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There is a short-film youtube showcase in my signature. Several selections there. Some full stories, some trailers, one or two exceptional tests but the playlist is really about animated short films.
It does seem to be a topic that comes up again and again, so I decided to curate what was available.... on Youtube.
This doesn't include any of the live action films and videos that used Carrara as an fx engine. Or TV commercials.... or print ads.... or graphic novel/comic... or motion graphics.... any of which might create a buzz to people who are interested in those media.
Okay, well maybe English is your second language or something, but I think what you INTENDED to say to say was this: "While some in the CG community might dismiss premade content for various reasons, both legitimate and not-so-legitimate, many in the CG community believe that pre-made content is good. In fact many are big fans of premade content".
Because by saying "....the CG community does not believe..." it clearly implies that you are talking about, and FOR, the entire community in general, and describing a general trait of the community, which applies to a MAJORITY of the community. So unless you are the designated spokesman for the CG community, you might want to clarify your statements.
Fair enough. LOL. And no... English is not my second language. Nice jab though. ;)
That might be the initial reaction. But, I think people need to be inspired and shown what the software can do. But, I can see that there are those who think the software is a Staples "Easy Button".
For me, DAZ Studio is a pre-production tool. A virtual studio. It can easily handle renderings for story boards and even pre-vis animations. It can be a great tool for solving pacing and shot setups. I remember watching some of the old behind the scenes footage for Return of the Jedi and they were using action figures and a diorama for the pre-vis. Even some of the pre-vis for Revenge of the Sith was very basic. DAZ Studio is great for that kind of work. Even production paintings/illustrations can benifit from DAZ Studio. If I'm not mistaken, Sam R. Kennedy uses DAZ as a base for his illustrations.
If someone made a short film, using DAZ Studio for some of the uses stated above, then that would inspire people to check it out. I know there were a lot of people who started out in the game industry modding existing games. This got them interested and they took the dive professionally. DAZ does the same thing. It gets people familiar with working in a virtual 3d environment. Then, they can try more advanced programs like Blender, Carrara, Cinema 4D, etc. By then they know if they want to go pro or not. At the least they've found a hobby.
I suppose it depends upon your goal. The same discussion we have when the topic of making a short film comes up...what's the goal of the film? Nobody can answer that...
Do you only want people to buy the software? Or do you want to expose them so that maybe they will find a new profession? Or maybe a new hobby? Personally, I couldn't care less about exposing others to 3D. In the professional world there is a HUGE glut of people who want to work in the industry, and who have varying levels of talent, if any. Nor could I care less if others find a new hobby.
Yeah, I suppose it would be nice if more people buy the software, and maybe if the market for Carrara multiples by 100 or 1,000 overnight then DAZ might decide to develop it, which might be good for me depending on what they decide to develop. But otherwise, who cares? There's a lot of other software out there that's as good or better in many ways.
So yeah, a short film is a nice idea, but like I say, I doubt it will happen, and even if it does, what real good will it do?
As with the point of your statement, I agree. I think that the whole realm of CG would improve even more if there was less division.
A lot of that division, however, is not due to one group liking or dis-liking the other, so much, as it is that folks are just busy working within their own tight-knit areas of expertise, which draws them further away from the other. For one example, I started in Poser and wished like mad that I could tweak my meshes and/or make my own morphs on the fly - without a pile of strategic routines to get the content back and forth. I've found Carrara, and never really looked at what Poser users have been doing ever since. Not because I look down on the Poser community, but because I'm busy learning new things with Carrara - and what I can get the content to do within.
But then again - someone working in Blender may have heard of Poser, but never used it - and therefore draws opinions from those surrounding him or her - rather than knowing for themselves.
I'll have to have another look at TurboSquid. I was just there the other day getting G-Max again! lol Feels like a million years since I've made Neverwinter Nights content using that - which, as you've pointed out already, is what got me started in all of this to begin with.
Last night I had the idea of using Neverwinter Nights toolset for making pre-viz style story boards. On modern computers, it's very fast. And with all of the community content which, by license, has to be free, it's amazing what can be built in that easy and fast interface. It was during a battle in the Beggar's nest that gave me the idea. So I built a replica out of memory of Faveral's Medieval Docks product - but made it far more expansive to encapsulate more of what's going on all around. This way, many more story boards and pre-viz could benefit from this one area. Now there's a simple $10 add-on pack to your toolset that comes with a buttload of D&D fun! LOL
For sci fi, which I'm doing a lot of, the d20 Modern pack fulfills most of my needs without ever stepping foot into gmax. I was actually following a new link to gmax - seeing if it could be licensed for use again. Last time I had it, Autodesk stopped authorizing its use.
It's just that the last time I tried rendering in either Poser or Daz Studio I was amazed at how spoiled I got with how fast Carrara renders - and would simply prefer it, too... for pre-viz over either of those two options - if I had Carrara in my kit, that is. So, the segregation is not just Poser content vs non-content users, but much more than that. It seemed to me, at least a few years ago, that even Carrara users were considered Poser pushers. I can see that - totally. I am one of those to be blamed for that - as I bought Carrara to be used like I would Poser - but with all of Carraras added benefits. Wow. I'm still discovering them! They just keep coming!
Funny, however. I have been seeing many of the new promo videos for 3d software lately. Many of them include stuff that Carrara has had for a long time now - but might be handled differently. Many of the really neat things that Carrara can do are hidden from what people talk about, put in promos, add in their list of cool things about Carrara - simply because (I think) we get used to them - or to some, might never try them - so are undiscovered.
That is something I love about using Blender. There is so much education available. Both free and paid for content. It made it easy to start getting into Blender. I think DAZ has some good tutorials but not on the level that Blender Cookie or Blender Guru have. I think those two sites are the biggest reason Blender has been taking off the last few years. Without decent education, many of the software's features and capabilities get lost and people get frustrated and walk away. Or at the very least, they miss out on things they could have done with the software. I know that Gimp and Inkscape suffer from a lack of tutorials. Gimp's main website still has old boring tutorials. I was able to find much more exciting ones by Googling. Gimp should have linked to them strait from their site like Blender does.
Yes, a goal is very needed in a big production. For Blender, they use the open movie projects to push development of new features and to showcase where it's at when they are done. I think in the last Blender movie, that was overly focused on and the film suffered as a result. The characters were underdeveloped, the acting was poor and the effects they were trying to showcase were not implemented to their fullest extent. They took on too much for the budget and time they had.
So, you're saying that the industry is over-saturated with people seeking work and not enough jobs to hire all of them? And the less people in the industry, the better the chances of those with talent getting a job? I think that's the way it is right now in every profession. But, I personally feel that people need to stop going through the usual channels and start forming new businesses. More studios less power condensed into the usual places. But, that's easier said than done. Although, with streaming media and web entertainment, I think we are at a crossroads in the entertainment industry. Kind of like when motion pictures started to replace live theater and tv replaced radio dramas. There is a new frontier and we have to decide if it's business as usual, with the powerful taking over this new media outlet or people forming new competition.
Lucas proved this to be possible when he first formed Lucasfilm. It had a great run on it's own. Probably would have continued for generations had he found a suitable person to pass on the business to. Time for some new Lucasfilms to pop up through digital media.
As far as people getting into the hobby of CG art, I want more of it. I'm an artist at heart and love to see people use the media as a form of art. The whole entertainment industry came out of people who did art as a hobby and then took it to the next level. I think the industry is suffering from the fact that it's looked at as more of a business and less as art. As a result, we see more and more remakes, reboots and sequels. More of the same and fewer and fewer new ideas. The business side of the industry wants to play it safe (understandably so) and the artists want to try new things. It's a tug of war match that the business side is winning. But new outlets of media and cheaper easier ways of creating content will lessen the consolidation of power. And it gives people a way of expressing their ideas and making the journey of life more fun. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
Maybe, I'm just reading into your comments, but, you sound a bit jaded about the industry (both hobbyist and business sides).
@IsamuDyson:
You keep mentioning DAZ Studio and Poser or generically DAZ. You do know that this is a Carrara forum? While Carrara is owned by DAZ, it is clearly not Studio or Poser. Carrara can use content, but it is far more capable than either of them. It's great to hear from the perspective of a Blender user, but DAZ Studio and Poser are bit OT in this forum.
True, but this is relevant to Carrara too.
So if you want to get a rigged V4 into Blender, as the title of the thread suggests, then it seems to me that that discussion would be more productive than the old tired debate between those that use content and those that roll their own. I tend to use a bit of both which is why Carrara is so cool and useful for me, and why Poser and DAZ Studio are fairly irrelevant to a discussion in the Carrara forum- You're locked in to pre-made content aside from simple primitive shapes.
Oh really? How many times have you tried to get hired as a professional 3D artist somewhere? Has this happened often to you?
Oh really? How many times have you tried to get hired as a professional 3D artist somewhere? Has this happened often to you?
Oh really? Are you suggesting he hasn't?
I am suggesting that, at best, he is taking a few incidents that he has either personally experienced or heard about from a third party and making a broad generalization that I know to be, in general, totally fallacious. I have personally hired many CG artists who have never once used any 3D software, and they were hired mainly because they had incredible artistic talent, and great work ethic and can work well in a team environment. And I know that many or most employers in the SFX industry are FAR less concerned about specific software skills than they are with artistic and other skills.
And by the way, what is your contribution to the discussion, and why are you acting on his behalf? Or maybe, as usual, you're just trying to stick up for your buddy, without any real knowledge of the subject?
Joe sayeth:
Joe, calm down. Why do you attack people like you do?
It's time you realised that there is no need to attack people.
We all come here because we want to share in a community spirit.
When you attack people it just makes them not want to come to this forum.
How about acting in a well mannered civilised way for a change?
How about showing a little community spirit perhaps?
Please.
PS: most people acknowledge replies to their questions - even if the answers are downright silly or unhelpful - as mine often are ;)
So here's a good place to start : http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/21464/
I am not attacking anyone. I am challenging a statement I know to be misleading. But what you guys want is ANYTHING you say to be accepted without any challenge whatsoever, and anyone who dares to challenge or correct you is automatically a bad person, worthy of name calling. THAT is the core issue, not whether I'm being mean and nasty like you all want to believe.
Personally, I feel that in a REAL community people should care about making statements that are helpful and not misleading, and based on truth and facts, to the best of their ability. Because this stuff gets archived for years, and people find what gets posted and sometimes rely on it.
If you lead people to believe that, in this case, you aren't going to get a job if your demo reel is rendered in Poser, you are doing a disservice to anyone who might be a great artist and happen to use Poser. Is that to be commended? I don't think so. It's to be corrected. But you guys HATE with a passion anyone who corrects you. You always have and always will.
I merely asked him to clarify the basis for his broad generalization, which I think is a fair request, don't you? If it's based on a few incidents or hearsay, people should know that it's just an opinion with not a lot of data behind it, don't you think? Well, probably not, but anyway.
Hmmmm.... I guess some of us have different ideas on what is defined as helpful and educational...
I wonder what this would be considered? Sage and learned advice perhaps?
Joe, in my book, insinuating that people are lying and/or denigrating them is known as "attacking" them.
Also calling people "dude" is, also in my book, an insult.
Maybe it's a cultural thing?
On topic. It's obvious to me that if a potential employee came in with a knock you down portfolio it wouldn't matter what software they used.
Regardless of Dartanbeck's experience in job applications.... if two people came into the office with the same portfolio and one used "non industry standard software", all things being equal, then I know who I would pick to work for me.
Please note: "all things being equal".
What is "industry standard software"?
I'll bow to your obviously superior knowledge in that particular regard.
For what it's worth, I'd hire Dartanbeck for his obvious commitment, sense of humour and contagious enthusiasm.
Some employers just don't know what they are missing.
Okay, fine. As usual, there is absolutely nothing whatsoever I can say to change your minds that I am a terrible person and always at fault and always attacking and cruel, so I'll stop trying. Anything I say is automatically seen thru hate-filled glasses, and you will never accept anything I say objectively. And in doing so, you become the petty, hate filled people you accuse others of being.
Joe, it's the delivery method that's failing, that's all.
On topic.
It always hurts my feelings to be accused of a content user.
I once modelled a wheel barrow. It wasn't very good, but it made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Quick tut:
Take a mesh box. Cut out the top and one side. Add thickness with add thickness button.
Put another meshbox underneath it.
Make it long and skinny. Duplicate that and spread them out so they look like handles.
Use a cylinder for the wheel.
And put that underneath the three mesh boxes with the Carrara Z axis thingy pointing up.
Render.
Presto.
See, anyone can model. Even I can do it.
Next lesson we use the smooth command. ;)
That's right. It's always somebody else that has the angry, hate filled problem. :roll:
Joe, it's the delivery method that's failing, that's all.
On topic.
It always hurts my feelings to be accused of a content user.
I once modelled a wheel barrow. It wasn't very good, but it made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Quick tut:
Take a mesh box. Cut out the top and one side. Add thickness with add thickness button.
Put another meshbox underneath it.
Make it long and skinny. Duplicate that and spread them out so they look like handles.
Use a cylinder for the wheel.
And put that underneath the three mesh boxes with the Carrara Z axis thingy pointing up.
Render.
Presto.
See, anyone can model. Even I can do it.
Next lesson we use the smooth command. ;)
I wouldn't bother trying to placate him. This is his way of getting kicks. Rile up the natives. I shouldn't have taken the bait myself.
Hi Evil, Heh :) No it's okay to be human..
I think that Dart, yourself and I have grown thick skins.
It's the people that no longer post here that make me sad.
It is not abiding by this criteria that does tend to stop people posting to the forums.
I gave up waiting for something helpful from you. The vast majority of your scribblings are attacks like these.
Oh forget it...I'm going back to ignoring you.
Guys, chill. Joe actually censored himself last night after posting one of his off-color "embellishments" on the emotional state of the proposed "Carrara movie project".... I know most people won't care, but I saw his post (rolled my eyes but decided to post information instead of getting offended), and I appreciated later when I saw he had removed the comment all on his own without prompting.... Joe just has a certain way of observing things, and then a certain way of passing along his observations.... There have been plenty of other crankypusses on the forum, I'm choosing to appreciate his restraint - imagine all the things he DOESN'T say. LOL!
Meanwhile this totally bourgois idea that we "need" a narrative cartoon for the "good of Carrara" - WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE ONES THAT ACTUALLY EXIST is quickly becoming my most hated topic ever. If YOU want a full-length animated "movie" then GO MAKE IT and stop trying to get someone else to do it for you, and someone else else to pay for it.... SERIOUSLY, if you can't be bothered to click on a link (in my signature) to take 30 minutes or so to see what's out there already, there's a word for you: LAZY.
Stop blaming Joe. He keeps saying what Carrara users (imho) need to realize: Projects don't get completed or abandoned because of software, they get completed or abandoned because of human resources. The people who were MOST VOCAL in the Carrara movie thread were actually the SAME PEOPLE who kept saying they didn't want to take charge or impose a specific direction to the project.... Seriously guys, If you choose to comment but can't be bothered to contribute the fault is completely with YOU, not Carrara or DAZ or anyone else. CHEERLEADERS DON'T WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. SOMEONE ACTUALLY HAS TO RUN WITH THE BALL. Obviously a group project can't work without a leader, and no one wanted to go with my suggestion of keeping it smaller and independent (but loosely connected) as a community showcase (in my opinion, still a good way to START working together where no one's feelings get hurt, and no one is held back by other people's time commitments).
I'm going to go ahead and SAY what Joe is probably biting his lip about.... If users can't learn to support existing projects, then it the USERS' FAULT that finished projects are not being posted here. EVERYTIME I post links to the short films that exist, it has been ignored. *shrug* Good luck with that and I hope everyone returns the "support" when you post yours.... No one was ever able to decide what the goal of the project was, so it's ridiculous to pretend it was ever going to spontaneously emerge from the sea as a finished short film complete with Hollywood cliches and inane sexist plotlines.... It takes a TEAM of writers and marketing gurus to come up with that crap. You actually have to work at it, and it helps if you have a narcissistic ego and play to the lowest common denominator. Remember that Big Buck Bunny ends with a fart joke....
It's easy to complain, a lot harder to follow through to completion. The Carrara community is too cut off from the real world. We spend so much time whining that we get no love from the Poserverse, meanwhile what are WE doing to bring "REAL 3D" to the DAZzers?...? I never want to see another pre-fab hootchie dance on a dinosaur from 30ft away - that doesn't even look CLOSE to a shortfilm made for the real world audience.... Movies start with a script, not a cool looking spaceship.... These "group projects" were designed to fail, and quite frankly that's a good thing because failure is a LEARNING PROCESS not a reason to give up.... No one wanted to take charge, so the people with some production experience kept quiet and allowed the topic to meander to it's inevitable non-conclusion.
Personally, I cannot be involved in any "script" or community project that does not pass the Brechdel Test. We all have our own ideas of what would be cool, our own baby epics, so let's go work on them -- the power of Carrara is that it's easy enough to learn so the entire process CAN be done by one person... BUT don't bother to post them here because no one cares. The project I'm most interested in following is Scifi Funk's, but even he posts more on Facebook because who needs this tiny insulated community that can't be bothered to support the existing animation projects that are out there...?
Come on guys. If you want to point out BAD BEHAVIOR lets look at the real reasons no one posts their projects here, and stop jumping on the people who say the un-sugar-coated truth.
• HOW do we organize?
• HOW do we work together?
• WHAT is the goal (to flatter Carrara or to flatter ourselves)?
• HOW do we learn to support the existing projects so the more can be made, bigger and better...?
If the HONEST goal is to get more animation projects out there that showcase Carrara, how come you don't post (or analyze, or even acknowledge) the ones that ARE THERE? I think we all know the answer.
There are a dozen of those "write a novel in a month" kind of projects, ones for animation, ones for comics.... Let's look to the BIGGER world of 3D and try to interest REAL audiences who don't give a crap about software... THAT'S when you'll start interesting people in Carrara's capabilities -- and for sure don't bother posting it here because no one will care. Post it on Facebook and on Youtube and out there in the real world (look at Wendy's subscriber numbers!!!). Users HERE just want to have fun in Carrara - and there's nothing wrong with that. Just stop blaming other people when you can't be bothered to do your research or make the effort yourself. No one OWES us a Carrara movie.
I thought I had already made the movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKPqzDWyOoo
It's EXCELLENT Wendy! Conflict and resolution! A full story arc! <3</p>
I have personally hired many CG artists who have never once used any 3D software, and they were hired mainly because they had incredible artistic talent, and great work ethic and can work well in a team environment. And I know that many or most employers in the SFX industry are FAR less concerned about specific software skills than they are with artistic and other skills.
Wow. I think you and I see more eye to eye than I originally thought. And your right about correcting people. My wording of my initial statement did misrepresent what I was trying to say and your correction and this statement summed it up perfectly.
A dose of reality here is always welcome. I never see Joe's comments as attacks. He wants to know why someone is saying what they are saying. He bases his observations and comments from decades in the CG business. I'd much rather hear his take on some issues over some others. He's not always correct, but he is more often than not from what I know and pros I know say. I think some folks take offense much too easily.
I'm bothered as well by wrong information posted here. I stopped using Carrara a few years ago just because I read posts that said this was broken or that didn't work because I didn't want to waste time as it's at a premium for me, but came to find out years later it was those users personal issues or system problems. I ignore those users now as I realize there are some who think they know how to use the program, maybe with certain features they are proficient, but in others not so much. I just recently went on an information search trying to find if Carrara could do a certain function and immediately had what looked like a good answer in Google from these forums, but after further digging, only because I came across a conflicting fact, I found the original answer was incorrect. How many other people trying to find out the real info run into bogus info here?
I welcome Joe's attempts to get fact based discussion.
That is a very common sentiment. But as people here keep learning, it's FAR easier said than done. We've had many aborted attempts to make a short film here, the most recent one died a few months ago. Most people here are not professional artists or filmmakers, nor are they familiar with the skills and requirements to actually MAKE a short film. In fact, I'd guess that most people here think that being able to operate Carrara IS the only skill and requirement necessary for making a short film. Usually the effort dies because nobody can agree on even the most basic requirements, like a story line, or theme, or purpose and goals. And few people are willing to actually do what is necessary to make the effort succeed, like suppress their own desires and egos and work in a team effort.
So while it's a nice idea, it ain't gonna happen. People have been talking about it for many years, but the effort usually doesn't last more than a few weeks of discussion and argument, with people storming off in a huff because they can't get what they want.
Let me tell you what are the first issues you have to face even if you are a professional (a very relative notion indeed) in cg industry:
- limited use of daz contents due to EULA; you know what I mean
- no chance to buy volume licenses for a regulated or discounted price
- very little direct help from daz (no frontdesk for anyone)
Even only these 3 basic facts:
- don't stimulate large-scale productions
- do not allow collaboration within the daz community
- don't allow you to have firm deadlines due to lack of certainty about software bugs and issues - more uncertainties>more costs