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I understand where Khory and Lyoness are coming from, but my reason for wanting those sorts of promo images isn't to show the image in a bad light. It's to show what the texture will look like on every single customer's machine, regardless of their skill or what additional content they own. The promo images for many textures are very well done, but they do not show the texture off all that well. In my promos, you can see hand and foot detail, spots on the back, and some of the details of the face as well. You cannot see any of those in the official promo images.
Images like those are lovely for showing the product "in use", but they should be complemented by raw images showing exactly what the customer will get. Most PAs will probably not agree with that, but it's what I believe as a former PA and a customer.
Me too! I'm another person who really appreciates the PA's who provide this type of promo pic (Fisty & Darc being the obvious good example) - I've bought a few items where I've originally thought "hmm, not sure" but then seen the material zones and realised how flexible and therefore useful they would be.
You're right, I dont. The point of promos is to show off the product at its best. Anything that takes away from that can reduce sales. I have never bought anything that looks bad to me.
I can see that the default HDRI might be unflatttering, but if there were an agreed default lighting set, poses and cameras to show off skin textures in specific uniform light, that could indeed be a helpful addition.
You may not buy anything that you think looks bad, but when I see something that looks amazing, I always doubt that it will look that good for me because I know you guys use very careful lighting and posing to show off the best features of the texture. What I'm asking for is both the promotional pretty images and the "here is what it will look like FOR YOU when you first load it" images. Redz' suggestion of a default light, camera, and poses is pretty much what I'm saying we should do.
edit: and to be honest, the default HDRI isn't bad at all. Make sure it's set to a strength of 1, maybe lower the exposure value to 12.5 depending on the texture, and rotate the environment about 44 degrees and you'll get a decent portrait (Rune 7 shown)
Yes vote for me as well!!! They were decfiding factors in some of my purchases.
Right. The example promos are actually too busy and dull. They would be immediately tossed and you'll be creating a different set of promos.
Actually for the texture shots I did, I tossed the default HDRI because it's not an even light and the quality of it is really bad. I found a HDRI of a scan room (which is about $15 a piece) that gives an even fill light then I do a plain 3 point light to even it out. The thing with promos is that you have to balance out making sure the basics are covered while they are presented in a good light. There is definitely a difference in quality depending on the HDRI you use. The default should be only used for quick and dirty renders, not promos.
We might as well not argue further because PAs don't seem to agree with me much these days. My concern as a customer is not whether your promos look good, it's whether they show off the product accurately and allow people to make an educated decision on whether it would be something they would be interested in. You're right, DAZ would not approve my promos; it doesn't mean that they don't more accurately show what the texture looks like.
Forget the textures then, I just hope some of you will at least consider the material zone promo image idea. As you've seen here, many people do appear to think it's a good idea and might actually help boost sales. Thanks for your time.
Couldn't agree more!!! I take a chance every time I buy a character at daz simply because I can't see all of the product. there are vendors that even still sell at Rendo that are too lazy to include nude promos because they are so used to how it is here, sad, really sad.
I could care less about art promos, I just want to see the product in most cases.
My take on things as a customer has always been if the content creator can not make it look good then I won't be able to. And to be really blunt, the character examples you posted look flat and lifeless as far as the skin goes. If a creator gives me flat and lifeless as part of a best effort then there is no way on earth I will buy that product.
Well, I usually stay away from discussions like these, since they do have a tendency to go pear-shaped and degenerate into fruitless and often heated debates rather quickly. Nevertheless, I am compelled to dive in, for better or worse. Let me begin by saying that I understand the point made by the PAs about wanting to show their products in the best possible light. Of course you do. That's just good marketing. But here is the problem as I see it: marketing is not necessarily about information, it is about promotion (that's why they call them promos). The suggestion that Snowsultan has made is not about marketing as it is commonly practiced these days or promotion, but about information. Information that can be used by prospective purchasers to make informed decisions. If vendors feel that providing that information will negatively affect sales, what are they really telling us, whether intentionally or not? If I were considering purchasing a new PC and the vendor showed me a bunch of wonderful promo images of the outside of the case, but failed to provide the necessary (for me) technical details of what was actually inside, I wouldn't buy it no matter how good it looked. Why? Because I'm not just buying it to look at it, I'm buying it to use it, and those technical details are going to determine its utility. Not a perfect analogy, perhaps, since most analogies are not, but I believe you get my point.
So, not wishing to just post a gripe, here is a possible solution. If PAs feel that the loss of one glitzy promo image due to the addition of one relatively pedestrian informational image will truly detract from sales of their products, then provide the information elsewhere. I'm certain that the PAs and DAZ could provide a link to an image somewhere on all that unused white space on the product page that would open the type of image that Snowsultan is referring to for those that are interested. If PAs feel compelled to jazz those up a bit for marketing purposes, feel free, as long as that does not compromise the intended purpose of providing information - form follows function.
Lastly, I'm not trying to "win" a debate here, nor trying to assert "I'm right and you're wrong". Some may see some merit in what I am saying, others not. I'm okay with that either way.
PS: Snowsultan shouldn't have to do this kind of thing for you guys, but deserves a great deal of credit when he (she?) does. (thanks again, BTW!)
Thing is not all suggestions sell products no matter the intention. Like I said, doing promos is a balance between covering the bases, and making them good enough so people put down their money to buy it. People won't buy promos consisting of many dull, lifeless promos; as Khory said, if we can't make it look good, then they will think they can't either. And the promos we do have to get through the review team to get accepted, so even if we do them, they still may not make it to the product page and end up on the cutting room floor. Most of the PAs strive to have a balance while setting up products that are displayed to sell. That's what any good business does. If customers have any additional questions, this is what the true purpose of the forum is: to ask questions about products and get more information. This forum is used in conjunction with the store so that customers can ask questions regarding products and tips on how to use it. So it's probably better to utilize the forums in this manner to get additional information about products rather than making it a platform to tell PAs what you feel they should be doing when it may not be a good suggestion at all. You'll get more PA coming to engage you; as it stands now, these threads are why a lot of PAs don't come into the forums.
I think the issue here is that not all character vendors see the skin textures themselves as a separate product from the character, so they aren't providing images that showcase the skins as well as the character. It may also be why vendors like 3D Universe don't provide more than one or two color options for hairs included with the character. I know this is probably how the twins I'm working on will be, though I do plan an additional set with other textures that will be more universally useful.
Their tone was extremely civil and as you said, it was a suggestion.
Nope, you're one of my favourite PAs. :)
Currently considering Gracie; is the HD morph seperate?
http://www.daz3d.com/ly-gracie-hd
... And that character's promos are a great example of showing what's possible, and what we're getting.
Not always, and not after the 3rd or 4th time trying to explain why things are done way they are. The big thing customers should remember when PAs make promos is that they don't know the effort it takes to do them and get the product accepted. Sometimes, they'll make promos and they'll immediately get accepted, sometimes it may take days to revise promos to get to that point, or they get flat out rejected. What they will tell you that the promos here will not make the promos sell any better much less get accepted. Sometimes the promos you see are only part of what got accepted to be put on the store page. That's why I say it's better to ask for additional information regarding products using the forum rather than make suggestions on how PAs should do things, because they may have simply already done it and it got rejected.
Where else are customers able to engage PAs if not the forums? I no longer have access to the places where I could talk directly with PAs, so I had to post here. It was also just a suggestion, and I am willing to make some of the material promos for PAs that may want it (or if I already own the product).
Forget about my texture suggestion and let's get back to the material one. I hope that more vendors would consider doing that, as it doesn't detract from the imagery of the product at all.
Well I know in the past some have done it, but haven't done much since because that's one of the types of promos that most often end up on the cutting room floor when it hits the review team. That's what I've said in the previous posts. Most PAs concentrate on what they know the review team is looking for to accept a product into the store, and not on items that server more as an "extra info render, but won't sell the item"-type of render. So it's probably better to ask for additional information rather than think PAs don't do this on purpose. The review, art and marketing teams have the ultimate say in what goes on the product page.
I honestly dont see an issue with that one as its been done in the past but its going to come down to a PAs preference to do them. You'll forgive me if I dont provide one for the new car and its 275 surfaces
And that car in your signature banner is exquisite!
for my characters, you can load in an HD character or a base character.... but I don't use a seperate HD button.
TY
To the OP, I think those promos are useful. maybe not as main promos, but useful to include. I am talking about the first post.
I approve it,
let's start the production in mass
Thanks Zev, yeah obviously they would be secondary promos just to give a little additional information. It does seem to make a difference with many people though, and would likely only benefit PAs to better show what their products are capable of.
There's a popular PA who used to give his swords one material zone, making them useless for Iray or to anyone who wanted to retexture the blade. I don't know if someone brought it up or if he just decided on his own to separate it into multiple zones, but now he does and I'm much less apprehensive to buy anything from him. Now that we can easily apply Iray presets for metal and cloth to separate material zones, having objects with many of them - and while at times, it can be inconvenient - generally adds to the flexibility and worth of the product.
I'm a material zone freak when making my own products. It's just one of those things I really like putting into the product! Partially because of the ease of use with shaders VS texture sets, allot of folks like using shaders. My first product for Dawn at the Hive has promos that shoes the pants material zones. If this were a standard to show not just untextured promos but material zones too it certainly would help make up my mind about purchases.
Frankly, I find that most of the product promos go to some length to show available textures and areas, be they figures, outfits, or props. The orignal point about material zones is well taken, those are rarely shown.
Personally, I view the "art" promos as inspiration. I have a large folder on the computer called Inspriration for that reason. Filled, with great poses, great lighting, great effects, etc.
That's just it though. In many cases showing the material zones types of renders WILL help sell the item. I look for those types of promo images and it most certainly does influence my choice to buy or not.
Its extremely important to me to be able to tell what the material zones are and what is attached to what. In most cases I might add, I wouldn't expect something that has 275 separate material zones to be shown like that (but a mention that it has lots of separate material zones wouldn't hurt) but for things like clothing (especially) and smaller props and buildings, it can most certainly sway me to buy if I am on the fence about something.
I would expect those to be the last promo in the set to be honest. Absolutely does not need to be up front and center just there somewhere would be awesome. and I do hope that the review team sees this and really takes it into consideration.