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+1
I have been disappointed many times to discover I've bought something with a single material zone. (Most recently it was hair—a new release!. Scalp and hair on the same texture image. I had another hair by that vendor on my wishlist, and removed it.)
So far no one has been arguing against "clay" renders with outfit pieces separate and the matzones tinted (when realistic - you get a pass on your car, Matty). It's a good idea, yes I think it helps sell products, that's why I always do it. Separate outfit pieces are usually (supposed to be) itemized in the feature list but people rarely read those, and it doesn't tell you things like if trousers under boots cut off at the top of them or go down to the ankles.
What most of the PAs are having issue with is asking for character promos to be rendered in the default Iray lighting.. because it sucks, honestly. If you want to see the skin details there are much better lighting situations for that, like Male-M3dia described.. pure white (colorless) even lighting that doesn't blow out highlights and illuminates the whole character.
I use Lt Probe 08 from FWSA Soft Light Probes for most things.. unless it's something like glass that needs a more obvious surrounding reflection. It's fairly bright, colorless, pretty even, gives good specular response (not too strong but not matte either), and nice shadows that are there but not overpowering. It was a Cristmas freebie so check your item list. http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/23751/start
I'm not going to push for the texture promo idea further because I know neither PAs or DAZ guys will go for it. It won't change my personal opinion of texture promos, but DAZ offers a nice return policy if we feel the product wasn't what we expected anyway.
Thanks for considering the material zone renders, I think we can all agree that those will be beneficial.
Another example, this one of the Chevaleresse Armor for Rune 7. Man this thing has a lot of material zones (but still only took me 15 minutes to make).
This information makes me vastly more likely to buy the product, having been disappointed with many older products in this regard.
But showing it is only going to sway a small amount of people. If you're thinking of possibly retexturing a item manually maybe it has value, but most don't, even with shaders. Most are swayed with examples of how it can be used in a scene, not the technical, so maybe that's why if they aren't presented in the best light, they aren't included in the group of promos.
Now we're going to disagree on this too? :|
It makes a huge difference for those of us - which I believe are a lot of us - who 'kitbash'; combining elements from different sets or hiding material zones of clothing to create original looks. There's an outfit in the $8 sale right now that I am not buying because I don't know if certain elements of it can be hidden.
Everyone doesn't kitbash. Let's not generalize that everyone does it, like everyone will throw a diferent shader on an outfit. And even then, most people wouldn't know to mix different outfits unless they are shown to them via promos as well. And even then, sometimes kitbashing can be as easy as making a transmap to hide an element they don't want visible.
Almost every serious Studio user mixes pieces from different sets to make their images. Making transmaps is much harder than simply adjusting surface settings. Arguing that people don't know how to mix outfits is simply ridiculous.
I should think DAZ and PAs both would be willing to include renders showing the material zones if it meant more sales. I don't understand why a specific type of promo image should be left off because it only appeals to a subset of the customer base. The same could be said for virtually every product DAZ sells. If I were a vendor and an extra 15 minutes doing a material zones render would net me a 1-5% increase in sales, I wouldn't hesitate to do it. It's not like the product is limited to six promo images... Just sayin'...
10 or it gets tricky as far as I know.
Please read the post. SnowSultan did not say everyone does it. "A lot of us" isn't everyone. You can't take them to task for generalizing when that's exactly what you did in your post, I found that ironic! ("But showing it is only going to sway a small amount of people.")
We are reminding everyone that comments should address the topic and not individual posters. Please keep this thread civil.
I highly doubt even a complete newb needs a promo to help them realize they can mix separate outfit pieces - that almost sounds condescending (however unintentional). PA's wouldn't still be making shaders for people to customize their clothes/props with if there wasn't a consumer base to sell to that wanted customization options beyond just buying additional texture sets. I know people approach this hobby differently, but when I create a character or the world they inhabit, I want to bring my vision to life using the products as a starting point. That means either texture work or shaders.
I skip buying items all the time because I can't tell if the pants are actually pants or cutoff where the boots end (thus rendering them useless if you don't want capris) or what sort of material zones an item comes with. These are VERY important to me for my purchases.
I'm just going to step in and say there is a huge market for Shader/Shader presets (I know, they're my best and most consistant back catalog sales). People aren't just making them because they're cool. Lots of people buy them and lot of people use them.
I think this is one of those subjects that it will always be a stalemate of what people think would sell versus vendors and marketing using research in to see what sells. If it did sell more, it would be part of the promos. After all these years, it's really that simple. There's another item on sale today that I'm willing to bet everyone will be buying, but it has no such promo of material zones, because it's not needed to sell the item.
Also shaders do sell, but it's not like the gallery is filled with people reshading items.
Indeed; DAZ3D has clearly defined image guidelines for what they want for various types of items that are offered in the store. Other store sites likely have similar guidelines, and I have yet to see all that many vendors using material zone images on them. Could it improve sales on products? Maybe, but the percentage may not make a significant impact over either short term.or long term sales.
Gotta agree with you on the transmap thing. Not every one has a handle on how to do this. Material zones take that guess work out of it! Now, not every piece of clothing is going to have the exact material zone but perhaps something close. Like say a shirt. I'd do the collar of the shirt as it's own Mat zone so turn it off to turn the shirt into a nehru collared look.
Well it took me all of three days as a new user to realize I could kit bash and maybe another two days to understand what being able to buy shaders and texture packs meant. Maybe I'm not normal but for me, its far more cost effective to be able to do this kind of stuff so it remains one of the most important things that I look for when purchasing. Maybe the thousands of dollars I have already spent here don't count for much in the overall scheme of things but I don't mind hanging on to a bit more of my money if the information I need isn't there.
First, (and meant completely in good fun,) you'd lose that bet... I didn't buy it. Whatever "it" was, as I didn't buy anything that day.
Second, while I cannot speak for anyone else, I haven't done a single "serious" render in months, (maybe longer,) that didn't use shaders somewhere. Some of the time it's obvious, other times it's subtle. But it's there.
Maybe it's only me, but the flashy renders that are produced are wasted, at least on me; show me one or two. I mostly want to know about the product, so material zones, close ups on textures, grey-scale or clay. screenshots of morhps, etc.
I'm going to give an example: http://www.daz3d.com/dt-vivi-for-genesis-3-female-s - the only reason is its the first product in the list.
Digital Touche's characters and promos are excellent, but there are eight images there - six of them are superfluous and don't add anything to the others.
It's almost as though I have to buy it to see if it suites my needs - no thanks.
Yeah I see what you mean Nicstt. The most important promos there are the two that show the eye and lip options. The legs actually seem quite detailed on that texture, but there are no close-ups of them to confirm this. I also do not want to have to buy something just to see if it will work for me, not that DAZ's return policy isn't excellent, but I do not like returning items because I feel guilty and sorry for the PA.
I'd take LY Gracie HD over Vivi, to be honest; and I did buy VYK Avery yesterday because it had a better selection of good promo images than what Vivi has.
Actually, looking at the placement on the what's selling, I would win. This is one of those things where some think that just because they aren't buying it, it's not selling when the opposite is true. Also seeing the other outfit that on the hot chart right now, that doesn't have material zones either. Like I said, although it would be useful for some, it simply isn't something alone that would sell the product, so it's not required in promos. It will continue to be a stalemate between what people think would sell versus what actually does when research is done.
How do you know what DAZ's sales figures are on an item that isn't your own? And obviously these other items do not have material zone previews because hardly any do - that was the entire point of my starting this conversation.
I actually can't believe that you're arguing with me over the addition of ONE promo pic that I can make in 15 MINUTES that could improve sales. Even if it didn't - and I am 99% sure that it would (assuming the whole item isn't one material zone) - what harm what would be done?
Again, I dont see an issue with those but its up to the PA. It can be helpful for those of us who find multiple zones a good selling point. I skipped it on the car because of how many surfaces there are.
I think he's going by personal experience with his own products on the sales thing. And to be honest I'd rather show clothing items fitted to a number of different figures and put the information about material zones for them in the product description for stuff that I sell here. That accomplishes two things; I'm providing desired information for those that want to know about the material zones and I'm providing promotional images that will most likely be acceptable to DAZ's review staff.
I also find this pointless. Why? The blurb staes they fit, then I will take your word on it.
What I wonder is, are promo images meant to sell the product to Daz, or to customers?
(I read somewhere that the rendered images included in a submission to Daz are what gets it accepted.)
I can see your point as it would probably be impractical to take renders when a model contains an abundance of shader zones, but even a text description of how many shader zones exist and maybe even where on the item would be very welcome from my customer perspective. Especially on clothing items.