Carrara vs DAZ

digitalcraftdigitalcraft Posts: 57
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

Sorry for asking such silly questions.

I am using DAZ and happy with Genesis figure for my work. I also use other DAZ assets.

I want to know in quick points what are advantages Carrara offers over DAZ ? Just few quick points that may help understand Carrara better and decide if switching to Carrara is worthwhile. I do more of Toon works. I use PWTOON and Visual Shaders for my work.

Comments

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,254
    edited December 1969

    HI .

    Dynamic hair,. Surface replicators,. Replicators,. full 3D modelling, (Vertex, Spline, Meta-ball). Terrains,. Oceans, Plants system,. Physics simulation. 3D paint (paint directly onto your models),.. Displacement painting in the vertex modeller.
    Volumetric clouds,. Realistic sky with cloud planes,. Particle system, Key-frame animation, and NLA (non linear animation) full animation editing with multiple tweener types, Animated shaders,. Video compositing with backgrounds,. HDRI real scene lighting, Multipass rendering. and a thousand other things.

    There should be a comparison page for the different products,.. but there's also a Demo / Trial version of Carrara 8 pro, available on CNET
    (www.downloads.com)

    try before you decide.

    hope it helps ;)

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 8,700
    edited December 1969

    I don't know what Visual Shaders are. I assume it's a DAZ Studio plugin of some kind. Carrara has it's own very powerful shader system which can be enhanced with plugins if desired.


    I don't know why you are asking what Carrara can do. Maybe it would help if you explain what it is about DAZ Studio that's limiting you. I'm not trying to be cute, but Carrara is a complex (though pretty friendly) program. Think of it like this: DAZ Studio is more akin to Poser. Basically a virtual photo studio. It has some nice features, and it can be extended somewhat- usually through the addition of plugins.


    Carrara is more of a 3D suite. It has the ability to be a photo studio just as DAZ Studio and Poser, but where they end, Carrara continues. Carrara has a Spline Modeler, Vertex Modeler, Metaball Modeler, terrain generator, plant generator, realistic atmospheres, volumetric clouds, surface and non-surface replicators, fire primitive, fog primitive, particle generator, a host of deformers and modifiers, rigging, advanced animation tools, powerful procedural shading system, Poser content friendly (at this writing only Carrara 8.5 beta supports genesis), fast renderer, multiple light types and effects, IBL, physics (including Bullet) simulators, etc. etc.

  • digitalcraftdigitalcraft Posts: 57
    edited March 2013

    Thanks for this great info. I am not into modelling really. i want to focus more on story telling. So I need good set of ready made characters, costumes but good animation and FAST rendering capability. I focus more on Toon Shading and styling.

    In this context is there any interesting feature in Carrara ? Does it handle large scenes well? Does it render faster than DAZ ? Does it have good "facial and Speech animation" capability ? Can one import DAZ scene as it is into Carrara and improve upon it ?

    Thanks in advance.

    Post edited by digitalcraft on
  • 3drendero3drendero Posts: 965
    edited December 1969

    Here is a tutorial on making toons in Carrara, just an example of what Carrara does:
    http://carraracafe.com/toon-shading/

    Rough comparison, Daz Studio does about 5% of what Carrara does, here is a showcase for Carrara:
    http://carraracafe.com/carrara-showcase/

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for this great info. I am not into modelling really. i want to focus more on story telling. So I need good set of ready made characters, costumes but good animation and FAST rendering capability. I focus more on Toon Shading and styling.

    In this context is there any interesting feature in Carrara ? Does it handle large scenes well? Does it render faster than DAZ ? Does it have good "facial and Speech animation" capability ? Can one import DAZ scene as it is into Carrara and improve upon it ?

    Thanks in advance.

    The modeling capability of Carrara is not just for modelers. In fact, modelers often use something else for their actual model creation. I bought Carrara because I use only bought content, and I want to animate.

    Content -
    Sometimes content doesn't come with the morphs I was hoping for, and so I wish I could tweak them - if even just a little bit.
    Carrara makes this very easy - I can actually go further and make all-new morphs to help in my animations (I can crank the dials up and down along the timeline)

    Keyframe Animation -
    I often only purchase animation files and work with those, because keyframe animation can be such a burden.
    With the small extra purchase of the aniBlock Importer for Carrara, I can still enjoy using aniBlocks, and it can load BVH or Animated PZ2 (poser format) without purchasing anything. But now I have this Carrara sequencer that allows me to drag the keyframes around, delete the one's that don't work with what I want, and mix and match in various ways using Carrara's NLA features - which are far more robust than anything you can read about them. I have a rather lengthy article on the subject called aniMating in Carrara in the Carrara Information thread, if you ever feel like a session of it. That Info thread may have more articles of interest to you as well. Have a look around.

    Animations can take a long time to render -
    Even now that I've got a bit of experience, but even worse before, I'd finally finish my animation set up, and start the render, and have to go do something else (like sleep) until the render is complete - only to find that I have to fix something or even start all over. There must be an easier way!
    Carrara renders really quickly - even if you leave the default 8 raytrace passes left alone - much faster than D|S. But still, animations take time to render. By having a simple scene setup for testing animations, using lower render settings - or even draft mode, Carrara is very fast, indeed. It also allows for Batch rendering, where you can load more than one (as many as you like) file to render, or the same one over and over, using different setting, different camera, or whatever, and set that batch to render when you're ready to call it quits for a while. Now you're rendering several scenes while you sleep!

    You haven't mentioned a need for this, but Carrara is far more expansive as well. A medium scene for Carrara can be thought of as about the same size as a Poser or D|S scene size. But with Carrara, you can just keep adding and adding... it can handle enormous amounts of content without coughing or tiring out.

    If you watch Cripeman's short video demonstration on Global Illumination, you'll see how beautifully (and quickly) Carrara can render without a single light in the scene - yet full of shadows and highlights! Add one light for dramatic appeal and you're in!

    Here's an Index to Cripeman's Free online Video Tutorials. They're all nice and short, highly entertaining, and informative.

    Finally,
    I've been a Poser fan for a while. D|S seemed, at that time, a little more difficult to use and a bit less feature rich. D|S is now much better than it's ever been - in my opinion - but I don't use it so that opinion is short, but since I've purchased Carrara (I bought C7 Pro just before C8 was released, and have been using C8 Pro and 8.5 beta ever since) I've been happier than ever assembling my scenes and building my animations, creating custom wind morphs on hair and clothes, rendering scenes that would choke Poser on a fine day... I know that software can be a very personal choice, but I have a feeling that, if you try Carrara, you'll be as hooked as I am!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Oh, and Cripeman also has some nice presentations using the "Toon Generations" as well. Not just the one with that as a title, but the Motion Path video and a few others use it. Just an FYI ;)

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 8,700
    edited December 1969

    Carrara also has a built in 'toon scene effect and maybe some toon shader and rendering options. There are also plugins that work as well.


    Here's a still shot from an animation I did using Carrara's built in toon effect using DAZ's Girl 4. Going back to what Dart said about using modeling tools to fix problems or create morphs, I used a clothing outfit that had no G4 morphs, and used the vertex modeler to make it fit. I could even animate without poke through.

    K_B_looping_twirl_copy.jpg
    720 x 480 - 68K
  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited March 2013

    For doing toon renders with Carrara you have a few options.

    1.) You can use YATOON which is a free plugin.

    2.) Age of Armor did some free Toon shaders for Carrara that you can use.

    3.) Toon Pro! which is a plugin you can buy.

    http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/plugin.php?ProductId=15

    See also the other DCG plugins.

    Parchment works great in conjunction with Toon Pro.

    The two attached images were done using YATOON & ToonPro and were some of the 1st ones I did using those plugins.

    I used only Toon Pro for the Bradley.

    You can get a good blueprint looking render just using Carrara. Crpreman has a tutorial showing how to do that.

    A few threads that deal with doing Catoon renders with Carrara also exist that you ca search the forum for.

    M2A2_Bradley_Toon_Test_1.png
    1200 x 900 - 516K
    Cell_Armor_Portrait.png
    1640 x 1230 - 406K
    Post edited by Jay_NOLA on
  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    The company name is DAZ. DAZ owns Carrara, Studio, Hexagon, and Bryce. Most people just assume when you say DAZ you mean Studio.

    "1.) You can use YATOON which is a free plugin." Jay_NOLA

    Which I highly recommend.

  • digitalcraftdigitalcraft Posts: 57
    edited December 1969

    Thank you guys for your kind help. Just one or two more enquiries.

    1) How does Carrara performs regarding Lip Synching in comparison to DAZ Studio ?

    2) Can we bring in the whole DAZ Studio scne into Carrara and modify or we have to bring in individual DAZ Studio Characters ?

  • bighbigh Posts: 7,437
    edited March 2013

    Thank you guys for your kind help. Just one or two more enquiries.

    1) How does Carrara performs regarding Lip Synching in comparison to DAZ Studio ?

    2) Can we bring in the whole DAZ Studio scne into Carrara and modify or we have to bring in individual DAZ Studio Characters ?

    1 and 2 are - you can do it in DS and yes import to Carrara using DUF .

    edit -
    to add to 1
    you are better off doing lip synching in DS right now .

    Post edited by bigh on
  • bighbigh Posts: 7,437
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    Thank you guys for your kind help. Just one or two more enquiries.

    1) How does Carrara performs regarding Lip Synching in comparison to DAZ Studio ?

    2) Can we bring in the whole DAZ Studio scne into Carrara and modify or we have to bring in individual DAZ Studio Characters ?

    1 and 2 are - you can do it in DS and yes import to Carrara using DUF .

    edit -
    to add to 1
    you are better off doing lip synching in DS right now .

    DS to Carrara test using DUF - hope it help you

    http://youtu.be/SUEOHhuF8XQ

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,254
    edited December 1969

    1) How does Carrara performs regarding Lip Synching in comparison to DAZ Studio ?

    Carrara has a plugin called "Mimic pro for Carrara". which is based on Mimic pro, which Daz Studio uses,. so essentially they both do the same lipsync animation , using almost the same software.

    Mimic for Carrara also allows you to add lipsync to your own figures created in carrara.

    or,. you can lipsync in Daz Studio,. or Mimic Pro (stand alone application) then import that facial animation into carrara.

    2) Can we bring in the whole DAZ Studio scene into Carrara and modify or we have to bring in individual DAZ Studio Characters ?

    Daz Studio,. like any other program,. has some features and functions which will only work in hat program,. so,. transferring an entire scene,. depends on what's in the scene.

    Carrara loads the same figures as Daz Studio does,. directly from the content browser,.. so the question would be,.. why use Daz Studio, and then try to export / import that daz format scene,. into Carrara,. when Carrara can load the figures in the same way daz Studio does.

    It's simpler, and better, to build your scene in the program you intend to use. rather than import / export from other software.

    The same applies in reverse to carrara,. it makes little sense to build a scene in carrara, ...then try to export that to Daz Studio.
    there are many features which will not transfer, ..because they don't exist in the other software.

    The main reason to try to work this way, is familiarity. generally,.. people stick to what they know. ...So,.. jumping into your "comfort" software to work, is the simple answer,. (it's what you're used to)
    ..but it won't teach you anything about the new software you've bought.

    It may seem harsh,. but,. Using Carrara is the best way to learn how it works.

    Hope that makes sense :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    The more you play around in Carrara, however, (like, the first day or two) The more you'll begin to notice that you should really just open Carrara and begin there - rather than opening D|S at all. You may be different, as everybody has there own methods, tastes and needs.
    With Mimic Pro for Carrara, you get to use Carrara's powerful NLA (non-linear animation) features to assist in adding your own custom characteristics to your figures on an individual basis - which is enormously cool! It's all really nicely explained in the pdf that comes with Mimic Pro for Carrara. I'm not sure what features D|S has for that, so I can't compare, but I thought you should know.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    If you also own PD Pro Howler (any version #), you can make really great animated or static cartoon (or realistic) Backgrounds for use it your animations - which would delivered incredibly fast renders. Alternatively, you can also build a 3d scene in Carrara and use the spherical camera to create your own 360 degree backgrounds and then animate inside that for the same speed render benefits. In the first example mentioned, Howler is the only Dogwaffle that has animation benefits - just FYI. Carrara can render spherical backgrounds as either static or animated, cartoon or realistic. The built in Toon! render features are really cool for background use, BTW!

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Howler is the only Dogwaffle that has animation benefits

    i've just today downloaded the free version - for another purpose entirely. After reading the above, I tried it out and within 5 minutes and not having read any instructions made an animated painting.

    Don't know the full extent of what it can do, but the free version certainly has animation capabilities:)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Howler is the only Dogwaffle that has animation benefits

    i've just today downloaded the free version - for another purpose entirely. After reading the above, I tried it out and within 5 minutes and not having read any instructions made an animated painting.

    Don't know the full extent of what it can do, but the free version certainly has animation capabilities:)Great to know! I've created a set of playlists for some of their incredible video tutorials here, if you're interested.

  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Posts: 1,145
    edited December 1969

    A few quick thing to add.

    Only 8.5 Beta can import DUF.

    For animating you can get aniMate for Carrara so you can use your aniBlocks with it. (Do watch if you buy a bundle to get aniMate as it may contain aniBlocks you already have and it would have been better just to buy it separately.)

    Cripeman has these videos that you may find interesting:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51_xEoQYuSs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz96CFTL5x8

    The AoA Toon shaders I mentioned can be downloaded at:

    http://www.ageofarmour.com/3d/free/downloads/aoa_toon_shaders.0.0.0.1.zip

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for setting up the links, Dart - I am very interested and it is much appreciated:)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Thanks for setting up the links, Dart - I am very interested and it is much appreciated:)
    My Pleasure. I was just learning about Rotoscoping last night. Quite the powerful tool is Project Dogwaffle Pro - Howler! I think it will be the ultimate postwork solution to Carrara - as well as a great tool for making stuff for within Carrara as well.
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Had a bit of a play with the free version today while Sheba (She who must be obeyed) wasn't around!

    It is truly amazing what can be done in a very short time - the Pro must be absolutely fantastic.

    Something I haven't been able to figure out is the Alhpa channels. Seems to work differently to what I'm used to in Gimp.

    The free version only outputs in .tga and I can't get the white background to become invisible. I had the idea of making a backdrop of a meteorite shower. Putting the animated textures on a camera-facing plane, with "White is invisible" worked OK, but the backdrop in the scene doesn't give this option.

    problem is the manual is for the Pro version, so have to try and mentally filter out what is appropriate to the free version - still, ab really great application:)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Had a bit of a play with the free version today while Sheba (She who must be obeyed) wasn't around!

    It is truly amazing what can be done in a very short time - the Pro must be absolutely fantastic.

    Something I haven't been able to figure out is the Alhpa channels. Seems to work differently to what I'm used to in Gimp.

    The free version only outputs in .tga and I can't get the white background to become invisible. I had the idea of making a backdrop of a meteorite shower. Putting the animated textures on a camera-facing plane, with "White is invisible" worked OK, but the backdrop in the scene doesn't give this option.

    problem is the manual is for the Pro version, so have to try and mentally filter out what is appropriate to the free version - still, ab really great application:)

    Very different - very cool. I look forward to getting used to using it, myself. Targa is their native format - and there's a bazillion things that can be done with Alpha - and it does work entirely different from anything else where Alpha is concerned - same with layers - as they are not opaque. The videos are a huge help in wrapping the noggin around the concepts - and the power!

    I'd feel bad about the hijack... but OP hasn't seemed to return for some time now :smirk:

    Anyways - in D|S vs Carrara, Carrara is the clear winner - especially when accompanied by Dogwaffle!

    Pssst... Roygee, wanna see something cool? The Cool Creative Bundle is an incredibly sweet deal! That's how I got in. You can update to PD Pro 8.2 Howler from there for really cheap... otherwise, as the vids will demonstrate, 7.2 is amazing on it's own. Just a few weeks ago, that bundle included version 5 instead of 7.2
    Curvy looks amazingly fun! Only tried it for a few seconds so far - Oh what I would do if I could get a little time!
    Genetica looks great, too. I actually wanted the bundle mainly for the AnyFX Plugins for Dogwaffle. The rest is a bonus!

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Hey, I don't know ...I've seen many of those sorts of offers to sell some-one else's products cheap and have always been leary of them. When something looks to be too good to be true, it probably is. I just wonder how legit this offer is?

    Once came across something very similar to this, where they were selling around $1500 worth of Daz products at $100. I reported this to Daz and they confirmed it was pirated - the next day the site was taken down. So, I'm wondering whether the owners of all these products are aware that their stuff is being sold dirt cheap:)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Yes they are. Upon receipt, you get a zip with the folders and codes, with links to the actual companies. It's not at all a PITA, though... their all very quick to respond - if response is needed. Philip Staiger set me up with it - because the sales link was in french or something. He contacted them and fixed it for me - after several discussions with him, I was convinced it was legit. The Curvy3d you get is version 1.6, but is really fun. I haven't checked to see what the cost is to go to version 2 yet - but I'll likely do it. I also had an e-mail conversation with the owner of Texture Anarchy, the PS filters plugin.

    Crazy though. By the time I upgraded PD Pro Howler 7.2 to version 8.2, taking full advantage of GPU support, the price was the same as if I bought PD Pro Howler 8.2 all by itself - well, one American dollar more.

    I bet the free version still has particles, though. What great brushes!
    The alpha works as a very powerful selection service that you can store and paint in, play with, remove from, add to, multiply, divide, have it follow animated shapes, whatever so that you have an invisible (alpha) tool to use for amazing possibilities! The more I watch and learn, the more excited I get. Motion stabilization for avi footage, and you can even save animations as a brush that can play the animation as you paint in several different ways. 3D Designer is pretty cool too. I'm really interested in this animated displacement idea. Well, animated textures period.

  • bighbigh Posts: 7,437
    edited December 1969

    Yes they are. Upon receipt, you get a zip with the folders and codes, with links to the actual companies. It's not at all a PITA, though... their all very quick to respond - if response is needed. Philip Staiger set me up with it - because the sales link was in french or something. He contacted them and fixed it for me - after several discussions with him, I was convinced it was legit. The Curvy3d you get is version 1.6, but is really fun. I haven't checked to see what the cost is to go to version 2 yet - but I'll likely do it. I also had an e-mail conversation with the owner of Texture Anarchy, the PS filters plugin.

    Crazy though. By the time I upgraded PD Pro Howler 7.2 to version 8.2, taking full advantage of GPU support, the price was the same as if I bought PD Pro Howler 8.2 all by itself - well, one American dollar more.

    I bet the free version still has particles, though. What great brushes!
    The alpha works as a very powerful selection service that you can store and paint in, play with, remove from, add to, multiply, divide, have it follow animated shapes, whatever so that you have an invisible (alpha) tool to use for amazing possibilities! The more I watch and learn, the more excited I get. Motion stabilization for avi footage, and you can even save animations as a brush that can play the animation as you paint in several different ways. 3D Designer is pretty cool too. I'm really interested in this animated displacement idea. Well, animated textures period.

    give it a break - you keep repeating your self !
    you trying to get a free copy !

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    give it a break - you keep repeating your self !
    you trying to get a free copy !

    That would be frustrating since he bought it already. Hmmm...could we function in a society if purchasing power relied solely on praise rather than currency? Dart would probably embarass Warren Buffett in that world... :lol:

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Garstor said:
    bigh said:
    give it a break - you keep repeating your self !
    you trying to get a free copy !

    That would be frustrating since he bought it already. Hmmm...could we function in a society if purchasing power relied solely on praise rather than currency? Dart would probably embarass Warren Buffett in that world... :lol:LOL!
    Well, I took a break. Sorry for repeating myself.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    My apologies, Dart - I should have realised you would have done the research:)

    Cunning marketing strategy, selling old software cheap to get you hooked so you feel compelled to buy the update - like Daz giving away copies in magazines - which in my country, if you can find the mags, cost about the same as buying Carrara:)

    Not a bad price if you are content to stay with the outdated software, though.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 13,966
    edited December 1969

    Well, and it's a great way to try stuff I'd otherwise never even look twice at. Now I have the opportunity to try them all out, upgrade what I want, etc.,
    Like with Wendy and iClone. I never knew what that did until she finally got me to look into it. I thought it cloned stuff! lol
    Curvy3d is sold here, at Daz, as is Dogwaffle and Genetica, yet I really knew nothing about them until recently - and it was that bundle that got me to notice Genetica and Curvy3d - otherwise I'd have bought Dogwaffle and been done with it. Dogwaffle site also links to a free software called Anim8or, which Dogwaffle also links up with. It's a small but powerful modeler. Very friendly, easy interface, and Philip uses it to make brushes and animated brushes with.
    Dogwaffle Artist edition came out after that free version you have. Artist is the same as Howler, but without the animation menu. It can still use animated brushes, however.
    But if you're not into animation, Artist edition is really cheap!

Sign In or Register to comment.