Daz Vendors - listen closely

2

Comments

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 26,378
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Taozen said:
    Me thinks all stores should drop all sales completely and lower the prices in general, instead.

    Google what happened when the iconic big US department store chain "J. C. Penney" (now known as JCP) tried that approach. Sounds good, but doesn't work.

    Well if everybody did it I think it would.

    No you end up with a situation where the various stores are still trying to undercut each other, Stores have offers along the lines of "If you can find it cheaper elsewhere we will refund the difference" and such like. Prices do keep dropping for a while, but so does quality. You get hidden price increases, such as a reduction in the amount of content in a product, packs get smaller but this is not announced. Eventually you end up with a large amount of "discount" stores and a few who charge more, but supply quality products. THen of course the next move is that the prices in the cheaper stores start increasing slowly, but without any change in the quality. Eventually you will be paying more for less without realising it.

  • edited January 2013


    But it does work for many people otherwise it would have been changed by now. Keep in mind forum member are a tiny part of people who buy and most people don't even bother to come into the forum. So if you are the ones that say "I'll just buy it later", then you run the risk of missing the sale, which is really the point. Stores generally want to buy stuff preferably right then not later, but they also place things so where you will buy extra because they're on sale with no noticeable end dates. All part of buying more while you're in store... so really it does work.


    I am presuming from your comments that as you say it does work, and that sales for vendors are up and that business is not only good but better than before.
    I'm very pleased to learn this as sometimes around here you could easily think that people arn't buying, I do know that my spending is down and that I'm spending more at other stores I've also noticed that the forums are quieter than they use to be.
    Actually not all that many people are complaining or have stopped buying. Since I'm in a 'cut the bull' mood lately I'll tell you right now that I just roll my eyes when I see 'I'm no longer buying here' threads. People have this silly notion of David vs Goliath in their heads when it comes to business. Here's a newsflash - You're not David and the giant is not going to fall because you dared to speak out against it. You're not important, you're not valued, you're not loved and you're not respected. All they want from you is your money. That's all any business ever want from a client. Oh sure, they might make you believe that they care but blimey mate, do you honestly think someone lies awake at night somewhere in Utah and worries about that guy who threatened to stop buying? No! Instead they lie awake and think of the next big thing they can create to hook you in. That's why I love DAZ. They don't hide the fact that all I am to them is $$$. I feel safe knowing that. :cheese:
    Post edited by hnpieterse_5fabd0798d on
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 5,154
    edited January 2013


    But it does work for many people otherwise it would have been changed by now. Keep in mind forum member are a tiny part of people who buy and most people don't even bother to come into the forum. So if you are the ones that say "I'll just buy it later", then you run the risk of missing the sale, which is really the point. Stores generally want to buy stuff preferably right then not later, but they also place things so where you will buy extra because they're on sale with no noticeable end dates. All part of buying more while you're in store... so really it does work.


    I am presuming from your comments that as you say it does work, and that sales for vendors are up and that business is not only good but better than before.
    I'm very pleased to learn this as sometimes around here you could easily think that people arn't buying, I do know that my spending is down and that I'm spending more at other stores I've also noticed that the forums are quieter than they use to be.


    That's why I love DAZ. They don't hide the fact that all I am to them is $$$. I feel safe knowing that. :cheese:


    You're not important, you're not valued, you're not loved and you're not respected

    I wonder if the vendors feel the same way, I have seen posts from vendors expressing opposite sentiments than these, presumably they are just sops to get our money - or was the post directed personally at me.

    Post edited by scorpio on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 3,984
    edited January 2013

    Actually not all that many people are complaining or have stopped buying. Since I'm in a 'cut the bull' mood lately I'll tell you right now that I just roll my eyes when I see 'I'm no longer buying here' threads. People have this silly notion of David vs Goliath in their heads when it comes to business. Here's a newsflash - You're not David and the giant is not going to fall because you dared to speak out against it. You're not important, you're not valued, you're not loved and you're not respected. All they want from you is your money. That's all any business ever want from a client. Oh sure, they might make you believe that they care but blimey mate, do you honestly think someone lies awake at night somewhere in Utah and worries about that guy who threatened to stop buying? No! Instead they lie awake and think of the next big thing they can create to hook you in.

    That's why I love DAZ. They don't hide the fact that all I am to them is $$$. I feel safe knowing that. :cheese:

    So true and i am fine with it.

    Post edited by FSMCDesigns on
  • edited December 1969


    I wonder if the vendors feel the same way, I have seen posts from vendors expressing opposite sentiments than these, presumably they are just sops to get our money - or was the post directed personally at me.

    It's not personal. That's the whole point. Of course a vendor is gonna faff and koo at you. They'd be silly not to. They want people to like them because as an extension of that you might just end up buying something. It's professional courtesy. It's the guy behind the counter at Wallmart asking you how your day was.

    Of course people might now believe that I'm trying to say everyone who runs a business is a cold hear-ted faking monster. Not at all. They're pretty decent for a bunch of capitalists in fact. But don't kid yourself that you're any more special to them than the sound your money makes when it rolls into their pocket. Every product includes some basic support because they want you to buy their next product too. It's not good and it's not evil, it's just business. Knowing this for what it is can be quite liberating because you learn to make purchase choices not based on honeyed words but on quality and value for money. They want my money and I want quality and that's what makes the world go round. ;)

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 5,154
    edited January 2013

    I am quite aware that business is to make money but you have just painted the vendors and staff here as a bunch of coldhearted bloodsuckers, and personally I don't think thats fair especially as alot of them claim to not do it for the money but because they enjoy it.
    I would hope that Daz and those who work or represent the company do have some respect for this community especially considering how its the community that help the new comers and therefore help the business flourish.

    Post edited by scorpio on
  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,842
    edited December 1969

    It’s not personal.

    I have to wonder if you believe vendors are somehow less than human. That if our work is rejected or appreciate that we have no feelings about it. The reality is that most of us are striving diligently to try and please people. Yes, in part because our income depends on it but also in part because most art is created to appeal to someone on some level and an industry like this will not appeal to people who are not at least partly driven by that need. It is unlikely many people go into this industry and stay in this industry any length of time if they have no interest in having people approve of their work.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    I read Harry's post, and I'm wondering why there's such a visceral reaction to it... it seems to be the common "wisdom" where I live... even though it's completely wrong.

    I have to take issue with is the notion that business is not personal.

    The idea that Business an impersonal affair is a very Marxist notion designed to make collectivism more appealing.

    Business people, in my experience, want very long term relationships with clients. Yes it's about earning a living, but it's also about delivering good service. This is the foundation of Enlightened Self Interest.

    The best products on the market are those that have effort invested in them by the producer and the seller. DAZ, in my opinion, epitomizes this. It's a huge reason why, after so many years (and Zygote before them) I am still coming back. I like the product they produce and I like the effort they put into making that product the best it can be. They've gone from being a back-water outfit producing models for hobbyists reviled by those in the profession to producing the single most advanced Commercially marketed figure there is. I'd give an example of an impersonal business but I don't want to start a flame war.... r...

    Business is very personal. Anyone who treats it as an impersonal affair will not enjoy success for terribly long without making many enemies (which also ends up being personal...)

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,842
    edited January 2013

    They’re pretty decent for a bunch of capitalists in fact.

    Are you under the impression that we have much in the way of capital goods? I suspect 90% of the content providers out there work at home with one or two computers and a half decent chair. The only real solid capital that we poses is human capital and that is limited to 1 or 2 people in almost all cases and the only increase in value to our "companies" is via sweat equity. Admittedly we are given the free choice of what we do with out lives work wise and that is true of capitalist systems but it is also true of other social systems as evidenced by the fact that not all content creators are American or live in capitalist countries.

    Post edited by Khory on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 4,722
    edited January 2013

    chohole said:
    Taozen said:
    Taozen said:
    Me thinks all stores should drop all sales completely and lower the prices in general, instead.

    Google what happened when the iconic big US department store chain "J. C. Penney" (now known as JCP) tried that approach. Sounds good, but doesn't work.

    Well if everybody did it I think it would.

    No you end up with a situation where the various stores are still trying to undercut each other, Stores have offers along the lines of "If you can find it cheaper elsewhere we will refund the difference" and such like. Prices do keep dropping for a while, but so does quality. You get hidden price increases, such as a reduction in the amount of content in a product, packs get smaller but this is not announced. Eventually you end up with a large amount of "discount" stores and a few who charge more, but supply quality products. THen of course the next move is that the prices in the cheaper stores start increasing slowly, but without any change in the quality. Eventually you will be paying more for less without realising it.

    But all that is already happening now, at least where I am, except for the last part perhaps.

    I think the main reason for all this is that the majority - both sellers and buyers - always want as much as possible for as little as possible. If everyone would agree on paying a reasonable price for everything, i.e. a price that reflects the costs and the amount of work involved in producing something, things would work better.

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 4,722
    edited December 1969

    I am quite aware that business is to make money but you have just painted the vendors and staff here as a bunch of coldhearted bloodsuckers, and personally I don't think thats fair especially as alot of them claim to not do it for the money but because they enjoy it.
    I would hope that Daz and those who work or represent the company do have some respect for this community especially considering how its the community that help the new comers and therefore help the business flourish.

    Making money is part of it, but it's just as important to offer a good service or a good product, not because you have to or otherwise you won't sell anything, but as an ideal. When making money becomes the only ideal we end up where we are now, with a collapsing world economy.

  • edited December 1969

    Perhaps capitalist means something other than what I thought it meant. Most westerners are capitalists (including myself) as that is the economic system we are using. And my point was definitely not that any specific group is worse than another. Sheesh. I'm saying consumers are too often emotionally attached to a product when the creator of the product often don't even know their name and most likely don't care what their name is anyway. They post all this emotional stuff about how unfair they are being treated and how they demand justice to be served. They have a right to do this of course. I'm just saying they're wasting their breath. Of course I might be wrong and all vendors lie awake at night worrying about the fact that one Joe Smith of Somewhere wants to stop shopping here because they didn't check out a sale item when they had the chance.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,927
    edited December 1969

    Khory said:
    They’re pretty decent for a bunch of capitalists in fact.

    Are you under the impression that we have much in the way of capital goods? I suspect 90% of the content providers out there work at home with one or two computers and a half decent chair. The only real solid capital that we poses is human capital and that is limited to 1 or 2 people in almost all cases and the only increase in value to our "companies" is via sweat equity. Admittedly we are given the free choice of what we do with out lives work wise and that is true of capitalist systems but it is also true of other social systems as evidenced by the fact that not all content creators are American or live in capitalist countries.

    Heh. I just applied for local business licenses so I can open my own site in addition to my brokering at DAZ and Rendo. I had to describe my square footage used for business. It's around 27 sq. ft. because my workstation is 5' x 5'5" in my bedroom in a shared apartment.


    My capital for this business consists of two computers, one laptop, this old chair, and my... I'm female so let's say "courage." ;) I don't do this job just for the love (it has to support me and two cats), but I sure do love this job.

  • edited December 1969

    Miss SickleYield you are my favourite capitalist in the whole wide world!


    Now give me a discount so I can buy some more stuff from your store!

    :lol:

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,927
    edited January 2013

    Miss SickleYield you are my favourite capitalist in the whole wide world!


    Now give me a discount so I can buy some more stuff from your store!

    :lol:

    Flattery will get you emoticons, you naughty fellow, that's about it. :D ;) :o

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • edited December 1969

    Lol. I'll probably end up being charged for the emoticons too. :lol:

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    I'm saying consumers are too often emotionally attached to a product when the creator of the product often don't even know their name and most likely don't care what their name is anyway.

    The creator of a product doesn't have to care about the name of the guy who bought his or her product so long as he or she cares about the product itself.

    The smart ones will give decent service when there are issues with a product and make a solid attempt to rectify them. The motivation is that the producer gets a reputation that not only keeps people coming back, but gets spread.

    What is interesting is that most often what I see described about capitalists not caring about clients applies far more to the government worker.

    I pretty much live at the public library. Except for two librarians, all of them are impersonal and treat library patrons with some level of disdain. I see this at the DMV, City Hall, the County Court House, the Federal Building... they are secure in their jobs because most of us have to deal directly with them at some point. In business, people have options. There is Poser, DAZ Studio and iClone. There are a bunch of choices for 3D Figures out there... (well... there is Genesis, and the rest at various levels of obsolescense....) The point is, we all have choices. Consumers go where they get the best value first, and stay when they are well treated.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Heh. I just applied for local business licenses so I can open my own site in addition to my brokering at DAZ and Rendo. I had to describe my square footage used for business. It's around 27 sq. ft. because my workstation is 5' x 5'5" in my bedroom in a shared apartment.

    You had to buy a business license to start a website????????????????

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 6,927
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Heh. I just applied for local business licenses so I can open my own site in addition to my brokering at DAZ and Rendo. I had to describe my square footage used for business. It's around 27 sq. ft. because my workstation is 5' x 5'5" in my bedroom in a shared apartment.

    You had to buy a business license to start a website????????????????

    In my city and state, and when that site is for the purpose of making money, absolutely. You don't have to get a license to start a site talking about your cats or sharing recipes, I don't think.

  • edited December 1969

    It makes sense though. You're still operating a business even though your customers are spread across the globe and how would the government get their cut if you didn't declare this? I don't think it would be fun being locked up for tax evasion. :lol:

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,396
    edited December 1969

    I know we pay taxes out our butt on what we make here

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    In my city and state, and when that site is for the purpose of making money, absolutely. You don't have to get a license to start a site talking about your cats or sharing recipes, I don't think.

    I'd ignore it and make them come to me, at which point I'd tell them I work out of a PO Box in Nevada.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    I know we pay taxes out our butt on what we make here

    I'll bet you do! :(

  • edited December 1969

    Are you bragging or complaining Frank?

    Lol, just teasing. ;)

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,396
    edited December 1969

    Complaining cause I have to pay 15% more in taxes then your average person for being self employed.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited January 2013

    Frank0314 said:
    Complaining cause I have to pay 15% more in taxes then your average person for being self employed.

    Well, you have to admit, being self employed you are part of the 1% rich elite who is supposed to spoon feed, cloth and house the rest of us :)

    and when you go shopping for my shoes, don't forget I want the new air jordans!

    Post edited by wancow on
  • edited December 1969

    I hear you. That's a global thing though. It's as if governments all over the world got together at some point and said 'All people who owns a business must be rich and should therefore pay super super tax'.

    High level employees also get punished this way. I pay 25% tax on my income. That's one quarter of my pay check gone every month. But then again, welcome to Africa. Lol. :lol:

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    I hear you. That's a global thing though. It's as if governments all over the world got together at some point and said 'All people who owns a business must be rich and should therefore pay super super tax'.

    High level employees also get punished this way. I pay 25% tax on my income. That's one quarter of my pay check gone every month. But then again, welcome to Africa. Lol. :lol:

    In the U.S. it's 35%, and that's not counting State income tax, that's only the federal level.

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,269
    edited January 2013

    Ultimately, [edit for clarification: as a customer,] what's the difference between the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he thinks it will improve the bottom line, and the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he cares about you?

    For the most part, PAs* seem to be a friendly and helpful bunch, and seem to value relationships they build here and on other sites. Maybe for some the value is more social and for some the value is more economic in nature, but I'd imagine that generally it's a mix of both. If someone is only in it to make a profit, then (with a few exceptions, if any) I think they'll soon find more lucrative opportunities outside of our little corner of the market. I certainly prefer to assume that the motivations aren't entirely financial.

    Personally I do prefer to buy from PAs who do things like contribute to the forums, sponsor contests, and make freebies. I even go into sales sometimes thinking, "Okay, I'll buy something from vendors X, Y, and Z, and then see if there's any cash left for other things..." So there probably is some economic incentive to do these things, in addition to the social benefits of contributing to the community.

    *Of course there are a number of PAs who aren't too active on the forum, and given the negative tone that exists around here sometimes, I can't say I blame them...

    Oh, and yes the thread title should be changed...though the original title certainly got the attention of a number of vendors!

    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Ultimately, what's the difference between the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he thinks it will improve the bottom line, and the vendor who gives you good service and personal attention because s/he cares about you?

    I can give you a third reason: because in giving good service the vendor might learn something that will give his or her next product better value... and that happens more often than not. Personal service improves the bottom line always. That's the beauty of it... being nice means more money? Really?

    That kinda aces my ability to be in business simply because I'm so grouchy... :P

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