Novica's XYZ Dome Orientation Lighting: Default Setting Experiments

NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
edited January 11 in Art Studio

I'm experimenting with Dome Orientation, using the Default Iray lighting, and thought I'd share. I primarily have been rotating the Y Dome, but once I played around with the domes, it was quite fun to see the varied results.   Many people never use the default Iray lights, so this won't appeal to everyone, but you might try these settingswith the default setting, then on other Environment Maps and see what results you get. (They will vary a LOT) 

I'm having fun playing around with it. 

I used Dome and Scene (Draw Dome Off) with Infinite Sphere. My Environment Intensity is 1.12. Exposure Value 13.02  Shutter Speed 67.64, Film ISO 192. The figure is facing squarely Front. Once you get a light setup you like, remember to move your SETS not your figures! (We discussed this in my Art Studio thread two years ago.) 

The print on the render is the Dome Orientation X / Y / Z.  If you really want to see something neat, load a series into your graphic program in sequential order, then click through. You'll see the light shift and move around as it progresses. It also really shows you where the differences are as it treks across.

I did this first one extensively from 0 through the 300's for the X value. 

And mjc1016's list of free HDRI maps.

 

Post edited by Novica on

Comments

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to  0, 10, 25, 35, and 45.

     

    Harley.0.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 139K
    Harley.10.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.25.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.35.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.45.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 144K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90

     

    Harley.50.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.60.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.70.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.80.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.90.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to 100, 115, 125, 130, and 140. You'll see a BIG difference- the light really drops off between 125 and 130, so I did an increment of 5 on that one. By 140, you've really lost light.

    Harley.100.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 146K
    Harley.115.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 146K
    Harley.125.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 146K
    Harley.130.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 147K
    Harley.140.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 148K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to 150, 160, 170, 180, and 190.

    The 150.150.20 looks good for a fill light with pretty even lighting. (first render.) It has a faint glow on our right.

    Harley.150.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 147K
    Harley.160.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 146K
    Harley.170.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.180.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.190.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to 200, 210, 220, 230, and 240. 

    Harley.200.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Harley.210.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 144K
    Harley.220.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 144K
    Harley.230.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 144K
    Harley.240.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to 250, 260, 270, 280 and 290

    Harley.250.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 147K
    Harley.260.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 148K
    Harley.270.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 148K
    Harley.280.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 148K
    Harley.290.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 149K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to 300, 310, 320, 330, and 340.

     

    Harley.300.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 149K
    Harley.310.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 149K
    Harley.320.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 150K
    Harley.330.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 150K
    Harley.340.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 149K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    This changes X to 350 and 360. 

    Harley.350.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 147K
    Harley.360.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 147K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    My favorite two are 130 and 350. (The first numbers, for X.)  Followed by 150/160.  Any that you like?

    Post edited by Novica on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 4,582
    edited July 2016

    I'm always messing with the dome :) I have just been experimenting with Finite dome radius, scale multiplier and ground scale which I was about to post on the your other thread :)

    i did these a while ago using Dome Rotation. This image shows the HDRI and the second one is the dome rotated 90º with the ground showing as the backdrop, to me at the time it looked like a blocked road after a landslide :) I also had to move the Dome Origin forward in the Z direction, I think, to get the light to light the front of the figure more.

     

    road-block-i-002.jpg
    1280 x 960 - 819K
    road-block-i-003.jpg
    1280 x 960 - 910K
    Post edited by Fishtales on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392

    That's a neat effect actually! I read something about the scale multiplier but it's been awhile and I haven't played with it. 

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 6,831
    edited July 2016

    Yeah, the numbers you've given will work for that specific HDRI.  It can vary intensely depending on the HDRI, so you'll need to experiment with whatever HDRI you're using.  The tone mapping and other factors will also have an impact.

    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,426

    Will be watching with great interest!

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    Yeah, the numbers you've given will work for that specific HDRI.  It can vary intensely depending on the HDRI, so you'll need to experiment with whatever HDRI you're using.  The tone mapping and other factors will also have an impact.

    That's why I included them  wink  

    I wanted to do the default lighting first because newbies can play around with lighting without spending extra money, if they're experimenting to see if they like DAZ. It's also a good base for beginners to try adding other lights. I'll be testing other HDR's with them and keeping them together.

    Post edited by Novica on
  • dHandledHandle Posts: 617

    This should be very useful to help determine the orientation of the dome.  I think it was offered as a freebie back in April, so a lot of  people already have it.

    http://www.daz3d.com/light-probe-tool

     

     

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    Thanks dHandle, very useful!

    Since two that I liked the X settings on were 150 /160 (remember, this is the default Iray HDRI Environment Map) this next set will use X as 150 and change the Y.

    Z was left at 20. So we'll be doing  X 150 / Y changing this / Z 20. Anything up to 130 for Y was very bright, if you're looking for intense light, you might want to take a look at those. 

    I'll be skipping more, just showing you the trending of the light. This first set shows X 150, then Y is 130, 140,  170, 190  As you can see it darkens. Then showing it at 230. 

     

    HarleyA.150.130.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 152K
    HarleyA.150.140.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 151K
    HarleyA.150.170.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 147K
    HarleyA.150.190.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 146K
    HarleyA.150.230.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 147K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    Continuing with X staying at 150, changing the Y values, and Z staying at 20. 

    This group changes the Y to 260 (a jump of 30 from the last one),  then jumps 30 to 290.

    From 260 to 290 will be really nice for the side shadows on our left (as viewing it.) 

    Then you have 310 and 320.

    HarleyA.150.260.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 148K
    HarleyA.150.290.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 132K
    HarleyA.150.310.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 151K
    HarleyA.150.320.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 151K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    Continuing with X staying at 150, changing the Y values, and Z staying at 20. 

    This will be 340, 350, and 360.

    HarleyA.150.340.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 151K
    HarleyA.150.350.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 149K
    HarleyA.150.360.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 149K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    So it doesn't get buried (and confusing) I'll test some of the other lightsets with a few of the settings above that I liked. In Content Library, you'll find these next ones under Daz>Render Presets>Iray>Dumor3D HDR Sets>Apocalyptic Plant Outdoors Set 1.  (And there's Set 2.) 

    Using Natural 01a from the Set 1

    I left the settings alone that Dumor set- the Dome Scale Multiplier is 10.00 and a Finite Sphere is used.  I kept my settings so far as Exposure Value, Shutter Speed, ISO, etc. 

    I noticed Dumor put the Dome Rotation to 260. Let's test changing the X Orientation Value (like I did on the first set) and make that 130, 180, and 210. (testing the low 100's, upper 100's, low 200's.) I will do it like the default lighting with the Dome Rotation on 0- and then like Dumor has it with the Dome Rotation (not orientation) to 260.

    What I found: the 130 and 180 X Orientation (and numbers inbetween) went much darker if you change the Dome Rotation to 0.  The vendor's 260 Dome Rotation should be left alone. For the 210 X Orientation, the glow changed sides. Both are fine. 

    First is the vendor's Dome Rotation (it will say 260 up at the top. The Apoc1 means Plant Set 1.) The second is with the Dome Rotation at 0, like the Default Iray light setup that I tested. I like the 260 Dome Rotation (vendor's) better than 0.

    Next, changed the X Dome Orientation to 180. Again, Dumor's 260 Dome Rotation is first, then set it to 0, which is dark.

    harleyApoc1.130.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 146K
    harleyApoc1D0.130.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 145K
    harleyApoc1.180.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 146K
    harleyApoc1D0.180.150.20.jpg
    300 x 500 - 111K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

    Reserved for Apocalyptic.

    Gone for a few hours. Back later tonight, testing changing the Y.  If the 0 Dome Rotation doesn't look good, will only show the vendor's default 260 rotation.

    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392

    Reserved for Apocalyptic

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392

    Reserved for Apocalyptic

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 13,116
    dHandle said:

    This should be very useful to help determine the orientation of the dome.  I think it was offered as a freebie back in April, so a lot of  people already have it.

    http://www.daz3d.com/light-probe-tool

    I never could make any sense out of that tool. sad

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392
    edited July 2016

     

    barbult said:
    dHandle said:

    I never could make any sense out of that tool. sad

    So it's not just me? I tried it twice and didn't know what I was doing- but then that is my normal. But if YOU can't figure it out easily, you just made my day!

    Post edited by Novica on
  • dHandledHandle Posts: 617
    edited July 2016
    barbult said:
    dHandle said:

    This should be very useful to help determine the orientation of the dome.  I think it was offered as a freebie back in April, so a lot of  people already have it.

    http://www.daz3d.com/light-probe-tool

    I never could make any sense out of that tool. sad

     

    Novica said:

     

    barbult said:
    dHandle said:

    I never could make any sense out of that tool. sad

    So it's not just me? I tried it twice and didn't know what I was doing- but then that is my normal. But if YOU can't figure it out easily, you just made my day!

    I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by rotating the x orientation.  It's entirely possible that I haven't a clue what these things do, but I've always used the dome rotation to make it easy and predictable.

    I visualise the sun in the sky at...say...10:00 in the morning; well above the horizon and casting long shadows.  More importantly, where is the sun in the sky in relation to my subject?  Is it off to the left?  Off to the right?  behind?  in front?

    Well, the sun in the sky at 10:00 AM is in the east.  When I load an object in a scene, which way is east?  That would be really helpful to know, so I know which way the shadows will fall, how light will fall on faces, etc.  So..if I load up a scene and I know I want the bright spot (sun) behind the camera on the right sude, I can rotate the dome and put it there.  I certainly don't want to rotate the sun below the horizon!

    HDR maps have bright spots which serve as the main light source.  Every map is different, depending on where the sun was when the scene was photographed.  That Light Probe tool loads 4 spheres with different materials on them.  You need to put a plane primitive or something in the scene to allow shadows to fall on them.

    The 1st sphere is for the default environment dome, which is probably what most people use unless they really understand how the whole system works.  It shows you where the bright spot is.  The 2nd sphere is pure white, so you can gauge if you will have blown out spots.  The 3rd sphere is neutral grey (important in photography) to balance all other colors.  The 4th sphere is a mirror surface which will reflect any other environment map you load up beside the default one.  You can load them one at a time, or use the option to load all 4 at once.

    Then you can look in the mirror sphere for the reflection of the brightest spot, and you can check the fall of shadows.  There is a little X on the ground to help you be oriented if you need to check somewhere else other than the default load position (0,0,0).

    I included 2 sample pictures using the sun only option, and the default position of 6:00 PM, and the 2nd one at 10:00 AM.  You can see the reflection of the environment, including the sun, in the mirrored sphere.

    The same idea should work when using the dome only, or the dome and scene settings.  Use the dome rotation setting to move the bright spot around to where you want it.  Just a way to add more control, and do it faster!

    Hope I didn't misunderstand, and you already knew all this, and were testing something else.  Disregard if that is the case.

    10AM_Test.png
    900 x 506 - 627K
    6PM_Test.png
    900 x 506 - 625K
    Post edited by dHandle on
  • dHandledHandle Posts: 617

    I used a different HDR for this example to show the effect of X rotation of the dome.  I think what most people want to know is, "Where is the main bright spot (sometimes the sun) that is affecting shadows?"

    Changing the x axis rotates the HDR in strange ways, possibly putting the sun below the horizon, which isn't very helpful.  I think what you want to do is rotate the dome.  Those other orientations (x, y and z) might be helpful for space scenes where a 360 dome can be rotated all possible ways to give the best perspective.

    Alternately, you might be able to take an HDR with the sun low on the horizon, and put it high in the sky by using one of those orientations

    The easiest way to see what's going on is to set the Aux Viewport to Nvidia Iray, and go through your dome rotation angles or x,y,z orientations so you can see where the sun/bright spot is.  It updates very fast because it's so small.

    Notice there's not much going on with the shadows in the 3 images.

    0_X_Orientation.png
    900 x 506 - 536K
    20_X_Orientation.png
    900 x 506 - 529K
    40_X_Orientation.png
    900 x 506 - 488K
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392

    Not a problem, I like reading explanations- thanks! I'm just playing around, testing what default does. It's like taking apart something to see what makes it tick. I'm starting with the Orientation, then going to play with the Rotation. Normally for portraits I like the 230 to 260 Y Orientation with the default lights (nothing fancy, quickie renders just to show a character if it's on sale.) 

    I knew that east was bottom, west was top, south was left, and north was right if looking from the standard top down in the viewport. The orientations, from what I read, rotates the axis so I'm just fiddling and see if something unexpected happens. Like a happy accident, ya know? smiley  Thanks SO much for explaining that tool, I may give it a go later this week. I was only playing with this on the weekend and have to get back to my book (most of the time anyway, may still play a tiny bit.)  Thank you for the examples too, very thoughtful!

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 4,582
    edited July 2016

    Unfortunately the Dome Orientation only works if you can't see the dome HDRI in the viewport unless it is only moved in the Z direction and even then it will depend on the HDRI and how far it is moved. Also when DAZ Studio is first started and everything is at default the perspective view is facing South so the sun rises on the left and sets on the right.

    In this image I rotated the dome -30 in the Z direction to bring the sun down to the horizon. I have added the Light Probe and you can see that by doing that there is a black area behind the camera as seen in the mirror ball on the right.

    Click on image for full size.

    In this image I zeroed the Z Orientation and you can see in the mirror ball that the black area behind the camera has gone but so has the sun on the horizon. I've also noticed I would have to raise the sea a bit to hide the horizon where the HDRI meets the dome ground :)

    Click on image for full size.

    hdri-z-test-001.jpg
    1440 x 960 - 781K
    hdri-z-test-003.jpg
    1440 x 960 - 935K
    Post edited by Fishtales on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 21,392

    That is good to see, can really tell the difference in what it is doing!

Sign In or Register to comment.