Differences between Gen/Gen2 and Vic/Vic5

Notch3565Notch3565 Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Just putting out my thoughts. I feel like Genesis 2 and/or Victoria 6 should have had a page like Victoria 5. And instead of just descriptions given in the Genesis 2 sections of this page (http://www.daz3d.com/sales-promotions/#vehicle) there should have been more visual examples of the improvements/key advancements over the previous generations.

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Comments

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,489
    edited June 2013

    Notable differences are the following:

    V6 has more polygons in the face for expressions
    V6 has a lower jaw which can be manipulated independently without breaking her face
    V6 has articulation in individual toes
    V6 is also apparently tweaked for better bending, though I haven't personally noticed much difference there.
    V6 cannot use Genesis morphs
    V6 has support for only Victoria 5 maps by default.

    V6 has no 'Basic Child' or 'Basic Male' morphs thus will always be an adult female unless you use the 'Androgynous' morph which effectively makes her gender-neutral. The Androgynous morph is not supplied by default and must be purchased in the body morph pack. All of the other morphing benefits of the Genesis figure will function as expected though.

    Which one you decide to stick with will probably depend on your requirements. As of now, Victoria 5 remains the better supported and more dynamic character as there is a wealth of Genesis content which can be used with her and dozens of characters you can blend in to create unique figures of your own. Victoria 6 has only recently been released though, and will likely catch up in future with all the benefits and caveats that provides. Do note that the lack of a basic child morph means there is no way to age Victoria 6 at present, so if you're looking to create a younger teen, she currently has no support for this.

    I have both in my runtime, but I still use Victoria 5 more at the moment for the flexibility. I also find it slightly harder to work with V6's expressions since the dials on her work quite differently to the V5 ones, but I chalk that up to a learning curve not a problem with the figure itself.

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,212
    edited December 1969

    Incidentally, if Evolution Morphs for G1 and G2F Morphs have the same name, a pose preset of dialled-in shapes will actually apply to either figure.

    e.g. here's a G2F shape I dialled up... http://www.sharecg.com/v/69952/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/Ethnic-01-for-Genesis-2-Female

    but apply it to G1 and see what happens... and the same can be done in reverse from a saved G1 pose to G2F, albeit different meshes do mean different results, but no need to be thinking that it all has to be totally from scratch, :)

  • MKeyesMKeyes Posts: 455
    edited June 2013

    Another difference is CLOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    With the COMING COMPETITION............... V6 needs AUTO-FIT! This is not the time, to TEST loyalty. I have LOVED Daz3d since I found it. 2004 - and fully clothed V3 & M3 from here and other resources where could be found.

    Then V4... who is by the way, stunning now that she is fixed.

    Genesis - and all that comes with it, is nice. But I still have more clothing for FIXED V4 than Genesis. As it stands, I can use them both.

    I have Genesis 2 V6 now and fell completely IN LOVE WITH HER!!! BUT.................................... can't dress her. Found that out this morning when I rose all excited to create something using her for a bookcover idea with a client. NOT!!! Cannot dress her with what is already in my runtime.

    Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I WON'T buy clothing for V6 and EVENTUALLY dress her. But it's NOT in the cards right now. So, by me being FORCED to go with immediate needs - I have to put V6 away, and get back to work using V4 or V5... that's not good. It's too easy for her to be forgotten as the NEW COMPETITION springs forth... and V4 to possibly fill the bill just as easy. Because she does look good now due to 3rd party morph packages, which I have, the complete and others.Since I postwork anyway... I can easily continue on doing so and be happy, because V4 is beautiful and I have GENESIS - V5 - Steph5 and all the other morphs with...

    No auto-fit for V6 so that she can at the very least get into V5's clothing... is going to impact her future sales... because there is too much to settle for that is basically just as good. When it comes to hard times, the economy and doing without, it's something people revert to very easily... even in the face of an incredible work of art like V6...

    Competition isn't helping that either.

    Solution?:

    A REALLY good Auto-fit for V6
    Clothing
    Hair
    SHOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do that... she will be hard to beat. And THEN... go ahead and start building her wardrobe. Because if I'm happy, and other consumers are happy, can dress her, they don't mind what comes out eventually just for her, and will even purchase what they like. After all, due to Auto-fit... they're USING HER.... have become ADDICTED to her.... and now, wish to GROW her wardrobe... and because of AUTO-FIT - they can do so comfortably. Given that... she won't get put away..... and worst of all...............forgotten.

    Don't forget.... V4 looks good and is an all time favorite now.
    Genesis blew our minds, many fixes have come out to correct needs for it.

    Get your consumer HOOKED on V6... by being able to dress her and USE HER NOW!!! While the iron is hot!

    Post edited by MKeyes on
  • HeraHera Posts: 1,639
    edited December 1969

    Yes, at least an autofit for the gen 4 characters would be nice having. I've got so much for V4 and A4, some of which I tested yesterday and although some come out good other looked really awful.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 55,122
    edited December 1969

    Mercedesk, G2F does (or should) have AutoFit support for clothes for the original Genesis using just the free G2F Starter Essentials. If that's not working, check that the Content Management Service is running.

  • MKeyesMKeyes Posts: 455
    edited June 2013

    I definitely tried a few pieces of Genesis clothing and couldn't get any to work. I'll do some more.

    Added later:

    Aaaah, I see, the trick is to choose the supported fit of V4... that seemed to work!

    SMILE is coming back... excitement is rebuilding once more! Hee-hee!

    Post edited by MKeyes on
  • Fragg1960Fragg1960 Posts: 330
    edited December 1969

    To be completely transparent, I'm not rushing out to get G2 or V6 (lack of backward compatibility with textures, lack of included morphs, limited backward compatibility with clothing, etc--not impressed.) and for my use, G1 does everything I need and then some. However, for future reference is the only way to get the G2 figure via install of Studio V4.6 (I'm running 4.5 pro at the moment). If I update to 4.6 then what happens to my G1 since G2 will automatically load with the install (I imagine)? Does G2 work inside Studio 4.5 (could I get it without updating Studio)?

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    Fragg1960 said:
    To be completely transparent, I'm not rushing out to get G2 or V6 (lack of backward compatibility with textures, lack of included morphs, limited backward compatibility with clothing, etc--not impressed.) and for my use, G1 does everything I need and then some. However, for future reference is the only way to get the G2 figure via install of Studio V4.6 (I'm running 4.5 pro at the moment). If I update to 4.6 then what happens to my G1 since G2 will automatically load with the install (I imagine)? Does G2 work inside Studio 4.5 (could I get it without updating Studio)?

    1) G2F starter essentials is in your account -- the content is separate from the application and can be installed without upgrading to DS4.6.
    2) The figure will work in 4.5, but the material resets will not because they use the new surface sets feature.
    3) Even if you do upgrade to 4.6, you'll still have Genesis 1 and your startup scene will be the same. You don't even have to install G2F.
    4) For people who use Poser 9/10/PP2012/2014 and don't have DS at all, you get both Starter Essentials with the DSON Importer.

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 1,552
    edited December 1969

    I would have preferred to pay for a female specific improved Genesis that supported all the plug-ins I've already bought for Genesis then to have to re-buy everything - if it's offered - again.

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 875
    edited December 1969

    Mercedesk said:
    I definitely tried a few pieces of Genesis clothing and couldn't get any to work. I'll do some more.

    Added later:

    Aaaah, I see, the trick is to choose the supported fit of V4... that seemed to work!

    SMILE is coming back... excitement is rebuilding once more! Hee-hee!

    I've also found that playing with the item type in autofit can help. Several of the pants/shorts I've tried didn't work using the pants option but if I selected fullbody they seemed to work fine.

    I hadn't thought of trying V4 to fit genesis clothing, maybe I'll experiment with that a bit and see what happens.

    With the exception of shoes I've managed to get most items I've tried to autofit but I agree that it needs some work. Even stuff that looks got at first ends up needing little tweaks as you go through posing and positioning.

    Personally I don't see myself buying V6 anytime soon. I've got the base G2F along with the morphs and the V4 conversion kit and V6 as a model really doesn't appeal to me. If they come out with some decent characters for G2F I'll likely bite. If all of the G2 characters require V6 to use then I'll probably be passing for a long time. Same with clothing, if it's for the base G2F I'm much more likely to get it sooner rather than later. If it's specifically for V6 I'll pass.

  • riftwitchriftwitch Posts: 1,363
    edited December 1969

    Fragg1960 said:
    To be completely transparent, I'm not rushing out to get G2 or V6 (lack of backward compatibility with textures, lack of included morphs, limited backward compatibility with clothing, etc--not impressed.) and for my use, G1 does everything I need and then some. However, for future reference is the only way to get the G2 figure via install of Studio V4.6 (I'm running 4.5 pro at the moment). If I update to 4.6 then what happens to my G1 since G2 will automatically load with the install (I imagine)? Does G2 work inside Studio 4.5 (could I get it without updating Studio)?

    When I start up Studio, the original Genesis still loads in the scene. You can change that, but I don't have any compelling reason to do so at the moment. Upgrading to 4.6 shouldn't cause any problems.

  • riftwitchriftwitch Posts: 1,363
    edited December 1969

    One difference I noticed with Genesis 2 is the full body morphs in the Genesis 2 Female Body Morphs set. Unlike the ones that come standard with Genesis 1, they really seem tailored for the female form. I'm assuming that when the Genesis 2 Male is released, the equivalent set of body morphs will likewise be optimized for male figures. Below is a quick render comparing the Bodybuilder morph, on the BaseicFemale on Genesis (left), and on the Genesis 2 Female (right). I think the Genesis 2 morph works much better for a female bodybuilder than the original Genesis morph. The exact morphs used:

    Genesis:
    Basic Female 1
    Bodybuilder 1
    Bodybuilder Details 1

    Genesis 2 Female:

    Bodybuilder 1 (The slider for this morph automatically brings up the sliders on the Bodybuilder Details and Bodybuilder Size morphs. If you don't turn Bodybuilder up, you can adjust them separately. The Bodybuilder size morph seems to be equivalent to the Genesis Bodybuilder morph, in that it bulks up the muscles without the details.)

    Genesis_Genesis_2_Bodybuilder_Females.jpg
    1869 x 1244 - 300K
  • MKeyesMKeyes Posts: 455
    edited December 1969

    Strange... I'm find that SOME of V4's things from Daz3d might fight her. But few of Genesis clothing fits her... why is that?

  • old-dogold-dog Posts: 16
    edited December 1969

    Not being too obvious but having upgraded to 4.6 all I see is Genesis. I see this about G2F and wonder where it shows up? Must V6 be purchased to get G2F or is it built in or added on? Where? Not a separate product I can see and not clearly part of the 4.6 install.

    ???puzzled???

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,891
    edited December 1969

    Mercedesk said:
    Strange... I'm find that SOME of V4's things from Daz3d might fight her. But few of Genesis clothing fits her... why is that?

    All of my Genesis clothing fits Genesis 2. Make sure that you have Genesis 2 selected in the Scene pane, then double click on your Genesis clothing item to load it, you should get a pop up for Autofit with only two options, Unsupported or Genesis, select Genesis, and then the clothing type, and it fits perfectly.

    Which items are you having a problem with?

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,891
    edited June 2013

    old-dog said:
    Not being too obvious but having upgraded to 4.6 all I see is Genesis. I see this about G2F and wonder where it shows up? Must V6 be purchased to get G2F or is it built in or added on? Where? Not a separate product I can see and not clearly part of the 4.6 install.

    ???puzzled???

    Mike already answered this a few posts back on this page

    1) G2F starter essentials is in your account—the content is separate from the application and can be installed without upgrading to DS4.6.

    EDIT

    I see I am on a new page, so that should read Previous Page

    Post edited by JimmyC_2009 on
  • Mr Gneiss GuyMr Gneiss Guy Posts: 462
    edited June 2013

    riftwitch said:
    One difference I noticed with Genesis 2 is the full body morphs in the Genesis 2 Female Body Morphs set. Unlike the ones that come standard with Genesis 1, they really seem tailored for the female form. I'm assuming that when the Genesis 2 Male is released, the equivalent set of body morphs will likewise be optimized for male figures. Below is a quick render comparing the Bodybuilder morph, on the BaseicFemale on Genesis (left), and on the Genesis 2 Female (right). I think the Genesis 2 morph works much better for a female bodybuilder than the original Genesis morph. The exact morphs used:

    Genesis:
    Basic Female 1
    Bodybuilder 1
    Bodybuilder Details 1

    Genesis 2 Female:

    Bodybuilder 1 (The slider for this morph automatically brings up the sliders on the Bodybuilder Details and Bodybuilder Size morphs. If you don't turn Bodybuilder up, you can adjust them separately. The Bodybuilder size morph seems to be equivalent to the Genesis Bodybuilder morph, in that it bulks up the muscles without the details.)

    That looks a lot better, in my opinion. I bought the Pro Bundle, but I haven't had time to install it yet, I probably won't for a couple of weeks. I wasn't overly sure I needed Gen2/V6 and bought it with some reservations but this is a good example of why I did. Thanks!

    Post edited by Mr Gneiss Guy on
  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 798
    edited December 1969

    TimG said:
    I would have preferred to pay for a female specific improved Genesis that supported all the plug-ins I've already bought for Genesis then to have to re-buy everything - if it's offered - again.


    The above quote is almost exactly how I feel about the situation after having purchased and played around with V6.

    Yes, the departure from the single model that can be anything IS a disappointment. The Genesis2 Female IS however a moderate improvement over what I can do with V5. . Basically just an upgrade. Unfortunately I wont be doing much with V6 until/unless there is support for morphs that I consider absolutely essential.

    From reading through the forums over the last couple of days, I have been able to come to the conclusion - possibly flawed- that DAZ may have felt it necessary to move away from the "single model concept" in order to keep advancing the platform. IF this is the case then there SHOULD be backwards compatibility. Lots of people have spent years and countless $ building up their content library and to have the newest iteration of the Genesis figure not be usable with a large percentage of that content is a big blow to them.

    If there has to be a split to separate genders, that's not optimal. BUT, if it has to be, make sure that morphs and clothing from the previous versions will work. If you give me backwards compatibility in clothing ( just like genesis 1 has with the clone shapes) and support for the morphs I feel are essential, I will be much more willing to spend time and $ purchasing Genesis2 figures.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    Basic Female isn't same shape as G2F and older bodybuilder morph isn't same morph as new one, so there will be a noticeable difference. New bodybuilder morph is more prominent, - which seems to be a theme with G2F having also more drastic expressions, - but here are Genesis with transferred back G2F bodybuilder morphs and G2F with (unlocked from hidden and already existing) Genesis morph and with native Bodybuilder morphs. Same morph on same starting shape. Genesis does seems to have slightly less definition of knee, so I've added a bit of free RAMWolff's morph to boost details a bit.

    PowerofTwo.jpg
    1086 x 928 - 161K
  • MKeyesMKeyes Posts: 455
    edited December 1969

    Mercedesk said:
    Strange... I'm find that SOME of V4's things from Daz3d might fight her. But few of Genesis clothing fits her... why is that?

    All of my Genesis clothing fits Genesis 2. Make sure that you have Genesis 2 selected in the Scene pane, then double click on your Genesis clothing item to load it, you should get a pop up for Autofit with only two options, Unsupported or Genesis, select Genesis, and then the clothing type, and it fits perfectly.

    Which items are you having a problem with?

    Genesis clothing. It stunned me because I was sure they would fit. But no good. I'm back and forth between writing and playing with G2. I need to give it more focused attention - because going back and forth I'm missing something.

    I got a few of V4 items to fit her, but none of Genesis.... weird. And I was certainly using the autofit, so perhaps I'm not doing something right. I'll get back to it after I've met my writing quota.

    Cheers

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2013

    riftwitch said:
    One difference I noticed with Genesis 2 is the full body morphs in the Genesis 2 Female Body Morphs set. Unlike the ones that come standard with Genesis 1, they really seem tailored for the female form. I'm assuming that when the Genesis 2 Male is released, the equivalent set of body morphs will likewise be optimized for male figures.


    Thank you for sharing!

    BTW I haven't had any issues with Genesis 1 clothing on Genesis 2.

    And I transferred over all my essential morphs to Genesis 2, so not much loss there at this point. I won't have to reinvest in all the great shapes and characters I've been working with.


    Lots of people have spent years and countless $ building up their content library and to have the newest iteration of the Genesis figure not be usable with a large percentage of that content is a big blow to them.


    That was how I felt too. until i got my morphs over. I have lost my expressions and some UV set support, but I can get all my clothes and shapes on genesis 2. Only thing I bought was MallenLanes V4 to G2 product. So not a lot of money invested at all.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • riftwitchriftwitch Posts: 1,363
    edited December 1969

    old-dog said:
    Not being too obvious but having upgraded to 4.6 all I see is Genesis. I see this about G2F and wonder where it shows up? Must V6 be purchased to get G2F or is it built in or added on? Where? Not a separate product I can see and not clearly part of the 4.6 install.

    ???puzzled???

    The Genesis 2 figure is in your products in your account at DAZ. It should be one of the products listed. I just typed 'Genesis 2' in the search field on my download page.

  • HeraHera Posts: 1,639
    edited December 1969

    [I transferred over all my essential morphs to Genesis 2, so not much loss there at this point.
    How does one do that?
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 1,248
    edited December 1969

    Herakleia said:
    [I transferred over all my essential morphs to Genesis 2, so not much loss there at this point.
    How does one do that?

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/

    I wish I had more time to muck around :D
    I already spend way too much time fixing stuff, as a carrara user lol.

  • riftwitchriftwitch Posts: 1,363
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    Basic Female isn't same shape as G2F and older bodybuilder morph isn't same morph as new one, so there will be a noticeable difference. New bodybuilder morph is more prominent, - which seems to be a theme with G2F having also more drastic expressions, - but here are Genesis with transferred back G2F bodybuilder morphs and G2F with (unlocked from hidden and already existing) Genesis morph and with native Bodybuilder morphs. Same morph on same starting shape. Genesis does seems to have slightly less definition of knee, so I've added a bit of free RAMWolff's morph to boost details a bit.

    I prefer the new Bodybuilder morph over the old one; it seems more believable for females. One problem I had with original was the oversized thighs. I can compensate with other morphs, but it's nice to start out closer to what I have in mind.I think tonigbt I may have the time to try your morph transfer tips. It should be fun.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    Herakleia said:
    [I transferred over all my essential morphs to Genesis 2, so not much loss there at this point.
    How does one do that?

    My advise would be to do it when you have time not to rush, and when you have some time to read the options. After I tried the steps provided by Kattey and Ben I have come up with my own method (mix of theirs) that I like.

    There is a thread here
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/

    Ben's method is faster, and will dump all the morphs into a new genesis 2 figure that you can save as a new figure asset. However his method does not update the default genesis 2 figure. Which is good because all those morphs can be messy. But you can have all your mophs this way.

    Katteys method takes longer, but allows you to bring over exactly what you want one at a time.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    riftwitch said:
    I prefer the new Bodybuilder morph over the old one; it seems more believable for females. One problem I had with original was the oversized thighs. I can compensate with other morphs, but it's nice to start out closer to what I have in mind.I think tonight I may have the time to try your morph transfer tips. It should be fun.

    I'm growing some fondness for new morphs as well, and I _maybe_ keep them after testing is done to use on my Genesis original.
    What I was trying to say that when applied to same neutral shape those morphs look very-very close on both Genesis and G2F. To be sure how "feminine" they are, I'll need to compare them to G2M-specific version of same morphs (G2M Bodybuilder) on same neutral shape (Genesis) when/if it G2M would be released, but for now G2F morphs look quite unisex for me when I subtract default female shape. G2F morphs have nice sharpness to them, I agree, could be a good alternative to Genesis regular Bodybuilder morph.
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    riftwitch said:
    One difference I noticed with Genesis 2 is the full body morphs in the Genesis 2 Female Body Morphs set. Unlike the ones that come standard with Genesis 1, they really seem tailored for the female form. I'm assuming that when the Genesis 2 Male is released, the equivalent set of body morphs will likewise be optimized for male figures. Below is a quick render comparing the Bodybuilder morph, on the BaseicFemale on Genesis (left), and on the Genesis 2 Female (right). I think the Genesis 2 morph works much better for a female bodybuilder than the original Genesis morph. The exact morphs used:

    Genesis:
    Basic Female 1
    Bodybuilder 1
    Bodybuilder Details 1

    Genesis 2 Female:

    Bodybuilder 1 (The slider for this morph automatically brings up the sliders on the Bodybuilder Details and Bodybuilder Size morphs. If you don't turn Bodybuilder up, you can adjust them separately. The Bodybuilder size morph seems to be equivalent to the Genesis Bodybuilder morph, in that it bulks up the muscles without the details.)

    Thanks for this comparison! The oversized thighs were my biggest problem with making V4 muscular -- Genesis 1 was a thousand times better. but I see that G2F does a much better job. While I could do this with Genesis 1, I sometimes still had to thin out the thighs. The definition is also far better.

  • Fragg1960Fragg1960 Posts: 330
    edited December 1969


    1) G2F starter essentials is in your account -- the content is separate from the application and can be installed without upgrading to DS4.6.
    2) The figure will work in 4.5, but the material resets will not because they use the new surface sets feature.
    3) Even if you do upgrade to 4.6, you'll still have Genesis 1 and your startup scene will be the same. You don't even have to install G2F.
    4) For people who use Poser 9/10/PP2012/2014 and don't have DS at all, you get both Starter Essentials with the DSON Importer.

    Thanks for the crash course--got it.

  • cecilia.robinsoncecilia.robinson Posts: 2,208
    edited December 1969

    Mercedesk said:
    Another difference is CLOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (...) I have Genesis 2 V6 now and fell completely IN LOVE WITH HER!!! BUT.................................... can't dress her. Found that out this morning when I rose all excited to create something using her for a bookcover idea with a client. NOT!!! Cannot dress her with what is already in my runtime.

    Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I WON'T buy clothing for V6 and EVENTUALLY dress her. But it's NOT in the cards right now. So, by me being FORCED to go with immediate needs - I have to put V6 away, and get back to work using V4 or V5... that's not good. It's too easy for her to be forgotten as the NEW COMPETITION springs forth...

    That's a good point. I remember when I started learning DS in October 2012. I lacked everything - hairstyles, clothes, props... At the moment, there's a couple of freebies that suit my taste better than the purchasables. See yourself: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24537/.

    Yours sincerely,
    Cecilia Robinson

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