Shader Mixer- How to undock it, Other Questions

NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
edited July 2013 in New Users

Well, I'm lost.

I did an image in corel photo paint. I want to apply it to a surface. I've read several tutorials (wasted three hours) and am getting nowhere. Start at the beginning and answer these questions please-

1. I select the surface. Then in surfaces, do I put the image (lets call it Image) in specular strength, diffuse color, opacity strength, bump strength, displacement strength, and reflection strength? Do I set those all to 100%? (one tutorial did that.)

2.I go to shader mixer. Then what the heck do I do after I check file>import from scene>materials>accept. It seems to me the displacement bricks WERE connected to the tiler brick- but then again, I couldnt tell if they meant ALL of them- so I did the "show advanced" thing just to be sure the S and T were showing and connected, but who knows- how many are supposed to be connected??? After that, I was lost. Don't know what to do to get this saved- I thought I had, but still getting the "not recognized" thing.

Done dealing with this tonight (going on 5am) Just totally irritated. Help! (and thanks in advance.)

EDIT: and how do I get that DARNED (substitute in for a cuss word, yes I'm at that point) Shader Mixer to disappear? I didnt dock it but it parked itself magically and refuses to go poof. (translation: I docked it but am not taking responsibility)

Post edited by Novica on
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Comments

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 4,911
    edited December 1969

    What, precisely, did you want to do with the image?

    Adding it to:

    diffuse - will cause it to be visible on the surface of the object
    specular - will affect how and where 'bright spots' will be seen
    opacity - will cause some transparency (bear in mind this is done via greyscale, not colour)
    displacement - will cause the geometry to be displaced at render-time (again, this is done via greyscale values)
    bump - like displacement, but just using optical tricks to give the impression of texture
    reflection strength - will affect how reflective the surface is at a given point.

    As for getting shader mixer to disappear ... not looked at the for ages, but try clicking on the 'context menu' at top right corner.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    It's for the texture of a bikini, or a pillow, etc. In other words, things made out of fabric.

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 4,911
    edited December 1969

    In theory you'll only need to add the image to the diffuse map.
    As it happens, about a week ago I wrote this little tutorial: http://fav.me/d6axiy3

    You will probably also wish to play with some of the other settings to add to the overall realism, but using the same image map for that is probably not a great idea.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 46,267
    edited December 1969

    Window>Panes(Tabs)>uncheck Shader Mixer should remove it, or click the menu button on the pane or right-click the tab and select Close.

    But why are you wanting to use Shader Mixer? You don't need to to apply a texture.

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,891
    edited December 1969

    EDIT: and how do I get that DARNED (substitute in for a cuss word, yes I’m at that point) Shader Mixer to disappear? I didnt dock it but it parked itself magically and refuses to go poof. (translation: I docked it but am not taking responsibility)


    Use the little drop down menu at the top of the pane (any pane has this), that looks like four lines with a little triangle. Choose 'Close Pane' at the bottom of that menu, and that particular pane will go away. You can always get it back again form Window > Tabs.
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    When I just add the photo to diffuse, I get an error message

    ERROR: 3Delight Process exited abnormally: "C:/Program Files/DAZ 3D/DAZStudio4/bin/tdlmake.exe -mode periodic C:/daz3d/shader2.jpg C:/Users/Cathie/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4/temp/d107_shader2.tdl"
    cannot read JPEG file 'C:/daz3d/shader2.jpg' (error: unsupported format feature)
    tdlmake: cannot open input file 'C:/daz3d/shader2.jpg'
    tdlmake: error while making texture file

    So I assumed I had to go in and try and get this sucker to a dbf (I think that's right? Daz brick format?) So I went in and did the import materials in the shader mixer like zigraphix tutorial mentioned, then in s.mixer the file- save as shader, put it in my library shaders, also tried it in the shader presets, and it still renders with that error.

    Okay, I have GOT to get some sleep, but if you folks can figure out what I'm doing wrong- just fyi, it didn't work when I had it in ambient, specular, nada. Just the error messages that the jpg is in the wrong format.

  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 2,503
    edited December 1969

    Novica, I think they have somewhat missunderstood you. Guys what she is trying to do is to make a shader (I think that's what you trying to do right Novica? or have I missudnerstood everything perhaps?)

    As for using a shader you have made yourself, you shouldn't put it in diffuse or anything, you should use it as you use the shaders you buy in the store, like the Peacock ones. How to actually Create a shader (or shader preset.. whatever it's called *winks*) I am afraid I am at loss how to do, as the free tutorial in the store that I tried to follow, is apparently so outdated it just dont' work, even when following it to the point. I did try that one several times, followed each step exactly as it said, but things still didn't work.. so I kind of assume it's simple made for an earlier version of Daz studio *shrug*

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,239
    edited December 1969

    Novica My advice is to leave Shader Mixer well alone until ypu understand the Surafces Pane and how to set up materials. Does this link not help http://homepage.eircom.net/~neilvpose/ds-settings.htm

    .jpg is the correct format so I am unsure why or how the error is happening.

    As for this question

    1. I select the surface. Then in surfaces, do I put the image (lets call it Image) in specular strength, diffuse color, opacity strength, bump strength, displacement strength, and reflection strength? Do I set those all to 100%? (one tutorial did that.)

    Well if your image is a diffuse map then it goes in to the Diffuse channel, if it is a bump, displacement or spec map then well you get the idea. So again my advice is learn what these are and what they do. Shader Mixer is not for newcomers

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    I've used the diffuse, specular, ambient, etc- and had no problems with them- it's just that when trying to use a simple jpg for the diffuse channel for the bikini, I'm getting that error. As you might recall, I did a primitive (plane) and used a water photo (jpg) and had no problem, and changed the other surface settings with that one. Just can't get this to do anything, will try tweaking it some more tomorrow.

    But by no means do I know everything about the surfaces tab, lol- totally agree Szark! But heavens, trying to use a simple jpg should consistently work!

    And that was the same tutorial I read- out of date, etc.

    Now I'm going to sleep., REALLY.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:

    1. I select the surface. Then in surfaces, do I put the image (lets call it Image) in specular strength, diffuse color, opacity strength, bump strength, displacement strength, and reflection strength? Do I set those all to 100%? (one tutorial did that.)

    Well if your image is a diffuse map then it goes in to the Diffuse channel, if it is a bump, displacement or spec map then well you get the idea. So again my advice is learn what these are and what they do. Shader Mixer is not for newcomers

    I was doing what that tutorial said to do. It was for a simple square cube.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,239
    edited December 1969

    What I am more interested if this was me is why using a .jpg image should throw up this error.

    Has Corel got a .jpeg format (note the e in jpeg) I just have a hunch that is all. It may be way off. You could try .tiff format ands see if that stops the error.

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 4,911
    edited December 1969

    Oh, I hate graphics!!! If I had to guess (and it will be a guess) I would assume that the file has been saved with some option or feature setting that Daz Studio is not liking, though what the hell that could be is anyone's guess! Can other programs (such as MS Paint or GIMP) open the file without issue? If so, try re-saving it from one of those.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 46,267
    edited December 1969

    I don't know if TDL Make would object to something like a progressive jpg - what options did you use when saving the file?

  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 2,503
    edited December 1969

    Novica, is this the tutorial you followed? http://www.daz3d.com/shader-mixer-tutorial-i

    I gave it a try in.. april or early may I think, dont' remember the format it told to use though *refuses to even try this one again*

  • WilmapWilmap Posts: 2,818
    edited December 1969

    I have had that error in the past. I don't know why some jpgs won't work either.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    Carola O said:
    Novica, is this the tutorial you followed? http://www.daz3d.com/shader-mixer-tutorial-i

    I gave it a try in.. april or early may I think, dont' remember the format it told to use though *refuses to even try this one again*

    Yep, unfortunately.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    What I am more interested if this was me is why using a .jpg image should throw up this error.

    Has Corel got a .jpeg format (note the e in jpeg) I just have a hunch that is all. It may be way off. You could try .tiff format ands see if that stops the error.

    Well, here's your tiff. The image on the left (green) is what it should look like, the right is spot rendered.
    And the other image is just a jpg and shouldn't be doing black.

    shader4What.jpg
    888 x 971 - 65K
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    It's not a jpeg file, it's a jpg
    Back to my original question, the Shader mixer makes shaders, right? Doesn't the shaders change the surfaces, aka, they use images? So why can't I do that for the bikini? And if so, I gave you the steps I followed (not going to repeat, just read what I posted) so all I needed was how to SAVE the stupid thing so I can apply it- since my images are not being recognized. We can debate all day why this wont take this image, but it's the same darned way I save my water jpg and it worked fine. I need to move on and create whatever WORKS.


    cannot read JPEG file 'C:/daz3d/shader4.jpg' (error: unsupported format feature)
    tdlmake: cannot open input file 'C:/daz3d/shader4.jpg'
    tdlmake: error while making texture file

    Optimizing Images - 2/2
    Rendering image
    Rendering...
    3Delight message #3 (Severity 2): T2040: 'C:/Users/Cathie/AppData/Roaming/DAZ 3D/Studio4/temp/d80_shader4.tdl' not found (in shader 'dzplastic' on object '')

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 46,267
    edited December 1969

    With the surfaces you want to apply the shader to, click the Apply button in the bottom-right corner of Shader Mixer. The shader will be saved in a Shader or Materials preset once applied, or in the scene.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    Did that last night. It had the bra selected, said bra in shader mixer, I hit apply. (its in the bottom right corner) I know the FILE save thing is in the shader mixer, NOT the regular "FILE" up in the top left corner. Didn't save, wasn't in the file. Does it make a difference if I save it as a shader, or a shader preset, although I tried both?

    Headed to the barn. Back in a few hours. Will give this another go with screenshots, okay? Appreciate your help folks!
    Cathie

  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,206
    edited December 1969

    Last time I seen scrambled images like that was DS trying to load some bad .RSR thumbnails (Poser 4), and the time I tried to use a 32k TIF as an environment map.

    That error message is telling me that the JPG has been saved with a compression format TDLMake doesn't recognize, so you might want to check the JPG settings you used when you saved it.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    I was wondering if it makes a difference in the CMYK 32 bit (this one) or the RGB 24 bit.
    There is nothing- NOTHING- different about this image than the rest of them that work when put in Diffuse.
    There is no smoothing, no progressive, no optimize, resolution is 96 (not 72, but not ultra high) anti-aliased is checked (like the others)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 46,267
    edited July 2013

    CMYK vs RGB would be a pretty big difference, yes - you probably need to convert to RGB, though if 3Delight is meant to support native CMYK files it would be worth a bug report.

    There seems to be little information on a quick Google, but I did find this http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=597363#597363 which appears to confirm that CMYK may be an issue.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,239
    edited December 1969

    If you want Novica send me the texture map and I will run it through GIMP or Photoshop and send it back. I think PM's are limited to 2000sq res liie the forums so you will need to send me your email address via PM if the map is bigger than 2000 x 2000.

  • DollyGirlDollyGirl Posts: 2,143
    edited December 1969

    Novica said:
    Did that last night. It had the bra selected, said bra in shader mixer, I hit apply. (its in the bottom right corner) I know the FILE save thing is in the shader mixer, NOT the regular "FILE" up in the top left corner. Didn't save, wasn't in the file. Does it make a difference if I save it as a shader, or a shader preset, although I tried both?

    Headed to the barn. Back in a few hours. Will give this another go with screenshots, okay? Appreciate your help folks!
    Cathie

    If you want to make a shader that can be used by DAZ then you must have the finalized shader from Shader Mixer applied to a surface (ie the bikini bra) in the scene. With the object (bikini bra) and the surface with the new shader selected (Scene and Surface tab respectively) then go to File -> Save As -> Shader Preset, go to the directory you want to put the preset in. Type in a name. Hit save and then accept. You now have a shader that can be applied to any surface on any object. This is a *.duf file.
    When you use the save on the Shader Mixer file you are making a file that only Shader Mixer can use. This is a *.dbm. This is also called a Shader.

    There is a difference in the intent of the meaning of shader and shader preset. A shader is the set of equations, inputs, and variables used by 3Delight to calculate what the color and opacity will be for each pixel that has been assigned to that shader. When you change the inputs (ie the information on the surface tab) you have begun the process of creating a preset. The preset can be saved two ways. The first is just by saving the scene. The second is by saving it out in the duf format. The first way you only have access to the shader when the scene is open. The second way is accessible to any scene you are currently working on.

    So a preset reflects changes only to the user inputs (surface tab) and use of Shader Mixer is not necessary. If you need to get to the equations, change equations, add image options that are not currently available, allow tiling if it is not currently available etc, etc then you will need to open up Shader Mixer.

    Use the file save in shader mixer when your shader is still not to your liking and you want to play with it some more before using it in a scene or you are creating a brick you will be using to build custom shaders with or if you want to play around and create a number of presets. The next time you work on the shader all you will have to do is open the *.dbm file instead of going through the create through scene option.

    Hope this helps you a little bit Cathie.
    Lonnie

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited July 2013

    Lonnie- You helped immensely, not only me, but probably to quite a few people who were wondering the difference. All last night I was using Shader Mixer making neat bricks (yep, figured out some of it!)

    Uh oh though- I think I made a BUNCH of dbm's- I used the Shader Mixer File>Save and they weren't applied to the surface. No wonder they weren't showing up under presets in Content Library! (If I read that right? They'll only be in Shader Mixer? I just went in to Shader Mixer, and at least they are all THERE, thank goodness, lol) So darn it, I have to turn these all into dufs.

    Clarify for me- the duf's are shader presets, the dbm's are shaders, right?

    Here's one question: where the options exist to select granite, marble, checker- I'd like to be able to have more options there to tweak- like when you have checker and mess with the horizontal/vertical etc- so one question is- when you buy shaders, I assume those do not show up in Shader Mixer do they? (You know, like when you add a figure, they show up under Actor?) Or are we limited to just the options already in Shader Mixer?

    There's no way to put an image into Shader Mixer?

    UH OH- it IS an issue with it being RGB (which it ACCEPTED and rendered) vs CMYK!!!!!
    (Thanks for the offer Szark! But just figured out what it is.) Darn it! The 24 bit is lousy!

    EDIT: Below- I'm proud of myself. Have to figure out how to get the lines less jaggedity. But how about that for a newbie Szark? (poke, poke- comment along the lines of "...Shader Mixer is not for newbies") (Ya'll have to understand that Szark and I are friends, nothing malicious here. He meant it is not a simple thing to do, and I quite agree!)

    I got some results- BRING IT BABY!!!! (HUGE GRIN!)

    shadermixer.jpg
    944 x 1533 - 115K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    First two useful image programs that are good for fixing formats. Both have free versions but images made with free versions cannot be used for commercial purposes.

    IrfanView: http://www.irfanview.com/
    XnView: http://www.xnview.com/en/index.php

    Second, just what are you trying to do that you think you need the Shader Mixer? You can add color and patterns in the diffuse channel of any of the current shaders. If you want the material to have a woven look than add a greyscale strength map image to the bump or displacement channels. Example the first image is a strength map I made with PaintShop Pro. I use the new SSS shader from Age of Armour and added it to the Bump, Opacity and Specular channels and left the Diffuse channel imageless and white. Second image is resulting render.

    CottonWeave.jpg
    700 x 700 - 224K
    Weave_fine.jpg
    512 x 512 - 144K
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited July 2013

    jestmart- thanks!
    That is great to know- (and I'm linking this entire thread in my art studio because there is so much great info on Shader Mixer, etc) It's not just a bump/texture- or one of DAZ's shaders- I did a jpg image using Corel Photo Paint of a pattern and it wouldn't go in the Diffuse Channel. I'd done that before, so at least I DID know about that- but it wouldn't take it, at all. Rendered black and got the error messages I posted earlier. I will play around with what you just posted though and check out those links- appreciate you very much!
    Cathie

    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    Szark and Richard- fyi, the image was small, only 200 x 200, with a dpi of 96. So the size of the image wouldn't have caused an issue. Well, that brings up another question- what IS a good size for say, the bikini top, for a repeat pattern?

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,633
    edited December 1969

    And how do I get the Shader Mixer effect turned OFF in surfaces, say, if I want to take off the checkered surface map and use my own pathetic (lol) 24 bit image in Diffuse? I can't find a way to get those checkers gone! (and there's no Diffuse to even put IN an image and override.) Geez, I'm learning a lot these past two days- (thanks folks!)

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