Loading the Highlands set makes daz crash-problem solved-cannot use filament view

VicSVicS Posts: 805
edited May 26 in Daz Studio Discussion

Loading the Highlands set makes daz crash

Soemtimes it craashed right off the bat sometimes it lets me do a few thigs first

Is anyone else having this problem, if so i8s there any way to make it run load and work correctly?

thanks

https://www.daz3d.com/highlands

Post edited by VicS on

Comments

  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 42

    Generally a crash in Studio after loading content is not a problem with the asset itself; it's the PC running out of system memory. Studio does not happily fall back to virtual memory and 99% of the time will just unceremoniously dump you to the desktop.

    I've just loaded Highlands up and it's not a particular system hog (it's very lean on VRAM using only ~1GB for a large landscape asset) but the system memory useage spiked at around 7 - 8GB to prepare it. If you have 16GB of sytem memory or more it shouldn't be an issue unless you have a ton of other things open, but if you only have 8GB of memory then that might be the issue.

    I'm assuming you're using Windows of one variety or another and, if so, open up your task manager and watch the memory usage as you load it. If it hits 99% that could be the problem.

    If that's not the issue, all I can tell you is that I bought Highlands when it came out and it's never been problematic. The background mountains are one of the items I consistently use and the set itself has worked flawlessly.

  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

     I have at least 16 ram next time I try Ill go it with not so much other stuff opened, whatever happens thanks a lot for writing this because the person who helps me with hardware is coming over today and I can show him what you wrote,

    I agree this set is very good, aside from his other mountain set I havent seen anything like it yet on the site for sale, also the ground renders nicely, havent had a chance to see the mountains rendered yet in preview but I know they will look good-

    the image is from another file that I just put into iray preview, the high load happens all the time I do believe but it never crashes, it goers past 99% also, is this a problem? if yes can you suggest how to make it run easier, I do have some pretty good parts in here, 12 core with a 3600 series nvdia card, it is windows

    I will load hih=ghlands again and see how high it gets, myabe when it hits 100% it will cause daz to crash at that point

    thanks for the help

     

  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

    I tried again making sure I was not in iray preview, in a new file even before anything could be seen loaded daz crashed right off,

     I will send the error log to support but put please have a look if it isnt too hard to decifer 

    thanks

    2022-05-17_050455.png
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    zip
    zip
    DAZStudio_error_report_220517-051227.zip
    192K
  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 42
    edited May 17

    I've had a look at the crash dump and it does appear to relate to virtual memory. I notice you've got Live open (this is not a great idea as Live will happily use all of your CPU cores for sample loading and playback!) and a huge number of browser processes as well, but your PC appears to be coping fine with it.

    If your memory useage hits 99% that's generally an indication that Windows will start paging out your system RAM onto your hard drive (in the good old days this was called 'page faulting') and start swapping between the two as necessary. Studio appears to hate this and it's the cause of every single crash I've ever had with it. 16GB should be just enough but it's generally recommended to have 2 to 3 times your video card's VRAM as system memory - 24GB to 36GB with 32GB being the obvious choice here.

    Unfortunately there are so many things it could possibly be but I would start with a basic step: Uninstall Highlands and re-download it. This probably won't cure it but it does eliminate corrupted files as a possibility. My second task would be to run a memory check utility and then a disk checker to confirm no hardware issues exist, and then have a look at the size of the virtual memory file in Windows.

    I don't have a magic wand fix for this sadly and I can't replicate your problem at all on my machine which is almost identical to yours, just with double the RAM.

     

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    Post edited by TimberWolf on
  • Catherine3678abCatherine3678ab Posts: 5,921

    As I've noticed at times [when I looked] D/S would be using 98% of the computer, I would suggest having everything closed except the necessities [such as AV] when using D/S.

  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

    Thank you very much Ill keep it posted if it gets figured out - also keeping things closed as much as I can, right now Ill reinstall Highlands

  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 42

    Having had this issue myself with other sets in the past I can almost guarantee if you put another 16GB in that machine your problems will go away. The word 'almost' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there and I can't be 100% sure so I wouldn't advise you to start throwing money at the problem until you've exhausted all other possibilities. 16GB should work but there's no way to know what else is loading in the background on startup on your PC, using memory resources. All we can offer is a best guess, but if I were a betting person, I'd put money on the memory being insufficient.

  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

    I dont know if this matters but here is another report, with all other things closed and most window browsers, i reinstalled the DIM, daz was in filament view while highland loaded

    zip
    zip
    DAZStudio_error_report_220517-070304.zip
    185K
  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 42

    It's exactly the same cause. Virtual memory issue with the unhelpful exception error 0xC0000005 which covers everything from 'virus' to 'hardware failure' and the entire gamut inbetween.

    You're not going to like my other suggestion: Wipe your boot disk, reinstall Windows and Daz only and then test from there before installing anything else. This is what I would do at this point but it's an not an insignificant amount of work when getting your PC back to where it is now. I have nothing else I'm afraid. I'm sure you're running out of system RAM but I can't conclusively prove it and there's not enough information about your PC to really delve into it.

  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

    Ok thanks TimberWolf moire info to show someone who helps me wit hthe computer

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 10,556
    edited May 18

    I'm also having DAZ Studio (4.20) crash when trying to use Highlands. Oddly it seems to occur when I try to work in Filament or texture shaded mode rather than in Iray. And I have 32 gb of system RAM, so I'm dubious that memory is the problem.

    I'm also having similar problems trying to work with Plains and Mountains when trying to get closer to the mountains

    Post edited by Charlie Judge on
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 4,733

    From your second Zip...

    Are you using a Wacom tablet, have you tried disconnecting it?

    In relation to Filament, there is mention of "std::vector<unsigned char,std::allocator<unsigned char> >::_Xlength" - Doesn't sound good, therefore I would not use Filament preview.

  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

    Thanks for checking that zip so closely,

    got excited, I unplugged the wacom and in iray preview highland crashed daz right off the bat oh well , I'm not losing hope

     

    Charlie did you use highlnds in the previous daz version?

    has it always made daz 4.20 crash ever since or before it was working at one point?

  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 42

    It's two different issues. Some of the big sets have never worked with Filament from the outset. We've got 4.15, 4.16 and 4.20 on different machines here; Highlands has never worked with Filament on any of those versions, and neither have many other products.

    An insta-crash to desktop without any notification from Studio (unlike the Filament crash) is, in my experience, almost always related to Studio's intolerance of virtual memory paging. That said, I could be wrong of course but I think this is conflating two entirely separate problems.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 4,733

    Maybe the log has some useful information (Help->Troubleshooting->View Log File)

  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 10,556

    VicS said:

    Thanks for checking that zip so closely,

    got excited, I unplugged the wacom and in iray preview highland crashed daz right off the bat oh well , I'm not losing hope

     

    Charlie did you use highlnds in the previous daz version?

    has it always made daz 4.20 crash ever since or before it was working at one point?

    TimberWolf may be correct and there are two different issues. For me Highlands is still working in DS 4.20 as long as I remain in iRay mode . 

  • TimberWolfTimberWolf Posts: 42

    Vic, just for your info, this is from our prototyping PC which has a gently ageing i4770K (ancient compared to your CPU), an elderly GTX 1050 on monitor duty and an RTX 3060 for rendering with 24Gb (yup, odd!) of system RAM. Both cards are using Nvidia's 511.65 studio drivers, rather than the gaming ones. It is running the Public Build (essentially the Beta) of Studio 4.20, not the General Release. This is the closest I can get to your PC. Highlands loads fine in both preview and render mode using 6GB of system RAM once it's settled down. It crashes Studio instantly in Filament with an unsigned variable error. This is probably correctable by directly editing the .duf file but... life is too short. It doesn't work in Filament.

    I think you're running out of system RAM due to the way you use your PC and the other software you've installed. You appear to be doing what we do with 4 PCs on just your one! You could prove/disprove this one way or the other by wiping your boot drive and starting again and just installing Studio before any of your DAWs et.al.  but it's a huge amount of work which may amount to nothing. Hard to recommend, but it depends how much you want to be able to use Highlands or sets that impose a similar load on your PC. Have you run any of the diagnostics I suggested earlier? I think they, too, will prove nothing is wrong with your system but it's worth doing to eliminate a potential cause.

    I genuinely have nothing left to offer and because there's nothing wrong with the product, you won't get much joy from Support I suspect. Over to you...

    highlands mem useage.png
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  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

    I had the idea to load it into wire frame for you I was going to make invisible the foreground and only use the mountains and do a reverse for when I want to use the foreground with no mountains but even then wire frame it immediately crashed daz. I will try to look in the log file can someone please tell me where to find the log file

    thank you

  • VicSVicS Posts: 805

    I wrote to Aako the maker of Highlands, he tested it, turns out filament is what was making daz crash-

    he  wrote me to put both viewports into texture shaded and there shouldnt be a crash, there was not, I then put it into iray preview and no crash,

    Aako also wrote me this-

    With my tests I could see that "FIlament (PBR)" does not support Instances well and if their total number exceeds a certain threshold, it crashes Daz Studio. These quick tests showed me that the maximum threshold tolerated by Filament is around 5000 instances (Not sure of the exact number). My Highlands product has over 12,000 instances, so way beyond the filament tolerance. Instances are actually very lightweight geometry clones (not real geometry) that help create a huge amount of props while keeping scene management easy and light on hardware. In Highlands, I used instances to multiply the clumps of grass while keeping the scene light.

     

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