OT: Ryzen is coming out soon!
mtl1
Posts: 1,501
in The Commons
AMD's Ryzen is coming out soon and all the leaked benches seem to indicate that we're going to be getting Skylake/Broadwell-E performance for a fraction of the price :D
Is anyone planning to upgrade within the next month?
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One hopes they have a better stock cooler than the AMD A10 APU series.... although it looks like there are some Ryzen's with a 65w TDP.. AMD's have a history of running hot..
EDIT: - Ah, never mnd, looks like they will ship with the new AMD Wraith as a stock cooler..
Indeed; really looking forward to this.
I was going to build a Xeon system, then saw that there were alternatives to Intel: finally AMD just might be back in the game; last time they were, they consistently kicked Intel's collective ass.
I'll still probably stick to Intel: multiple times bitten/twice shy. I burned up quite a few AMD's *sigh*. Never even made an Intel warm ;). Will be interesting to see how people do with the new AMD chips tho.
Laurie
Well, the new chips run at significantly lower TDP's than most of Intel's current offerings. So it will be very interesting to see how these turn out.
The leaked tests point to some seriously impressive gains. They may not beat Intel's best chips, but it looks like they could come extremely close...and cost a fraction of the price. I'm not at all concerned about how well these will multitask. I wonder how well they could run Iray in cpu mode, or if doing cpu+gpu will see any gains.
At the very least, this should make Intel a bit nervous. Did anyone happen to notice that Intel's most recent releases were cheaper than the previous generation? You know full well that would never have happened if AMD was not releasing Ryzen. And this is what I ultimately hope for, even I do stick with Intel, that AMD competes and makes Intel lower their prices. Competition is a good thing!
..well for now the big hype appears to be gaming. Looking over the motherboards that will be available, most have only 4 DIMM slots (some only 2) are dual channel and, only have a single PCIe 3.0 x 16 expansion slot.
Think for now I'll stick with my Dual 8 core Sandy Bridge 3.0 GHz Xeon setup with 128 GB of quad channel DDR3 and x3 PCIe 3.0 x 16 slot build.
You and me both, tho I only have a measley 64 gigs of ram. LOL
Laurie
@kyotokid - I'm looking to build a better computer that can handle animation. What motherboard are you using? Sounds pretty robust!
What on earth, 128GB? I'm only at 32GB at the moment :D
Anyhow, I was looking at the leaked benches and the INT/FP benches look really *really* good :)
That's comparing a workstation build to a consumer build. The focus is on gaming because the gaming market is the one shining growth area for computing. So of course they will target them and these chips are designed to compete with all of Intel's i series chips. The latest high end i7's go well over $1000 a pop, so a $500 chip that can perform about as well is a major shakeup. I'm hoping for some price drops.
The workstation form of Ryzen will be "Naples". Naples will have version with 32 cores and 64 threads, so a dual chip motherboard would boast 64 cores and 128 threads.
would be interested to see what rendering performance that gives. :)
It really will be interesting given the improvements Ryzen has made on the consumer line. And if Naples undercuts Xeon at costs like Ryzen has undercut i7... oh boy.
Here's a prototype dual chip Naples board.
I personally can't wait for Ryzen to come out, it's shaping up to be the biggest thing in pc tech in a long time, and there's a lot of potential for some significant market disruptions. However, I have been disappointed not to see any workstation level motherboards. Some of the X370 boards will support 2 GPUs at pcie X8 speeds, but that's not good enough for iray in my opinion.
If you're looking to animate with iray, I highly recommend against a dual-xeon board. The cost simply is not worth it. My first workstation was a dual-xeon 2650 V2 (Sandy Bridge, 8 cores each, 32 threads), and once I got into Octane it was basically wasted. The lower clock speeds hurt performance when sending geometry to the gpus, and certain actions in photoshop are slower. I then built a Z97-based workstation around the i7 4790K, which is only 4 cores, and that was more productive for me. Recently upgraded to the X99 platform with a 6-core i7 (because z97 only supported 32GB of ram), and it's plenty.
However, if you're looking to animate in 3Delight, or you're going to do a lot of editing and postwork in Premiere Pro or After Effects, then you should probably go for the Asus X99 Workstation Board, which supports a single xeon, or any of the Haswell-E or Broadwell-E core i7s, or the Asus Z10-PED8 Workstation board, which supports dual xeons.
I think the build Kyoto Kid is referring to is hypothetical, but if you wanted to go old school and use an X79 board with dual xeon support, the best bet (only bet, really,) is the Asus Z9-PED8. However, it only supports up to xeon 2600 v2 series CPUs, not V3 or V4.
Incidentally, I'm looking to get rid of such a system if anyone is interested: Dual 8-core xeons, the Asus Z9-PED8 motherboard, and 64 GB of EEC ram. Send me a message if interested.
...well that dual Xeon system is still a WIP (should have made that a bit more clear I guess). I am still evaluating MBs as with server MBs some are designed for rack mounts and others tower cases. Another thing to watch for with DDR3 server memory is it is generally optimised for specific brands of MBs.
My current system uses and old ASUS P6T X58, which I will admit has been pretty rock solid..
I'm running dual Intel E5-2670 2.60Ghz 20M Cache 8-Core 115W Processor SR0KX with 256 GB of ram and a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5
Was running AMD 8370 8 core with 32 GB ram same video card
So... the 1800X beat the 6900K in Cinebench by 9%
How does that translate to CPU rendering performance in both 3DL and Iray? I know that Iray scales directly with the number of cores and clock speed, but what about 3DL?
Both 3DL and iRay in CPU mode will use all your cores/threads. It looks like the 1800x and 6900K will be similar in both single core and multicore processing with 1800x being half the price (assuming the leaks and AMD's released benchmarks are accurate). The 7700K (and 6700K) appears to remain the best per core performance for the price. Single core cinebench r15 scores are 162 for 1800x and 6900K. About 195 for 7700K. So for multithreading apps as in 3DL and iRay, more cores is gonna help (fyi 1800x has 8 cores, 16 threads). For single or per core performance, it's not up to par of a 7700K, but not horrible either. Also, this is a stock 1800x @3.6 Ghz. It has turbo speed of 4.1 Ghz so it may get better per core performance than what has currently been reported and can be overclocked beyond that. We'll have to wait until the official benchmarks are out on the 28th before we know for sure. Having said that, the 7700K overclocks easily, but is 4 cores.
I pre-ordered the 1800x. It'll be WAY better than what I have now. Should be well over twice the speed of my fx-8350. Now, if Corsair can create a new bracket for my water cooler, I'd be all set. In the meantime, I had to get a temporary air cooler because the X versions don't come with a cooler.
Ugh really? They aren't going to be shipping with a Wraith Max cooler like the leaked SKUs showed? :( I hope they fix that a few months after release...
....wow that's even more of a "beast" than my design. 128 GB is as high as I can go though for quad channel memory as I will be using W7 Pro which tops out at 192 GB. Not wanting to turn my next workstation into a desktop smartphone with 8.1.
I'm looking at the E5 2690 as it is close in clock speed to my current i7 at 2.9GHz. 4 times the CPU threads my current system has should be a marked improvement. It's too bad Daz doesn't support network rendering like Carrara does, it would be great to send one scene over to render and use my current system to work on another.
Best time for multi-cpu testing when you can get a pair of 16-Core opterons for $20 on Ebay now... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-2-AMD-Opteron-6174-12-Core-2-2GHz-CPUs-G34-/272412440171?hash=item3f6d0bf66b:g:aM0AAOSwzaJX~-o9
I'm quite curious to see how that does with sickleyield's benchmark. I'm also curious to how it preforms in GPU+CPU mode.
I was confused about it not having a cooler, as everything I have seen shows it. But indeed the 1800x is available in both options. There are 2 SKUs, one has an air cooler, the other does not. I wonder what the price difference is.
Here is a link to the Ryzen SKU lineup. They even have 2 different coolers.
https://videocardz.com/66163/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x-1700-wraith-max-and-spire-coolers-confirmed
...yeah the concept is a WIP for now as I am still doing research. The E5-2690s are pretty much a go as they offer the best performance for the price (415$ ea at Newegg). I am not looking to do animation, nor have Photoshop, and will primarily be doing CPU based rendering (Daz and Carrara) as I am looking at producing ultra high quality large format scenes for physical printing that would tax the resources of a 6,300$ Quadro P6000. So far this system (including a 1070 for proofing work) would be around half the cost of a P6000.
If that Z9 MB supported 128 GB, I'd be sending you a PM. It has more than enough PCIe 3.0 x 16 slots so I could drop in a PCI SSD. and still have 2 left if I decided to drop in a pair of 1070s. CPUs are 2.6 GHz with a turbo boost of 3.4, not much worse than I currenly have (1st Generation Nehalem i7 and Sandy Bridge is a few generations newer).
For what it's worth, the motherboard I'm talking about is here:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z9PED8_WS/overview/
It supports 256 GB of ECC RAM, but I only have 64 GB installed. 4 of the DIMM slots are empty, so you could theoretically add another of the same kit and get 128GB. It only accepts 64GB of Non-ECC RAM. And if you were to drop in a PCI SSD, you would actually have enough space for 3 more dual-slot GPUs, not just 2. Or 6 quadro p4000 cards. Also for what it's worth, I have 512 GB Samsung 950 Pro as my primary drive in my current main system, and I regret the purchase. None of the benefits of the PCIE interface amount to real world benefits for me. Compared to a 1 TB Samsung 850 EVO (slightly cheaper), apps don't open faster, computer doesn't boot faster, and I don't have to move around large files frequently enough to notice its fast read and write speeds, and even then, it thermal throttles easily.
...ah forgot the "WS" only looked the the base Z9PED8. Let me think for a bit.
Would still be a pretty big step up from my current system. So PCIe SSDs are really only good for moving large data sets. Good to know because yes SATA SSDs are more affordable.
It looks like Ryzen might actually be a bit of a dud for gamers. HOWEVER, Daz Studio is not a video game. If you die in Daz Studio, you will die in real life! Ryzen is doing extremely well in many computing tasks, including rendering. Here are some rendering tests done by Anandtech. They test a number of renderers, like Blender and Corona. Of course they don't test Iray, because why would they? At any rate, Ryzen performs well in all of these render tests. They don't win every time, but then when you look at how close they are, and then the prices, that really changes things! They even include a Xeon in these tests.
The results for Blender are pretty incredible.
Link to that page and full review here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/the-amd-zen-and-ryzen-7-review-a-deep-dive-on-1800x-1700x-and-1700/18
There will be a lot of these chips coupled with 1080ti's...i think they will perform adequately in gaming...in production, they should soar! Also, the socket will be around a long time. In a few years, you will probably only need to swap to the current $500 chip and have a system that is extremely long-lasting and high-performing and low-costing. Normally they say you can have it good, fast, or cheap -- pick two. This may be a rare exception that gives you all three.
Yeah, its looking real good. And its not like it is terrible at gaming, just not as good as the current i7-7700. I hope that's not trouble for AMD, because gaming is such a big part of the market today. Hopefully enough gamers will pick it them up, and people working with productivity software should buy these.
Consider this: You can buy a the i7-6900k for over a grand, or you could buy a 1800X *AND* a GTX 1080 for the same cost. WOW. Or you could step down to the 1700X and reach for the 1080ti!!
...but only get 2 - 4 dual channel DIMM slots. If you render big scenes with heavy atmospheric effects and/or reflection in high quality and large format, you could still find the process dropping to CPU mode even with 8 GB. I'd rather have 128 GB of quad channel memory backing me up instead 32 or 64 GB of dual channel to avoid memory paging lag.
...that's a pretty spendy little rig there with 512 GB of memory and dual 32 core Naples CPUs (seen it over on Tom's Hardware). Also the only OS's it runs on is Linux and Windows Server, so forget rendering in Daz Iray.
I believe that Anand's rendering results are for CPU-based rendering with no GPU assist. I wonder what they would look like for GPU-assisted rendering. How much superiority (if any) would Ryzen have in that scenario?
That is correct, there is no GPU usage in these tests as far as I know. The tests are only for the CPU. Its really hard to say. My guess is Ryzen would benefit GPU only rendering to a degree, more if you use both CPU and GPU together.
8 gb VRAM is good number for a majority of users, and 32 gb of system RAM is suitable for most, and certainly 64, as most DDR4 kits can do will serve even more. You are not like most users. While I'd just love to be able to run a server type of board with 128 gb of ram, that is never going to happen in my lifetime. The 1080ti is quite probably the best I can do, and the price for performance it delivers is the best Nvidia has done in a very long time.
IMO, I think we will stay at about 12 gb for a while. We might see some 16 GB cards next year, but only Titans, and those will be once again $1200 or more. That's because Nvidia doesn't have competition to their Titan class. I don't think Vega will effect Titan pricing, they are only competing with the GTX series for now (The Titan is not a GTX card.) Nividia will only increase VRAM if AMD does so first, and I don't think there will be any 16gb Vegas. HBM is expensive, so AMD will avoid going all out on that unless really needed. As these cards target gamers, not professionals, most games don't need anything close to these amounts of VRAM anyway. For gaming cards, 12gb is overkill, even for 4k resolutions.
The simple fact is the gaming market is making all this possible. Without this growth in the market for PC gaming, none of this would happening right now, certainly not like it is.