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So we need explanation and details.

DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,502
edited December 1969 in The Commons

So, if i had a picture and posted it, can't i give credits?
Like a morph for M4, where from? or at least who?

some things require credits.

I need more details about the rules. We all do! Such a sweeping change from Daz, and no explanation, no warning, nothing at all.

Comments

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited February 2013

    I'd try to collect here all official information from DAZ3D

    From Steve Spencer:

    There have been several questions raised about the new EULA. Specifically:

    - The 7 day Warranty:
    DAZ EULA’s have always included a 7 day Warranty. The Warranty is different than our return policy. Our policy has not changed in this respect.

    - User vs. Household licenses of software:
    DAZ EULA’s have always granted a license to a single user. This is not a change. We have actually expanded the licensing by allowing multiple computers and physical locations for the user.

    - Language requiring the removal of previous content if the EULA is not accepted:
    We will be revising this EULA to remove these statements.


    Source

    I can confirm by looking at older EULAs that 7 days warranty and User vs. Household cases are truly were there before.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited February 2013

    Links for DeviantArt and ShareCG

    To be clear: It is the moderators understanding that as long as the link to ShareCG or dA goes straight to a freebie and not to a “store front” (or page where other items are sold along side the freebie) it is OK.

    Source

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    belovedalia said:
    So, if i had a picture and posted it, can't i give credits?
    Like a morph for M4, where from? or at least who?

    some things require credits.

    I need more details about the rules. We all do! Such a sweeping change from Daz, and no explanation, no warning, nothing at all.

    Look at the superintellignetmegasite rulz first. :) If it's allowed there, it's allowed here.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited February 2013

    Questions still left:
    - Are we allowed to reference commercial products from other sites by names, in regular (non-dedicated non-commercial) threads (as in "Help identify that product", contests and other threads like that)
    - Are we allowed to link to commercial products from other sites in regular (non-dedicated non-commercial) threads (as in "Help identify that product", contests and other threads like that)
    - Clarification wanted for "physical image" part of EULA and what it means in respect of 2D and 3D printing.

    Post edited by Kattey on
  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,502
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    belovedalia said:
    So, if i had a picture and posted it, can't i give credits?
    Like a morph for M4, where from? or at least who?

    some things require credits.

    I need more details about the rules. We all do! Such a sweeping change from Daz, and no explanation, no warning, nothing at all.

    Look at the superintellignetmegasite rulz first. :) If it's allowed there, it's allowed here.

    Sigh. I'm asking because i didn't see. I'd like a helpful and clear response from a Daz mod please.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    belovedalia said:
    wancow said:
    belovedalia said:
    So, if i had a picture and posted it, can't i give credits?
    Like a morph for M4, where from? or at least who?

    some things require credits.

    I need more details about the rules. We all do! Such a sweeping change from Daz, and no explanation, no warning, nothing at all.

    Look at the superintellignetmegasite rulz first. :) If it's allowed there, it's allowed here.

    Sigh. I'm asking because i didn't see. I'd like a helpful and clear response from a Daz mod please.

    Last I checked, only freebies required credits. DAZ doesn't have a problem linking to freebies. Not sure if they have a problem linking to freebies on r.com or not (I'm actually thinking they probably do not have a problem with that, but I could be wrong... since superintelligentmegasite has a huge problem with it...)

  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,502
    edited December 1969

    Wancow are you TRYING to troll everything I say? Because I'm quite sure you have not read everything's readmes and yes sometimes people Do sell things with a credit-required. I already know the freebies thing you've posted it several times!! Now can I get the HELPFUL, clear answer from a MOD that I keep asking for?

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854
    edited December 1969

    - Clarification wanted for “physical image” part of EULA and what it means in respect of 2D and 3D printing.

    Wouldn't the key to that be if the original is extractable from the image? A model can be extracted from a 3d "printing" and so can be reproduced. A image of a model is not extractable from a 2d print. There have been people who tried to extract 2d (texture) information via a 2d image but I think it is well known now that that is not a legal use or considered enough modification for the new "texture" to be sold as original work.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    One question is answered:
    We are permitted to mention commercial products from other sites.

    DAZ_BHowell wrote: So to believe that the ENTIRE forum has changed because of these new limitations imposed on this ONE SECTION is overreacting at best and disingenuous at worst.

    Customers are still able to share renders, tips and tricks, ask for help, offer help, and do everything they could previously do with one small exception.
    The only thing that has changed is that we want to emphasize and focus the commercial thread discussions on DAZ and DAZ PA products and not competitive or 3rd party products.


    Source
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    belovedalia said:
    Wancow are you TRYING to troll everything I say? Because I'm quite sure you have not read everything's readmes and yes sometimes people Do sell things with a credit-required. I already know the freebies thing you've posted it several times!! Now can I get the HELPFUL, clear answer from a MOD that I keep asking for?

    I've never heard of a commercial item that required a credit. Can you give me an example of one?

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited February 2013

    Another question is answered (with confirmation)
    We can link products from non-commercial, non-dedicated threads (like "Identify X") as long as it doesn't circumvent in some clever way the ban on commercial 3rd party posting.

    DAZ_BHowell wrote: Our intention is to encourage promotion and discussion of DAZ and DAZ PA products and limit the PROMOTION of competing products and sites, not ban every post or link to another site.

    So we would not expect every post that says “hey what hair did you use on that figure?” “Oh its that hair .... on xyz site” to be removed.

    However, if it appears that someone is really just trying to get around the TOS to promote a product then posts may be deleted.
    Emphasis mine

    [url= http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/241958/]Source

    Confirmation:
    Question:So we _can_ link other products in non-commercial threads as long as it doesn’t violate common sense and purpose of this thread?
    Answer: DAZ_BHowell wrote: "Yes… we don’t view a link in a thread somewhere that comes up in a conversation the same as a promotional thread in a designated “commercial” section.


    Source
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    Khory said:
    - Clarification wanted for “physical image” part of EULA and what it means in respect of 2D and 3D printing.

    Wouldn't the key to that be if the original is extractable from the image? A model can be extracted from a 3d "printing" and so can be reproduced. A image of a model is not extractable from a 2d print. There have been people who tried to extract 2d (texture) information via a 2d image but I think it is well known now that that is not a legal use or considered enough modification for the new "texture" to be sold as original work.
    I can speculate a lot about what it means but I wish to hear official clarification on it.

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,458
    edited December 1969

    The irony is that you could type the name of product, the store it's in and the vendor name... so long as you don't include a direct link - think of other stores the same way we would refer to Renderotica.

  • Satira CapriccioSatira Capriccio Posts: 523
    edited December 1969

    Are you referring to the DAZ 3D site?

    wancow said:
    superintellignetmegasite
  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited February 2013

    Jabba101 said:
    The irony is that you could type the name of product, the store it's in and the vendor name... so long as you don't include a direct link - think of other stores the same way we would refer to Renderotica.

    You can include direct link as long as it is not to avoid the ban on commercial 3rd party promotion.
    From what I understand, if somebody asks to identify a haircut or an outfit, for example, you can link directly to it even if it is commercial product on another site. I'm not sure if you can praise it, though.
    Post edited by Kattey on
  • JuliKJuliK Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    superintellignetmegasite

    LOL

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,882
    edited December 1969

    Kattey said:
    Jabba101 said:
    The irony is that you could type the name of product, the store it's in and the vendor name... so long as you don't include a direct link - think of other stores the same way we would refer to Renderotica.

    You can include direct link as long as it is not to avoid the ban on commercial 3rd party promotion.
    From what I understand, if somebody asks to identify a haircut or an outfit, for example, you can link directly to it even if it is commercial product on another site. I'm not sure if you can praise it, though.

    I'm going to guess that effusive praise, or threads created to praise a product on another site are out, but "I've had good luck with..." or "I like ... because..." when replying to someone looking for a certain type of product will probably be okay. Still, a clearer definition of how much we can say about products on other sites would be nice.

  • KatteyKattey Posts: 2,899
    edited December 1969

    DaWaterRat said:
    Kattey said:
    Jabba101 said:
    The irony is that you could type the name of product, the store it's in and the vendor name... so long as you don't include a direct link - think of other stores the same way we would refer to Renderotica.

    You can include direct link as long as it is not to avoid the ban on commercial 3rd party promotion.
    From what I understand, if somebody asks to identify a haircut or an outfit, for example, you can link directly to it even if it is commercial product on another site. I'm not sure if you can praise it, though.

    I'm going to guess that effusive praise, or threads created to praise a product on another site are out, but "I've had good luck with..." or "I like ... because..." when replying to someone looking for a certain type of product will probably be okay. Still, a clearer definition of how much we can say about products on other sites would be nice.
    I suspect they can't really define it at this point without letting clever people follow the word of the system while abusing the spirit.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    ...I've never heard of a commercial item that required a credit. Can you give me an example of one?

    She never said 'require.' People often *want* to provide information/credit on items used in the creation of their image for their own reasons, as a nod to the creators, as a service to the viewer, etc... Not just because 'Attribute' is in the copyright.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Khory said:
    ... A model can be extracted from a 3d "printing" ..

    Using 'current' technology, this is not exactly correct. A 3D scan produces a point cloud, which is quite different and unrelated to the base mesh. Furthermore, most items produced would be a conglomeration of items that for all intents and purposes would be fused in such a way that no particular item could be extracted in any meaningful way. I suspect the real issue behind this is that with 3D printing becoming a near term reality, companies may try and hedge their bets as to what licensing issues may come up. A company can always grant more rights easily enough, trying to come back afterwards and retract rights previously granted under a license is problematic at best.

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