My Project: Brash Lonergan adventures

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Comments

  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,143
    Diomede said:
    - Base mouth 1 - a black and white plane covered by a panel that extends down to include the chin like a ventriloquist's wooden dummy.  The chin slides down to open the mouth and the black/white plane is adjusted for phonemes and expressions.

    If you have a moment, could you elaborate a bit more, I'm having trouble visualzing how the black and white plane operates. blush...smiley

    I did some experiments a few months ago with Carrara 8.5's 'UV Transform' Operator, maybe this might interest you?

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/400936/animated-sprite-sheets-using-uv-transform-in-carrara-8-5

    (sorry to plug my own thread, lol)

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131
    edited September 2020

    @DesertDude, your animated spites are exactly the effect I'd like to have, or very, very close.  yesyes

    I will have to look more closely at what you did.

    Don't know how I missed the thread, but I see I don't have any comments in it.  What was I doing at the time?

    Anyway, Heat Miser singing his song by pulling his chin down (with a few lip morphs) revealing a black plane to be the open mouth has occasional glmpses of white teeth - but you are already way ahead of me.  

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,143
    Diomede said:

    @DesertDude, your animated spites are exactly the effect I'd like to have, or very, very close.  yesyes

    I will have to look more closely at what you did.

    Don't know how I missed the thread, but I see I don't have any comments in it.  What was I doing at the time?

    Anyway, Heat Miser singing his song by pulling his chin down (with a few lip morphs) revealing a black plane to be the open mouth has occasional glmpses of white teeth - but you are already way ahead of me.  

    Thank  you Diomede, and cool, I hope it helps / inspires some solutions for you.
    Lol at myself, I never did the v3.0 version, but I think simple geometry morphs + 2D cartoonish phonemes might be a path to what you want. Everything is different for everybody in 3D land, which is awesome!

  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,143

    P.S. those Christmas specials were...so awesome growing up...beloved. yes

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397
    Diomede said:
    - Base mouth 1 - a black and white plane covered by a panel that extends down to include the chin like a ventriloquist's wooden dummy.  The chin slides down to open the mouth and the black/white plane is adjusted for phonemes and expressions.

    If you have a moment, could you elaborate a bit more, I'm having trouble visualzing how the black and white plane operates. blush...smiley

    I did some experiments a few months ago with Carrara 8.5's 'UV Transform' Operator, maybe this might interest you?

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/400936/animated-sprite-sheets-using-uv-transform-in-carrara-8-5

    (sorry to plug my own thread, lol)

    I love your work in that thread DD!!!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397
    edited September 2020

    P.S. those Christmas specials were...so awesome growing up...beloved. yes

    Rosie and I watch them at least once a year - we just Have to! I still get scared, so I have to snuggle up to my Super Hero!

    R5AusUS_SitRem01a096.png
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    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,143

    Rosie and I watch them at least once a year - we just Have to! I still get scared, so I have to snuggle up to my Super Hero!

    You mean the...bottle there? Just kidding. laugh
     

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397

    LOL laugh

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    Not much on the 3D front for Brash and Moxie lately, but I did pick up the book "Pioneers" for related reading.  Here is an interview with the author.

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?463458-20/historian-david-mccullough-discusses-the-pioneers

  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,143

    "Most of Them Melted. But the Two Surviving Puppets From the Holiday Film ‘Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer’ Could Be Yours for $250,000"

    https://news.artnet.com/market/rudolph-red-nosed-reindeer-auction-1917938

    smiley

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    I was just wondering what to do with that extra $250,000. 
    Maybe for now just go to museums.

    Any recommended collections in the US?  A couple years ago the Library of Congress had a big comic book exhibition which had accessories from way back in the day.  An old Wonder Woman comic book was the "touch and feel" edition.  A little creepy.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    Speaking of comic book collections, this post is for Flash Gordon comic book lovers.

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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397

    That is Gorgeous!!!

  • MystiaraMystiara Posts: 38,116
    edited December 2020

    was curious if Brash is a unique base model or character based on a daz figure

    i'm sure i looked before but i cant remember

    Post edited by Mystiara on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    Brash and Moxie are unique base models that I created in Carrara's vertex modeler and rigged using Carrara's bones and weightmaps.  The low res version of Brash has just over 7,000 polygons, so very low res compared to classic figures like V4 and M4.  But I have been having second thoughts about the Brash and Moxie adventures.  For the vintage newspaper comic style that interests me for Brash/Moxie it might make more sense to create morphs for Daz figures. The early pages of the thread have several modeling tutorial videos that DesertDude, Veronika, Dartanbeck, and other generous forum folks suggested and contributed.  

    On the other hand, the more stylized claymation and cartoon projects that interest me probably make more sense for stylized figures.  

    Here are some shots of the mesh and the rigging.

    Brash Mesh about 7k polygons.jpg
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    Brash Mesh Head.jpg
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    Brash Rigging.jpg
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  • MystiaraMystiara Posts: 38,116

    the home made versions will be gret i you dicde to make in a game version or 3d print smiley

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397

    Even if you do decide to go with Daz 3D figures, this whole Brash and Moxie was a Great rise for you! I mean... making working figures is not easy - some CG artists could argue that statement, but it's true.

    Learning the skills takes you places in the end - simply because it's something you've done before - and in the case of Brash and Moxie, I'd say you've succeeded pretty darned well!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    @Dartanbeck, this essay on Flash Gordon might interest you.  The essay was written by someone who does not want a remake and believes he knows why such films do not make money (relative to budget).

    http://www.scifimoviepage.com/upcoming/previews/flash_gordon_2010.html

    The author makes some good points, but I have some fundamental disagreement.  In my opinion, even campy and over the top material is best when it is done straight.  Here is a quote from the essay.

    "There is no way to actually translate the material to celluloid without going the self-consciously campy route that the 1980 movie went. If you don’t, then it ceases being Flash Gordon and you might as well do something else altogether. (George Lucas confessed in interviews that he initially wanted to do a Flash Gordon movie, but couldn’t acquire the film rights. So he did Star Wars instead.)"

    I would point out that the veteran English actors hired for Star Wars played it straight.  Alec Guiness was not campy for Obi Won.  Peter Cushing was not campy for Tarkin.  They were making a 'childish' movie with clear delineations of right and wrong of a morality play, but the actors, costumes, props, sets, were delivered straight.  Everyone did their role straight and let the material handle 'childish' part.  And that is why it works, because there is an audience of 'children of all ages.'  Similarly, Leslie Nielsen plays it straight in Airplane! and the Naked Gun movies.  He lets the material convey the over-the-top humor.

    So yeah, I want bomb-shaped spaceships propelled by sideways flames and dialogue that includes lots of "Brash is our only hope of salvation now," but this is not the time for Crosby and Hope style Road to (wherever) ad libs in which the actors turn to the camera (break the fourth wall) and make fun of the picture.  That self-conscious stuff can be great in the appropriate comedy, but I want my morality-play-space-adventure to be played straight, and let the material deliver the camp.  

    Or, spoof the genre like Mel Brooks.  

    That is my opinion.  Am curious of the thoughts of others.  See the essay linked above.

  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,536

    That's an interesting read! (saved it)

    Something about doing 'silly' well and with a straight face, strikes a particular chord - somewhere in that 'sarcastic' segment of the brain and simply our liking to watch folks having fun playing 'make-believe'. It's not like they're fooling you, or even trying, but rather inviting you to escape with them to that place - willful suspension of disbelief on steroids, etc.

    princess-bride, anything by mel brooks (which really didn't age as well as I would have thought, but I like it anyway), and many others - intellectual escapism, I suppose. Even any of the first half of the original star-trek series played that line well, and more-so than the later episodes, to my memory.

    thanks for the link/thought-tickler.

    --ms

  • Bunyip02Bunyip02 Posts: 4,928
    edited February 25

    As a Sci-Fi fan I have noticed that there are supporters of the "fantasy" type of Sci-Fi and there are also supporters of the "science" type of Sci-Fi.

    I would think most people bred on Star Wars and Star Trek would follow the "science" type more than "fantasy".

    For Flash Gordon to be faithful to it's origin it would be definately campy to todays standards, putting it in the class for fans only, which is a more restricted category.

    Then there is the problem of stereotypes that needs to be addressed especially in a politically correct world !

    A Mel Brooks "Blazing Saddles" version of Flash Gordon would be food for thought....

    Post edited by Bunyip02 on
  • mindsongmindsong Posts: 1,536

    hmm,

    perhaps there are three categories of directorial choice here (more possible, just for starters though) - the camera (4th wall):

     - is not there. we are invisible/non-present voyers (normal movies)

     - is there. we are 'present' in the context, but uninvolved bystanders (blazing saddles, some live theatre in-the-round productions)

     - is there, and we are an implied part of the action - somehow sharing in the benefits/consequences of the situation, even if having no impact (when actors look at camera and ..., comedians - direct interaction, live camera stuff, where the character viewing is signaling us to 'come in, make your self comfortable' etc.)

    and sometimes a mix - usually more comedic (moonlighting, allie mcbeal).

    each has it's place and its masters. I've always enjoyed the varied results, without thinking much about the form. interesting to consider now.

    --ms

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    Appreciate your perspectives, Bunyip and Mindsong.  I hope I get the correct balance with Brash Lonergan.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131
    edited March 3

    Speaking of Brash...

    I got an important reminder today.  I decided to try to adapt Brash's UVs to some skin merchant resource maps by VYusur.  https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-and-8-males-texture-merchant-resource

    !!! - editing UVs will distort dynamic hair that is grown directly on the mesh, like Brash's eyebrows.  The hair on his head was not distorted because that is grown on a hair cap, which did not have its UVs edited.

    Some screenshots follow of

    - Brash's eyebrows grown on face with original UVMap of Brash's mesh.

    - Using the 'Display mode' of the UVMap editor in the modeling room to display VYusur's merchant resource skin map so that I can edit Brash's UVs to align (more or less).

    - The distortion of Brash's eyebrow dynamic hair after editing some of the facial UVs.

    Not necessarily a fatal error given that eyebrow hair can be replaced, but important to remember when deciding to adapt UVs.

     

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    bb01 brash face uvmap start to adapt to VYusur merchant resource shape.jpg
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    bb02 brash eyebrows grown directly on mesh go hay wire.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131
    edited March 3

    Reminder of what default Brash looks like with dynamic hair.  There is also a default Brash with mesh hair using Philemo's dynamic to mesh hair plugin.  The mesh hair version is for native toon filter.

    bb03.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    Misty has inspired me.  At some point, preparation must yield to execution.

    Time to start doing.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    Slapstick - Slipping on a banana peel can still be funny.

    (re-link from a series recommended to me by Headwax)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397
    edited May 4

    Very nice job on re-UVing! Brash looks great!!!

    Diomede said:

    Misty has inspired me.  At some point, preparation must yield to execution.

    Time to start doing.

    That's where I have been lately - although I'm still learning and tweaking, I'm no longer "waiting until I'm done experimenting" to get this ball rolling.

     

    This has been a real push forward because 'doing' teaches more (I think - in my case, at least) for making everything better than does perpetual preparation after some point.

     

    Yes, I did need those years of learning, experimenting, reading, tweaking, etc., in order to get to this point. So I'm glad that I took my time with all of this. 

     

    Now that I've actually started 'filming', it's amazing how much work I've been getting done in my limited time. Often only one or possibly two animations in a day right now, those have been accumulating into a nice library of scene assets. They're going slowly right now because I'm working on Rosie. She takes time since there are always at least two simulations for each animation, and the animations are always custom.

     

    Edit: And many of her animations require her to interact with other scene elements that aren't in the scene yet, which takes time (and collision objects and shadow catchers) to complete.

     

    When I was testing my plan for her interacting with the environment and other characters, I've seen how all of these other things will come together Very Fast in comparison. So while I still need more Rosie actions, I just keep plugging along since I need those in order to make the rest and, since I'm on a roll, they're turning out very consistent. So it only makes sense to just stay on task.

     

    This is why I haven't been doing as much with video demos and web articles lately - nose to the grindstone on a short movie!

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397

    Besides, I really like animating Rosie! :)  heart

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 17,397
    edited May 4

    Bunyip02 said:

    As a Sci-Fi fan I have noticed that there are supporters of the "fantasy" type of Sci-Fi and there are also supporters of the "science" type of Sci-Fi.

    I would think most people bred on Star Wars and Star Trek would follow the "science" type more than "fantasy".

    For Flash Gordon to be faithful to it's origin it would be definately campy to todays standards, putting it in the class for fans only, which is a more restricted category.

    Then there is the problem of stereotypes that needs to be addressed especially in a politically correct world !

    A Mel Brooks "Blazing Saddles" version of Flash Gordon would be food for thought....

    I have never really been a movie critic. I like what I like, dislike what I dislike, and there''s a bunch of material that falls in between. So don't take this as opposition to what you're saying at all - just stating where I am in all of this:

     

    I prefer to be in the Fantasy Fiction side of Sci Fi. In fact, too much "Reality" in a Sci Fi tends to wreck it for me. 

     

    I come from a long line of scientists, and I really like science and reality - I do. But when it comes to futuristic entertainment, I really love to be swept away with fun and art rather than watching an attempt to dramitize a 'realistic' future. But this isn't a carved-in-stone perspective. I am totally open to a realistic Sci Fi if it's entertaining!

     

    Rosie and I watch a lot of scientific documentaries, which is where I really enjoy a good does of Real. Astronomy is amazing, as is a lot of biology, chemistry, mechanical dynamics....

     

    SteveK recently showing those videos on Screenplay also reminds me how much I enjoy watching the realism of making movies, from writing and scripting to producing, directing and photography to VFX. I really enjoy learning from and being inspired by these things.

     

    Anyway, as I started working on the idea of making movies in Carrara I never felt the pressure that I feel today - the pressure of making a film correctly. So when it comes to story writing, proper fundamentals of engaging the audience, and entering into the world of selling the final production, I find myself more nervous than ever before. I never really paid attention to critiques, as they often criticize parts of a movie where I agreed more with the filmmaker than the critic. 

    So rather than being bogged down with the worry of making something Good, I'm just going to Make Something.

     

    I truly am making something that I hope others will enjoy, but in the end, I guess the person I'm making this for is me.

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,131

    Thanks for the encouragement, Bunyip and Dart.  I have decided to go with a comic book / graphic novel approach of sequenced images rather than animations.  I may do a few animations for promo purposes.  I played around with Daz Studio's Line Render 9000.  The advanatage it gives is the ability to adjust the edge sensitivity identification.  Very handy tool and I think Daz Studio folks would do well to explore it.  However, the multipass options, GMIC options, toon and YAToon options in Carrara can generate starting line art, and if I am going to be adjusting it anyway, I'd rather have Carrara's within-scene adjustment tools. 

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