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Another cool toy with only Iray settings :(
Sci-Fi Containment Unit
...seeing more and more of this this is making me rethink Daz's position on 3DL. I have tonnes of different light sets, texture/surface utilities and content for 3DL which is a fairly hefty investement. Would be a real pity if they abandodned it and only went with Iray.
One thing I like about 3DL is I can create a number of different render styles that Iray is incapable of without resorting to postwork.
I get that Iray looks great for some renders. But I'm with you. I don't want my renders to look the same all of the time. I have been doing more and more shopping elsewhere, as a result.
Daz has updated 3dl and re-upped for several years on the license so your concerns should not be with Daz. They have clearly taken steps to keep it as part of the program. Daz's position on 3DL has not changed at all since Iray was introduced. Products they sell still have the 3DL support. If your seeing fewer products with 3DL support from PAs that is because they also have preferences in the render engine they use and some of them simply prefer not to work with 3DL at this time.
'Some' has turned to 'most'. And the post is directed at vendors, not Daz, but the vendors' 'preference' is pushing me and others to other stores. You'd think the vendors and Daz, both, would want MORE people to buy their wares. It is a business, after all.
One little thing I'd like to see is, when both 3Delight and Iray are included, how about putting 3D or IR on the icons so you can tell which one is which? I have a few things where both are included, but there's no way to know which one is which as the thumbnails are exactly alike.
...so to use those products with 3DL, it sounds as if you need to convert/adjust shaders and textures which wasn't the case before. Iray has the catchall "Uber Iray" shader which makes it easy to go from 3DL to Iray. Does the new update (4.9.2) offer the same solution to bulk convert from Iray to 3DL or does it all have to be done manually channel by channel or though the Shader Mixer?
I've seen what it's for in the pop up box that displays the file location when you mouse over the icon. Don't know if that's the case for everything, but it has been with some of the recent products I've used in DAZ Studio 4.9
Yeah, I had hoped for that, but the popup box for the things I've checked only show the path and nothing tells me which one it's for. What I can't figure out are the items that have THREE icons all the same!?!
WillowRaven, I fully agree. I was a bit angry when I saw that almost all new releases today were Iray only. But Daz and the vendors are losing money with this policy, not me.
The Iray shader/materials prsets should have an MDL tag.
THey must not be losing that much money for it to matter.
I like both Iray and 3delight. I don't think DAZ really touches on what 3delight can really do- We need some updated shaders for the figures for them to be as optimized as they can get. Better base shaders for characters would make 3delight really pop.
If they were only in it for the money, they probably would release things they weren't happy with just to please the customers that want a 3Delight version of a product. That they are risking upsetting some customers by releasing Iray only content tells me they care about providing a quality product for those that want it.
To answer your question from December LOL, my Art Studio thread now has this rendered in both 3DL and Iray. (You'll have to surf back through and find it, it is the current thread, Thread 7. I believe RGcincy was the artist who did it. (Various folks help showcase the products) I liked the look of both Iray and 3DL. The grass was the main thing, if I recall, that looked different, but both looked fine.
...so 3DL users have to effectively "pound sand". Apologies but that is a bad approach to customer service. I use both render engines depending on the style of output I want. 3DL is a high quality render engine, if it wasn't, Pixar would not use it's parent, Renderman. Not everyone wants or cares to do to do photoreal rendering.
Some vendor who would like to make a lot of money needs to make a convertor that turns IRAY shaders/materials into useable shaders/materials for 3Delight users.
Because my buying here has completely dumped since everything has gone IRAY. IRAY is great if you make portraits and own a badass graphics card and have a lot of time on your hands. It's a waste of time for the rest of us.
As a PA, my position is simple. I'd like as many people as possible to be able to use my products, but at the same time, I want my promos to look good. My solution is to offer both Iray and 3DL versions of products, but to (mostly) render my promos in Iray. With packs of props, it's not quite so important to see a 3DL render, and I feel that the customers who want the 3DL version can use their common sense and download it without wondering if they're buying a pig in a poke.
I understand that this thread may be mainly directed at other types of products, but I believe that most PAs take the same approach as me. We all want our products to look great in the promos, and Iray is usually the best option for that. DAZ absolutely do NOT push PAs to use Iray. It just looks more realistic in many ways, and that's the 'Holy Grail' of 3d.
I don't want 3DL users to flame me. I understand perfectly the reasons for using 3Delight, and you can get some amazing renders from it. But remember that time is money to PAs, and they'll always take the best, quickest, and most efficient option available.
mac
I don't think this is about the promos. More and more products come out, saying they only have iray materials.
I bought a few of them in the past, and it's not as simple to convert them to 3delight, as I would like. :) So I now tend to stay away from products that only have iray materials.
I'm not against iray in any way, but I mainly use 3delight, that look suits my needs better. If I can't do a reasonable-looking render in 3delight with an item, then that item is not really of use to me personally.
Apple has all but dropped Nvdia from their current lineup of iMacs, Laptops and Mini's. Mac Pros have not been updated with any new HW options in over 3 years. While older macs still have some Nvidia options the newer ones wont and support from Apple wont be forthcoming. For those who may not know Apple develops the bulk of their GPU drivers themselves (Mac Pro's over 7 years old are allowed some flexibility), the card/chipset developers do not offer drivers for Mac, only Window sand Unix. In the event a release knowingly distributes a flawed set of drivers Apple does not offer drivers for download, they are bundled in OS X itterations if they are deemed necessary by the devloeprs Apple has acknowledged this once in 10 years as far as I can tell.
while many DS users are Nvidia owners on their PC's some of us also have Macs as production systems, if the trend continues fewer of the mac demographic will not be able to take the GPU selling point of Iray and use it. Additionally while 3rd party GPU PSU's are available for mac they are incredibly expensive and more importantly not supported by Apple so a system running 10.11.5 now with a GPU PSU could have all compatibility developmentally disabled through an framework change or securities patch which would allow no recourse from Apple to work with a 3rd party developer to circumvent it.
As a mac user of over 10 years, I can say I agree totally...except, that Apple has convinced me that they don't want me as a user and my retina iMac will be my last Mac purchase unless they make serious changes before it's time to retire it. Honestly, my first reaction was that DAZ was ignoring us mac usersw which made me very angry, but, now I realize that it's just that Apple has very little interest in people who want computing power. Even their "pro" has minimal expandability without external devices, which is inherently expensive, messy and...well...just silly. Who cares about the beauty of your product if no one can see it for all of the external junk they need just to get adequate diskspace, backup, etc.
So, really, if this hobby is important to you, then it's probably time to swallow the pill and switch back to MS, as apalling as that may be:( I now have a very nice PC that I use via VNC and I hate having to actually use the regular part of the computer, and not just because it's foreign to me. It's clunky, and things seem unnecessarily tedious to use...and the command line interface is abysmal. But, it does what I need better than my main, and much more expensive computer...mac.
Yes, the post is primarily a frustration about more and more new products that I'd be buying if they also had 3DL materials at least listed as an option. I haven't made the switch to Iray because it doesn't have the look I need. Not because my Alienware can't handle it.
I'm not arguing that 3Delight isn't a good render engine; I've used it since I started working with 3D rendering and I've done some darn nice renders with it. And I'm not into photorealistic renders as such, though many of mine done in Iray could easily pass for photos. What I like about Iray is that it makes believable images much more easily than 3Delight. I'm getting ready to set up a render using the BEO2k10; I did one a number of years back that was good for its time, but I'm sure I can improve the scene in Iray and make the BEO seem even more believable than my first version was.
What bugs me most about Iray is the graininess I see - even in promo images. This is a huge turn off for me, and blows the whole photoreal effect. It looks like an old photograph taken with film speed that was the wrong kind for the lighting.
3Delight has always been crisp for me and the only time I have had to make adjustments is when I use depth of field.
Sometimes the photoreal effect has to do with the quality of materials in the figures. One G2M will look photoreal, but another won't even in the same lighting. I've done photoreal portraits in 3DL with Genesis 1 as well.
People get impatient. :)
I found, though, that a really realistic 3DL image takes about as long as a similar Iray image, and sometimes the Iray image is actually faster. That said, if you know what to do and you don't need complete realism, you CAN reduce render times in 3DL and get crisp, nice images.
The two problems people run into with Iray: if you want a high quality image, you probably want to up Render Quality to 5+ and completion to 99%. You also probably want to drop pixel blur or render a larger image and shrink later... but that can slow things down.
I am perfectly okay with this as long as somewhere in the description is says it has has the option for both although it would be nice to have one promo image in 3Delight. I use both render engines so having both available is a definite selling point for me.
That's sort of my point. More and more products are not offering both in the description, either. So I'm assuming they are not supported for both.
Which setting is "Pixel Blur"? Is that the Pixel Filter Radius, or something else?
Is it safe to assume this amazing structure is also Iray-only?
Chateau Blanche