
    I put the DAZ (or old Zygote Cow) in the assembly room. Then I gave her a colour that stands out from the background.
    A new vertex model, with just a single plane.
    I then placed this plane (from the front view) so the cows head would be just behind it.
    Then with modeling in the assembly room I started tracing out the outline of the head. Adding lines and points as I progressed.
    I was also all the time aware of the edgeflow so I could extrude and shape afterwards.
    I then created the rim with a cylinder with an empty center. And then welded and connected the head and rim together.

    The text was created with the text tool, I then converted to a vertex object. What I did discover is that the fidelity value can be critical when doing this.
    A lower value ( I used 50 %) gives fewer polygons, and will be easier to fix afterwards. The conversion from text object to vertex object isn't perfect, and it will need adjustment afterwards.

    A copy of the part of the rim that should have the text was put in the back (shown as red) and then it was edge and point modeling again, so I could copy/paste the text into the Cow medal and adjust size and placement and weld together.

    The laurel wrath was also a edge and point modeling exercise, but here I used a picture on the backplane in the vertex modeler.



    Really nice modeling Varsel, the render looks very realistic.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 8,783
    edited December 1969

    I give you guys huge amounts of credit! I've sporadically tried different vertex modeling techniques including box modeling and have had the desire to tear my hair out! Most of my issue is getting frustrated and not practicing the technique, but some of it is not wrapping my head around the concept- Which surprises me somewhat as I do okay sculpting in physical mediums. I just have a hard time translating what's in my mind's eye, to polys. For some reason, I have an easier time with the Spline and Meta Ball modeler

    I think it's about time to sit down again with some tutorials and just get busy again.

  • Rich GellesRich Gelles Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    This is an awesome thread to get started. I think that many folks dismiss the modeling capabilities in Carrara and this thread hopefully grows and grows and folks can learn and see what is really possible
    It would be great if some folks could start adding some how to's along the way so this becomes a learning tool for everyone. And you know what it might be nice to encourage folks to even pop in with some simple models too. The key here is modeling in Cararra or hexagon although IMHO since this is in a Carrara forum I personally really go crazy over things modeled straight up in Carrara !!
    The thread has inspired me to get busy as evilproducer said.

    rich

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited September 2013

    Well, as evilproducer said, coming from sculpting with your hands to CG 3d modeling, it's not a very natural transition. Sometimes it helps to have someone actually either show, or even tell you how. To help broaden this even faster, for anyone really wanting to get started, Mike Moir started threads to help inspire and teach Carrara users get into creating assets from directly within Carrara, aside from the occasional necessity of an image editor.

    Carrara Community Movie Project - Modeling start for assets - "Okay, guys and gals.
    Here is a watch model that we can start with , it doesn’t have to be this exact watch but something simple like this would be good. This is a learning process too so post your progress and ask questions if you need to. Happy modeling and we look forward to what you come up with. cheese
    Cheers. - mmoir"

    The above thread goes way beyond just modeling the watch - but before going on, I must mention that 3dage made a beautiful Carrara timepiece and shares the assets to make it! But Roygee hops in and shows us his talent in this, as do many others. A lot of great questions, answers and just plain discussion going on in there - with animation and modeling tips by WendyLovesCats as well. But also:
    Mike Moir provides some links to some really good modeling tutorials regarding modeling the human head. They are done in modelers other than Carrara - but the principle is the same, as Mike points out. Just down from that post, Roygee explains how to make the killer coin that he made. Like I said, a lot of useful "How to Model in Carrara" information in that thread.

    Pete Gregorio has a wonderful online video tutorial that demonstrates some
    wonderful features within Carrara's Vertex Modeler:
    Carrara 8 Gears Tutorial

    And there is a good amount of Modeling in Carrara video tutorials made by Cripeman! Follow this link and scroll down the Modeling section:
    Cripeman's Video Tutorials - This is my attempt to categorize the great video tutorials by our very own Cripeman! My ambition is to keep this catalog up-to-date always. Cripeman is a true Super Hero protecting civilization from Carrara quandaries.

    And, of course, you can get some great 'one on one' training from Advanced Carrara Techniques by Infinite Skills, taught by
    Phil Wilkes. This link takes you to some sample video clips as well as a table of content to the whole training course. I still feel very strongly about this set for anyone whom wants to become better at what they do in Carrara. Phil has a very solid way of teach in an enjoyable manner. In this set, he goes deeply into UV Mapping, Unwrapping, modeling, advanced shader techniques, HDRI creation... Lots and Lots of very useful 'know hows'. I say it like that because Phil is also very good at engraining this stuff into you. It's not just watching someone play around... he teaches you with very complete explanations so that you have the skills to move on to the next lesson. As an added bonus, the working files that he includes with the set gives you content who's value greatly exceeds the cost of the course - which more than pays for itself if the content wasn't included.
    Sorry for rambling on, but I just cannot say enough good things about this training.

    Same goes for Mike Moir's (mmoir in the store) excellent products. No I'm not trying to sell stuff! I'm just saying that his products are undeniably expertly created. From the textures files to the use of duplication and replication into a product of superb quality that is highly optimized to produce excellent renders and the techniques used take full advantage of what Carrara can do as a modeler!

    And once again, not enough great things can be said for the very useful (and fun!) video tutorials by our very own Cripeman.

    There are a lot more resources available on the topic - but too much will create clutter, and this should be an excellent start.

    Once you see some of this stuff in action, and begin to get the feel for how to extrude a box into more boxes that can eventually form a shape, which can be subdivided down to smoothen the shape, etc., you'll begin to realize that you truly can put your sculpt by hand experiences to your benefit, or oil painting, or just shapes observations - whatever it is that drives you to model. That drive will help to guide your hand on where your next extrusion will take place.

    The video that I linked to in my second post may look like I am very new to box modeling as I kind of fumble along. First off, this was partly due to modeling and babbling at the same time. But even more, I just wanted to really illustrate those beginning steps of creation. After that part, you can maneuver your model into nearly any level of detail you want. Some people can do it all right in the modeler - this case, Carrara. Others prefer to export the obj and bring that into ZBrush, MudBox, 3dCoat, Sculptris (free from ZBrush) types of 'sculpting' apps for a real sculpt in clay feel, and then bring it back, etc.
    The limits are few. In this field, there are multitudes of paths to find and take.

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 7,471
    edited December 1969

    Here is a low poly cow I made for a previous contest. The first image is the rhino from the mesh models tab of the content browser. The second model is the mesh after I converted it to a vertex model and morphed it to look more cow-like (in a low poly way). The thrid image is the rhino-cow after I painted some black spots on it with the 3D paint tool.

    Nothing like your little girl, but I think it was OK for a low-poly herd of cows in the distance.

    rhino_painted.jpg
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    rhino_low_poly_wireframe.JPG
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    rhino_spline_object.JPG
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    I like all of Gareth's models that I've seen, here and in the contest WIP thread. But being able to take an existing model and transforming it into something that you need - especially by manipulating the mesh - is excellent! That's the first steps I took towards modeling. Granted, I'm no pro modeler by any stretch...

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I give you guys huge amounts of credit! I've sporadically tried different vertex modeling techniques including box modeling and have had the desire to tear my hair out! Most of my issue is getting frustrated and not practicing the technique, but some of it is not wrapping my head around the concept- Which surprises me somewhat as I do okay sculpting in physical mediums. I just have a hard time translating what's in my mind's eye, to polys. For some reason, I have an easier time with the Spline and Meta Ball modeler

    I think it's about time to sit down again with some tutorials and just get busy again.

    You're absolutely right, getting down what's in your mind into polygons is difficult, but having references, basic sketches helps the creative process.
    3D modeling can be very VERY frustrating at first, but when you get into it you don't want to come back out. :)

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck, thank you for posting all those helpful links, some really nice modeling within the Carrara community. :)

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    diomede64 said:
    Here is a low poly cow I made for a previous contest. The first image is the rhino from the mesh models tab of the content browser. The second model is the mesh after I converted it to a vertex model and morphed it to look more cow-like (in a low poly way). The thrid image is the rhino-cow after I painted some black spots on it with the 3D paint tool.

    Nothing like your little girl, but I think it was OK for a low-poly herd of cows in the distance.


    Really nice work diomede64, that rhino was begging for some attention. :)

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    This is an awesome thread to get started. I think that many folks dismiss the modeling capabilities in Carrara and this thread hopefully grows and grows and folks can learn and see what is really possible
    It would be great if some folks could start adding some how to's along the way so this becomes a learning tool for everyone. And you know what it might be nice to encourage folks to even pop in with some simple models too. The key here is modeling in Cararra or hexagon although IMHO since this is in a Carrara forum I personally really go crazy over things modeled straight up in Carrara !!
    The thread has inspired me to get busy as evilproducer said.

    rich

    Thank you Rich :) and i agree, some Carrara users underestimate the modeling capabilities of Carrara, hopefully people can be pulled into modeling so they can create their own content to use in their scenes.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Absolutely! That's why I wanted to share those links. It would be an utter shame for all of Mikes wonderful advice (as well as others, too) go to waste in the archives. Your modeling skills are excellent, Gareth - as is your style. I love seeing people make models in Carrara. Personally, I feel as natural in Carrara as I have in any other modeler - not like I've tried a lot of them. But after using Max and Maya just before buying Carrara - I still feel right at home here. And now I have more experience in Carrara than I did in Max. It was fun though, being taught by a fellow whom makes his living modeling all day, every day! :)

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Here is the WIP and wireframe of a image i just finished, you can see the final render here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/20965/P525/#429702 :)

    Red_Riding_Hood_WIP_002.JPG
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    Red_riding_hood_Draft.jpg
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    okay, I'll ask my shaders question at that link... but here I have to point out to anyone else whom may be watching:
    Check out the uniformity in the mesh above. This Gareth fellow is highly skilled in 3d modeling and could do an amazing job in any software. But he chose Carrara.
    Gareth,
    Do you do a lot of modeling in Carrara? Forgive me if you've already answered this...

    Also, and again... forgive me please... my daughter has me stuck running from waiting room to waiting room in hospitals :(
    What brought you to Carrara and how would you compare it to your other modeling experiences?

  • GarethGareth Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the kind words Dartanbeck. It was Ray Dream Studios that brought me to Carrara, the interface is pretty much identical. Carrara is the only program i've used for modeling, i do have Hexagon which is an incredible modeling tool, but Hex has never been stable on my PC, I have tried blender but... the interface is really confusing, so i can't really compare them to Carrara... but i do think that Carrara is lacking in modeling tools more than anything else, so it would be great to see more tools from Hexagon in Carrara.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    I enjoy modeling in Carrara too. It just feels good. Now with the ability to model in the assembly room I 'm actually going to start venturing into areas I've never gone before - conforming clothes and hair and...

    I'd like to see some of those Hex tools to. But like other things with Carrara, until the time comes - at least it offers ways to work around what other apps might have. It's amazing what can be done. If only I knew more about writing formulas! lol

    Thanks for your input, Sir. Consider myself a fan of your charming style with those beloved characters! Well done! And the scenery too!

  • edited December 1969

    Gareth, that's two very cute models, and the topology is super clean!

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,830
    edited December 1969

    Hello,
    This heading appear very interesting to me !
    Could somebody explain the various types of modelings: “Box modeling”, “Edge modeling”, “Displacement painting” etc…?
    Thank you .

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,329
    edited September 2013

    So I've been plodding along, following video simple tutorials and going through the Carrara 7 pro manual item by item trying to figure out the vertex modeling room, and I think I'm making real progress, as I now know what most of the controls are for and do, even modeled a few very clumsy/clunky/ugly objects along the way (created an extremely ugly wineglass, coffee mug, table glass, etc) but now I just got to the Spline Modeling section and pulled it up to look/experiment and my brain exploded, so different...

    I'm amazed by all the buttons/gizmos/tools involved in just the vertex modeling room. I don't know what I don't know (of course) but I'm shocked that Carrara is perceived as limited when it seems to have so many many many options (so many I'm having difficulty remembering all the ones I already learned/studied; I keep going through menu items and seeing if I can identify each one I run across correctly, what it does and what it's for, making progress...)

    My first abortive attempt at modeling was several years ago with Hexagon, trying to model a very simple window object (that I could then use with Architools). I spent literally 2 days straight trying to make progress, even though I was carefully following a video tutorial someone made, but the Hex tools functioned randomly, didn't respond, responded differently than what I saw in the tutorial, and on top of that Hex crashed/froze up/locked up/shut down every 5 minutes. I did finally finish that damn window, but Jeebus I decided that if Hex was the *easy* modeler, then maybe modelling just wasn't my thing.

    But my experience in Carrara is just the opposite. I've loaded and altered and created tons of vertex objects while exploring, and no hesitations, slowdowns, no crashes of any kind, seems rock stable in every way, plus *almost* everything works as it should. So far I am liking Carrara for modeling! :) (not that I'm any good at yet, but at least it does what I want it to do so far)

    Post edited by Jonstark on
  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,329
    edited September 2013

    Hello,
    This heading appear very interesting to me !
    Could somebody explain the various types of modelings: “Box modeling”, “Edge modeling”, “Displacement painting” etc…?
    Thank you .

    Sorry I can't help with the first two, but I'm guessing their just loose terms that experienced modelers use when describing the way they are approaching modeling certain things. Displacement painting you can find a full definition for in the Carrara 7 manual (just use the find feature to skip down to that section). I'm far from an expert, but having read through it, it seems you can model a shape and instead of actually changing the geometry of your object you can save it as a displacement map instead, and the displacement map can then be applied to your object during rendering to give similar results as if you actually changed the geometry.

    Post edited by Jonstark on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Hello,
    This heading appear very interesting to me !
    Could somebody explain the various types of modelings: “Box modeling”, “Edge modeling”, “Displacement painting” etc…?
    Thank you .

    There are many different methods we can use in and out of Carrara to create 3d models from scratch. The first type of modeling you've mentioned is one of the very popular ways: Box Modeling. There is also Spline modeling and, in Carrara and some others, Metaball or blob modeling.

    Box modeling is where you begin with a single cube of six faces. Top, bottom, and then front, back, right, and left. Each of these faces are called polygons. Using a method that we call "Extrusion", we endeavor to use those faces for the four points that they contain, and extrude them a distance to create more polygons, depending upon how many faces we had selected prior to extrusion, and again, whether we extruded with the adjacent polygons linked or unlinked. Much of this portion is best left for further study. If you ever want to get into modeling, there are many resources available for study on the subject - who knows - Further conversation in this thread may even evolve into another. I have a brief overview of how simple box modeling can be in Carrara 8.5 - First Look 2 video. In this, I am overly simplistic with the model to help show the basic nature of extrusion - and how fun it can be within Carrara. If you watch that and wish to take that same principle further, just know that we still need to delete the faces for the neck, arms and waist openings. Continue to subdivide using the smoothing feature, as shown, to get more and more detail. In the same manner, you may select a single polygon (face = polygon) and extrude a shirt pocket, or a patch or a badge... some people will model these details in, others will use texture mapping. Once your model is done, it is most common to UV map it. The UV Map is beyond my typing skill to explain right here and now. But essentially is our way of telling the model where each of it's polygons will reside on a flat picture that we call a texture map. It truly is that simple, but the more complex the shape, the less simple it can be to allocate how to place, or "map" those polygons. To help with this, we can save various sections of the model, which is also called a "mesh", into individual shading domains. To do this in Carrara is incredible simple. Just select a number of faces - preferably in a manner that makes sense - but, hey... it's your model, and experimentation can be fun! With those faces selected, open the 'Global' tab on the right and select the 'new' button. "Do you want the new ~snip~selected?" - "Yes". Now give it a name.

    As I've mentioned, some people will model details onto the mesh. Others may simply use textures to show that extra features exist. Bump Maps are the same as texture maps except that they use levels of brightness and darkness to determine height and depression.

    Others might which to use a method called Displacement Mapping.

    Displacement Mapping allows you to paint details onto the mesh using a similar idea to bump maps, except that bump maps create an illusion of height and depression, where displacement uses the levels to actually 'displace' the mesh - very much as if you have modeled the details by adding polygons. In fact, Displacement behaves as if there are added polygons.

    Spline modeling uses many different methods of allowing you to model by connecting dots with lines. These lines can bend and distort depending upon the placement of the points and how we direct the line's direction as it intersects - which makes the line a spline as opposed to a straight line. This is getting into the territory where I will temporarily take my leave - my fingers are tired.

    See you soon.

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,329
    edited December 1969

    Now this is probably new user error, but it seems to me that the Align tool doesn't seem to work. Nothing happens when I try it, and I am following the directions in the manual precisely.

    Also Quick Fillet also doesn't seem to do anything, though that's less of an issue as I don't think I would use it much, since Fillet can do so much more, might as well use Fillet.

    Additionally I see that Extract Along and Extract Around both seem to work, but I have no idea what the usefulness/purpose of those 2 would be. I'll keep watching/following tutorials and I guess in time it will come clear. Boolean operations also mystify me as to how they would be useful, though they sure are neato to play with :)

    I guess I will take a little break and let my brain cool down, then I'll try to look at the Spline modeler again, and hopefully this time it makes more sense.... Haven't even gotten to metaballs yet...

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited September 2013

    Jonstark said:
    Now this is probably new user error, but it seems to me that the Align tool doesn't seem to work. Nothing happens when I try it, and I am following the directions in the manual precisely.

    Also Quick Fillet also doesn't seem to do anything, though that's less of an issue as I don't think I would use it much, since Fillet can do so much more, might as well use Fillet.

    Additionally I see that Extract Along and Extract Around both seem to work, but I have no idea what the usefulness/purpose of those 2 would be. I'll keep watching/following tutorials and I guess in time it will come clear. Boolean operations also mystify me as to how they would be useful, though they sure are neato to play with :)

    I guess I will take a little break and let my brain cool down, then I'll try to look at the Spline modeler again, and hopefully this time it makes more sense.... Haven't even gotten to metaballs yet...

    Extract along and around are incredibly useful at times. For example, when you know that your shape should extend a long distance uniformly, yet you which to have a more valuable topology (more uniform size polygons instead of really elongated rectangles), you can go ahead and make your shape and create the in-between faces using a lop selection of edges and extract them along, and continue to do so until the shape is filled with more even sized and shaped faces. Extract around will uniformly increase the circumference of the selected edges.

    Boolean's are often frowned upon because of the mess they can leave behind. But if you need to remove, say, a spherical shaped cut from the corner of a cube, for example, they can be very handy. The end result could be the cube with the spherical cut-out, or the difference between them, or any of many other combinations. ;)

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Jonstark said:

    Sorry I can't help with the first two, but I'm guessing their just loose terms that experienced modelers use when describing the way they are approaching modeling certain things. Displacement painting you can find a full definition for in the Carrara 7 manual (just use the find feature to skip down to that section). I'm far from an expert, but having read through it, it seems you can model a shape and instead of actually changing the geometry of your object you can save it as a displacement map instead, and the displacement map can then be applied to your object during rendering to give similar results as if you actually changed the geometry.


    Phil Wilkes shows us how to model in many ways, including UV Mapping in Infinite Skills' Advanced Carrara Techniques, and he even shows us how to create an entire city from a single plane primitive using displacement! A series that vastly exceeds it's price in value - even if all you use is the working files as content!
    That would be a crime, though - as Phil is such an excellent instructor on this stuff.
  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,830
    edited September 2013

    Hi Jon and Dart,
    Thank you for your answers to both!
    I experienced since two or three years the various methods of modeling.
    Carrara is an extraordinary tool to model polygons.
    It's a pity that one does not have the soft selection for the zones of deformations !
    I start to control the manner of modifying the predefined parameters of the existing characters but I do not sometimes happen to create the new ones in parts which in do not have at the beginning, I am explained: if for example a character does not have a morph target for its abdomen, Carrara does not want to create some while clicking on +.
    I also tested with .obj, but nothing occurs.
    Which are the conditions to be able to manage to create a morph target (not a simple zone of deformation)?
    Another question, I control very well animated textures of displacement which I create in After Effect but I do not control UV mapping at all.
    How does one make to select part of an image and to apply it to a shader domain ?
    Textures of the characters are all on the same image and each part is applied to various zones.
    Do you have a good tutorial to advise me?
    After that, I will start to interest me in the splines modeling which seems to me rather complicated.
    I like much the results obtained with the animated metaballs, but it is very, very... difficult to handle them!
    I hope that you will understand my translation in English…
    Thanks a lot !

    Post edited by DUDU on
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