UV mapping question

BurpeeBurpee Posts: 115
edited December 1969 in Hexagon Discussion

If I have a square or circular primitive Hexagon creates a perfect uvmap after slicing but when I have complex shape Hexagon will shrink one side of the uvmap so it is reduced in size compared to the other side. Pinning makes absolutely no difference.

I have a dome shaped roof and want to uvmap it. I first tried adding one slice at the back of it and I get a three quarter semi-circular shape that is smaller on on side (always on the right side of the uvmap). I then uv sliced it in half but got two mis-shaped pieces. I then tried using pins at various points near the seams and on a point opposite the slicing.

Anyone know why this is happening ( the right side of the uvmap smaller than the left)?

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Comments

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,888
    edited December 1969

    Hexagon's UV mapping is not the greatest for anything but the simplest shapes and disproportionate mapping is one of many problems. If you are going to do much of this, I strongly suggest getting a dedicated mapper, or use Blender or Wings3D.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 1,757
    edited December 1969

    I had that issue when I was first attempting to UV map the kataginu I made, and there are ways to resolve it. Usually, what you need to do is change the Projection axis (from X to Y or Z) and/or the Pinning axis (from U to V). It does take some experimentation with different combinations of Projection and pinning axes to get the best result for each object.

  • WilmapWilmap Posts: 2,173
    edited May 2012

    I use UV Layout Pro. It works extremely well.

    http://www.uvlayout.com/

    Post edited by Wilmap on
  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I (and many others) don't use hex for mapping at all since it can be such a PITA in ways such as you describe.

    IMNSHO, the best program on the planet for UV mapping is free - it's called UVMapper, and is available for download at http://www.uvmapper.com/

    But if you insist on using hexagon, then listen to Tramp. He's probably hacked his way into more experience using hexagon's UV mapping than the lot of us put together. :)

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,731
    edited December 1969

    It really depends on what you want to map as to what program you use, but if you want a program that will do it all get UVLayout.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited May 2012

    UVMapper is very good and I still use it:
    http://www.uvmapper.com/

    The Pro version is far cheaper than UVLayout and is easier to use, IMHO.

    UVMapper classic will not unwrap meshes. You can do that in Hexagon. But for assigning groups, regions and material groups, NOTHING beats UVMapper, IMHO. It was custom made for the Wavefront OBJ format (with Poser users in mind).

    Post edited by wancow on
  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    UVMapper classic will not unwrap meshes


    Sure will!

    On the free version look under "edit" ==> "new UV map" and you'll see the unfolding schemes such as "planar", "box", etc.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    UVMapper classic will not unwrap meshes


    Sure will!

    On the free version look under "edit" ==> "new UV map" and you'll see the unfolding schemes such as "planar", "box", etc.

    By unwrapping meshes, I mean you cannot manipulate individual vertexes. You can select individual polygons if you're VERY good... but that's inadvisable on a complex mesh.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,731
    edited December 1969

    I used UVMapper Pro for several years and what took me 20 minutes to do in it takes me 2 in UVLayout. Is a bit more expensive but well worth it if your going to use it a lot. If you don't plane on using it a lot then definitely go with UVMapper.

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    wancow said:
    UVMapper classic will not unwrap meshes


    Sure will!

    On the free version look under "edit" ==> "new UV map" and you'll see the unfolding schemes such as "planar", "box", etc.

    By unwrapping meshes, I mean you cannot manipulate individual vertexes. You can select individual polygons if you're VERY good... but that's inadvisable on a complex mesh.



    Actually you can do that, too. Look under "edit" ==> "select by" and you can select by vertex or facet.

    But I do understand what you mean...even with that ability they're difficult to work with in the free version. The Pro version gives a lot more breathing room with its ability to zoom in tight on an area and its ability to remap selected vertices/faces. The free version doesn't have these functions.

    But even at that, with the free version, he can create an initial planar map and save the model, and then load that model into hexagon and fine tune it from there.

    And of course there's the ultimate utilitarian advantage of free UVMapper: After the model has been mapped (by whichever program) It can still write texture bitmap images far superior to hexagon's. :)

    I believe this is the first I've heard of UVLayout, so I'll have to go take a peek at it... :)

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,731
    edited December 1969

    UVLayout is great and I'd suggest it to anybody. They have some really good tutorials on how to use the program. It only took me about 3 days to get the hang of everything.

  • BurpeeBurpee Posts: 115
    edited May 2012

    Hi all, I've spent so much time using Hexagon to uvmap that I was comfortable with it. Had always wondered why it had screwy shaped uvs. I see that it's because Hexagon has troubles calculating uvs.

    It's a pleasure to use a program that can create a completed obj from start to finish. Wouldn't it be nice to have Hex make good uvs, to have more Relax modes, to be able to paint across seams (it can't paint across uv lines yet). This software is so easy to use and I really wish they would perfect it by fixing some of the simple issues that plague. I sent a bug report last year and it's never been addressed.

    I have the free UVmapper but I never understood it. I didn't spend much time trying to learn it though. It creates all the uvs on top of each other and I didn't know how to add seam lines to unwrap or how to select just part of the obj for uving.

    I was hoping that if I learned to use Hex's uv tools that I wouldn't need to learn another program but I see that I have to anyway. I'm sure it will save me time in the long run. I learn best with a teacher. Learning on my own takes me so long.

    Edit: forgot to say that I will try chainging the orientation o fthe pinning. I've never tried that before with an object. Also, redid the uvs without adding any seam lines and I get a much better uv (per the checker pattern) but it will make it harder to add a shingle texture.

    Post edited by Burpee on
  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    UVLayout is great and I'd suggest it to anybody. They have some really good tutorials on how to use the program. It only took me about 3 days to get the hang of everything.

    UVLayout is about the best I've used. took me about as long as watching the videos to get the hang of it. The free version can probly do as much or more than UVMapper pro. Unless you use it a lot you won't miss any of the features of the payed version. Biggest drawback is having to download a new version every month or so.

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 386
    edited May 2012

    I agree, Hex is a pain to UV map in. It can be done, but a hell of a lot of energy, and frustration are expended in doing so. I got tired of Hex fighting me (and am experienced mapper), so I went back to my usual suspects.


    My pipeline/UV mapping software:


    *Wings3D
    *Roadkill
    *Blender
    *UV Mapper Classic (and Pro for testing only)
    *headus UVLayout (free version)


    I use whatever algorithm works best for what type of mapping per object I am trying to achieve, so I go back and forth between them remapping along the way.


    Example; I just mapped a pendant 5 different times (and ways using W3D, Roadkill, and UVLayout), and will combine the best into one map. But, a secondary use/test for this is I want to test DS4 Pro's ability for map switching on custom prop content.


    Why, you ask, am I using so many programs to map one product? Well, to play to the strengths, and avoid the weaknesses of each individual ones.


    *UVLayout (using for a couple of years now), hands down, has the greatest flattening algorithm out there, but I find the cut/weld lacking, and never works correctly for me (refusing to weld, edge loop cut/weld failures). And, yes, I do know how they are supposed to work. They just don't want to work for me (in free version that is). Nonetheless, I recommend EVERYONE having a copy (free for personal use) to, at least, use for final flattening of your maps.


    *UVMapper Classic - Another indispensable program that no one should be without. As a whole, I wouldn't recommend doing complete mapping jobs in it (It's no longer 1999, and we are not stuck in Poser4 anymore), but it handles some algorithms like a champ that can assist you to create your finals quicker. Not to mention the other uses (mentioned above, and others) it has for the Poserverse.

    - Side Note: afreaginname, technically, UVMapper C does unwrap the mesh using whatever algorithm chosen, but it auto-picks seam lines. What is (usually) meant by unwrapping is to pick your own seam lines to be followed by either ABF, or LSCM flattening. Neither of which are available in UVMC (let alone custom unwrapping via edge seams). But, that is not to say someone who isn't diligent enough couldn't accomplish custom unwrapping in it. It can be done via vertex selection, hiding/un-hiding mesh, and temporary groups/regions. It can be done, but I can only imagine the ordeal. I would rather take my chances in Hex.


    *Roadkill - Yet, another free mapper that should be included in anyone's arsenal. The ABF, and LSCM algorithms taken directly from the original white paper source, wrapped up into a lightweight powerhouse with (IMHO) the best (on the fly) cut/weld tool out there. This program/tool later to be reborn, and improved upon inside of Blender.


    *Blender - Almost on par with UVLayout in many respects, only falling short (in my eyes) by a slightly less effective flattening algorithm than UVL, and that it is not a dedicated mapper only. If Roadkill's author would only take all the advances in Blender, and update his stand-alone. One can only wish... And, for those who don't know, Roadkill uses auto-flattening without the ability of controlled continuous flattening that are in both Blender (added to original coding), and UVLayout.


    *Wings3D - one of the best, and quickest auto-mappers for free out there with the ability to map via several different techniques. Always my starting point in any project, and always where I end up solidifying the final map. What it lacks from the others, it makes up by ease of use, and multitude of UV tool-set. Bonus; It is an exceptional modeler that can help with Hex creations when Hex is being stubborn in some areas. They play well together...


    Sorry for the long post, but if we are going to talk UV mappers, then let's talk UV mappers. Don't just say I like this or that app. C'mon, tell the OP why he should be using such-n-such app instead of Hex. Or, hell, convince all of us to abandon the others, and make Hex our only mapping solution. I so much want Hex to be my de facto modeler/mapper. Someone convince me it should be (DAZ, looking at you, and Hex 3. Where are you?).


    This thread made me think we should really start a UV Mapping 101 thread with all facets, and tidbits of the ins-n-outs of mapping where everyone can share techniques, styles, and secrets to help out all from those just getting started, to seasoned veterans and pros. What say you?


    Take care all...
    Ken

    Post edited by DaremoK3 on
  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    DaremoK3 said:

    *Roadkill - Yet, another free mapper that should be included in anyone's arsenal. The ABF, and LSCM algorithms taken directly from the original white paper source, wrapped up into a lightweight powerhouse with (IMHO) the best (on the fly) cut/weld tool out there. This program/tool later to be reborn, and improved upon inside of Blender.

    I liked Roadkill best for the same reasons. Too many other problems tho including crashes makes me prefer UVLayout. If it's back in development that is a good thing and I look forward to it.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    Question, doesn't anyone use Photoshop for painting their objs?

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Burpee said:

    I have the free UVmapper but I never understood it. I didn't spend much time trying to learn it though. It creates all the uvs on top of each other and I didn't know how to add seam lines to unwrap or how to select just part of the obj for uving.

    In the edit pulldown, you can select by Group, Material Group, or Region. You can select multiple groups at once and use the [ key to hide, the ] key to show.

    The help pulldown has all your hot keys.

    For what it is, the freeware UVmapper is VERY powerful!

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    Question, doesn't anyone use Photoshop for painting their objs?

    You mean creating textures or as a 3D Paint program?

    Personally, I'd love to see a DAZ Studio GIMP Bridge!

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    DaremoK3 said:
    afreaginname, technically, UVMapper C does unwrap the mesh using whatever algorithm chosen, but it auto-picks seam lines. What is (usually) meant by unwrapping is to pick your own seam lines...

    Yes, that had actually crossed my mind even as I was writing my comment and, my bad, I really should have noted that important distinction.

    In fact, even the pro version doesn't have that ability, although I can sometimes "fake it" by breaking a given mapped layout into subsections along the "seams" I would rather have and then remapping the subsections separately.

    Not nearly as elegant or simple as picking the seams first and unfolding directly from them, though. :)

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Burpee said:

    I have the free UVmapper but I never understood it. I didn't spend much time trying to learn it though. It creates all the uvs on top of each other and I didn't know how to add seam lines to unwrap or how to select just part of the obj for uving.

    In the edit pulldown, you can select by Group, Material Group, or Region. You can select multiple groups at once and use the [ key to hide, the ] key to show.

    The help pulldown has all your hot keys.

    For what it is, the freeware UVmapper is VERY powerful!

    Didn't Daz do away with groups with Genesis? What's the difference between material groups and clusters and what's the point in selecting them if all you can do is hide them? Unless I misunderstand, Hex gives you more control there. If regions are the same as islands I would ask the same question. Hiding various parts only means you have to use multiple maps. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's also not necessarily very efficient either.

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    Question, doesn't anyone use Photoshop for painting their objs?


    I don't know what capabilities later versions may have, but photoshop 8 can't load OBJ files.

    But once I UV map an OBJ and create a texture template from it, then I use PS to paint the template.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 1,757
    edited December 1969

    admkrk said:
    wancow said:
    Burpee said:

    I have the free UVmapper but I never understood it. I didn't spend much time trying to learn it though. It creates all the uvs on top of each other and I didn't know how to add seam lines to unwrap or how to select just part of the obj for uving.

    In the edit pulldown, you can select by Group, Material Group, or Region. You can select multiple groups at once and use the [ key to hide, the ] key to show.

    The help pulldown has all your hot keys.

    For what it is, the freeware UVmapper is VERY powerful!

    Didn't Daz do away with groups with Genesis? What's the difference between material groups and clusters and what's the point in selecting them if all you can do is hide them? Unless I misunderstand, Hex gives you more control there. If regions are the same as islands I would ask the same question. Hiding various parts only means you have to use multiple maps. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's also not necessarily very efficient either.

    having different "material zones" allows you to apply different textures, colors, and shaders to different parts of an object. For instance, if you create a belt with a buckle, having the buckle as a separate material zone from the belt allows you to apply a leather texture to the belt and a chrome or metal shader to the buckle. IT would also allow you to make a dress or blouse with sheer sleeves on an opaque bodice, etc. all while sharing the same UV map.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    The other thing is that UVMapper Classic will also create a UVs file, so if you have a prop you need to create a new uv for... assuming there's a way to do this in DS4, to apply a new UVs... (would love to figure that one out!)

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited May 2012

    admkrk said:
    Didn't Daz do away with groups with Genesis? What's the difference between material groups and clusters and what's the point in selecting them if all you can do is hide them?


    A "group" is a major component of a model, like an upper arm, lower arm, head, foot...that sort of thing.
    A "material" can be a couple of things: It could be a subsection of a group such as "lips" on the head, or it can comprise several groups such as "skinbody".
    A "region" is a user defined portion of a model that is specific to UVMapper only, and is handy for moving portions of a model around or hiding/showing various portions as you map it.

    If you load a poser model into UVMapper, UVMapper shows all the UV maps in the model, and they all overlay each other in a big mess. By "hiding" things like the "head", "eyes", "teeth", etc..., you expose, say, only the body map to work on.

    DS4 may not use groups, but hexagon and UVMapper do.

    Post edited by afreaginname on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    DS4 uses Material Groups. Regions are great for processing OBJs, by the way. Neither Poser nor DS ever used those at all, so they do not affect the obj in either. By the way, DS4 DOES recognize Object Groups, it's Genesis that has a single object group. If it did not, Victoria 4 would not work in DS4.

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969



    A "group" is a major component of a model, like an upper arm, lower arm, head, foot...that sort of thing.
    outside of Poser and Daz pre Genesis it still means nothing tho, right?

    A "material" can be a couple of things: It could be a subsection of a group such as "lips" on the head, or it can comprise several groups such as "skinbody".
    I understand that and that's all a cluster is, but as I said, what does it have to do with UV maps?

    A "region" is a user defined portion of a model that is specific to UVMapper only, and is handy for moving portions of a model around or hiding/showing various portions as you map it.

    So it is the same as an island.


    If you load a poser model into UVMapper, UVMapper shows all the UV maps in the model, and they all overlay each other in a big mess. By "hiding" things like the "head", "eyes", "teeth", etc..., you expose, say, only the body map to work on.

    How does that pertain to any model I made in Hex or any other modeler and need to map? Maybe I'm wrong in assuming that anyone posting here is only looking to remap something someone else did?

    DS4 may not use groups, but hexagon and UVMapper do.

    How does that pertain to any model I made in Hex?

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    You can select the object groups you produce in hexagon after you export them to OBJ and use UVMapper to tweak the maps. I do it all the time.

  • admkrkadmkrk Posts: 48
    edited December 1969

    I don't believe I ever said you can't?
    All I was saying is that there are better and easier ways, such as UVLayout or Roadkill that give you real unwrapping options.

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    admkrk said:


    A "group" is a major component of a model, like an upper arm, lower arm, head, foot...that sort of thing.
    outside of Poser and Daz pre Genesis it still means nothing tho, right?

    Outside of wavefront OBJ files it means nothing.


    A "material" can be a couple of things: It could be a subsection of a group such as "lips" on the head, or it can comprise several groups such as "skinbody".
    I understand that and that's all a cluster is, but as I said, what does it have to do with UV maps?

    What do materials have to do with UV maps? Is this a trick question?


    If you load a poser model into UVMapper, UVMapper shows all the UV maps in the model, and they all overlay each other in a big mess. By "hiding" things like the "head", "eyes", "teeth", etc..., you expose, say, only the body map to work on.

    How does that pertain to any model I made in Hex or any other modeler and need to map?


    You asked "What’s the difference between material groups and clusters and what’s the point in selecting them if all you can do is hide them?"

    Maybe I'm wrong in assuming that anyone posting here is only looking to remap something someone else did?


    I have no idea where you came up with that assumption.


    DS4 may not use groups, but hexagon and UVMapper do.

    How does that pertain to any model I made in Hex?


    You asked "Didn’t Daz do away with groups with Genesis?"

    This thread isn't about models YOU made in hex, nor is it about DS4 or genesis. It's about UV mapping problems the OP is having with models HE makes in hex and how we can help him solve those problems.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    By the way, one thing you can do in UVMapper Classic you can't do in Hex is assign more than one material group to the same object group. Hex doensn't allow that.

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