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Show Us Your Bryce Renders! Part 2
Posted: 25 November 2012 04:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 646 ]
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TheSavage64 - 25 November 2012 04:23 AM
David Brinnen - 25 November 2012 03:45 AM

Yes and no.  Yes you can do something about it.  No you may not like the answer.  The smaller the light sources get, the more chance they will generate noise because the possibility of them getting sampled for light shrinks so correspondingly you increase the power of them as light sources.  And fireflies result.

Solutions,

Wrap your glowing sabres in larger invisible gel lights to increase the area of light producing surface - this means you can reduce the power and take the “heat” out of your fireflies.

Add normal direct radial lights along the length of the sabres to compliment your TA lighting - if the render time gets too large, split your render in two.  Make a standard lighting render and a TA render, process the TA render to mitigate the noise and combine the two to add the glow effect back into your scene.

Strip your scene back to a glowing stick and your basic set up and let me ponder a solution?

OK thanks, some stuff to look into today.
I’ve already tried some of the things I thought would help, none of those things are things that you suggest (which makes me wonder if I’m not completely wrong about how this works). Re-enabling the sun and making the sky white (which in theory should provide more light surfaces for rays to sample?) had no effect.

I don’t really want to go down the route of adding other lights to the light sabres because that negates the need for the obscure lighting, and these renders are supposed to be exploring the possibilities of using this quick and easy glow effect… that at the moment for me isn’t being so quick… or easy. grin
Though the one with just the light sabres was really quick and really easy (and not noisy at all).

But really, the most puzzling part for me is that even at 256RPP, this scene renders in less than an hour which is remarkably quick for a scene with TA, a high poly model with high res textures, bump maps etc fill lights and soft shadows.
I’m going to go back to the first 30 minute video and see if ‘how it works’ gives me any more ideas (I did watch it but at that point most of it was beyond me, having got to grips with it a bit, It may now make more sense)... Maybe I can approach setting up the scene differently and still getting the balance of light and glow effect another way… But yes if all else fails, I can take Vicky off and send the file to you… Ahhh don’t you just love the internet… cheese

The speed is the blessing of doing away with a whole raft of additional calculations - TA rendering does not need to do any shadow calculation at all because it deals with the passage of rays crudely as photons so the shadows “emerge” from the method.  So if an answer can be found without direct lighting, it is - as you have noted - pleasingly swift.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 07:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 647 ]
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Noodling around with obscure lighting.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 648 ]
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The ManifoldLab Plugin for Wings has some pretty fancy shape extruders.
I abused yet again Horos Lake.hdri with soft shadows My longest render time ever, 12 minutes.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 649 ]
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David Brinnen - 25 November 2012 03:31 AM

Dan, lighting looks good, but the render time does not surprise me.  You can create TA light sources which behave like spot lights, this in some ways will save time, but the smaller you make them the greater source of noise they become and increasing the RPP seems to be the only way to overcome that issue.

Mark, if you are using TA optimisation in the IBL (which I suspect you are), then one thing to try, just out of interest, is disable the Bryce sun, set the RPP of your render down to 4 and see just how much light (and what “kind “of light) is being contributed by your HDRI settings alone.  Then switch the backdrop off and with a fully black sky and HDRI effect set to zero.  Turn the sun back on.  And render with 4 RPP again to see what the sun is providing.  I often make this kind of check to see if my light sources are plausible.

Rareth, interesting render.  I’m not really aware of the capabilities of Poser so it is difficult to comment.

As a bit of light relief from battling with skin settings…

David you’re doing a great job as always,  sub surface scattering is hard to pull off and your renders are looking good. 
Like you I have been trying to get Human figures to render properly in Bryce, but was having much less success.  so I went the other route to try and get Bryce into Poser (I prefer it over DAZ Studio). 

 

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Posted: 25 November 2012 09:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 650 ]
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Rareth - 24 November 2012 01:42 PM

ok redid the lastest sunset scene in different colors and a tad darker, then I went and used it as a background in poser.
I like how the terrain I used as water came out, I need to remember to save it as an object.

Looks good although I liked the colors of the first one you did too, this one is a bit too orangy for my tastes but hey, my tastes aren’t the standard now are they? smile

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Posted: 25 November 2012 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 651 ]
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TheSavage64 - 25 November 2012 03:31 AM

Titled: Definitely Not Darth

I don’t know, looks like Darth Vixen to me. smile

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Posted: 25 November 2012 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 652 ]
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David Brinnen - 25 November 2012 03:31 AM

Mark, if you are using TA optimisation in the IBL (which I suspect you are), then one thing to try, just out of interest, is disable the Bryce sun, set the RPP of your render down to 4 and see just how much light (and what “kind “of light) is being contributed by your HDRI settings alone.  Then switch the backdrop off and with a fully black sky and HDRI effect set to zero.  Turn the sun back on.  And render with 4 RPP again to see what the sun is providing.  I often make this kind of check to see if my light sources are plausible.

I wasn’t using it intentionally but yes TA optimization is checked in the IBL section of the skylab settings. I’m not sure what these images tell me, other then the HDRI doesn’t seem to be adding much light (although intensity is fairly low at just 20) but I followed your suggestion and did the renders below using the settings you specified. The first is with the sun disabled and RPP at 4. The second is with the sun on, HDRI background off, HDRI effect set to zero and the sky fully black rendered at 4 RPP. The third is the scene done as it was originally. I thru that one in because I didn’t save the original scene and I wanted you to be able to compare the two renders you reccommended to the same scene in a final draft version with all the settings as they were and RPP at 256.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 653 ]
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LordHardDriven - 25 November 2012 10:34 AM
David Brinnen - 25 November 2012 03:31 AM

Mark, if you are using TA optimisation in the IBL (which I suspect you are), then one thing to try, just out of interest, is disable the Bryce sun, set the RPP of your render down to 4 and see just how much light (and what “kind “of light) is being contributed by your HDRI settings alone.  Then switch the backdrop off and with a fully black sky and HDRI effect set to zero.  Turn the sun back on.  And render with 4 RPP again to see what the sun is providing.  I often make this kind of check to see if my light sources are plausible.

I wasn’t using it intentionally but yes TA optimization is checked in the IBL section of the skylab settings. I’m not sure what these images tell me, other then the HDRI doesn’t seem to be adding much light (although intensity is fairly low at just 20) but I followed your suggestion and did the renders below using the settings you specified. The first is with the sun disabled and RPP at 4. The second is with the sun on, HDRI background off, HDRI effect set to zero and the sky fully black rendered at 4 RPP. The third is the scene done as it was originally. I thru that one in because I didn’t save the original scene and I wanted you to be able to compare the two renders you reccommended to the same scene in a final draft version with all the settings as they were and RPP at 256.

What is says is that you could potentially rebalance your light to enhance the lighting effect and produce a more photo-realistic final render.

Here is what you could do if you wanted to experiment.

With the sun turned off, increase the HDRI effect value until the chicken is lit at about the same level as default grey.  To achieve this put a fully white sphere in your scene and tweak up the effect until it measures the same as default grey 126,126,126 rgb.

Then turn off the HDRI as before and set the sun on so that on the bright side of the sphere is about default grey.

Then turn back on your HDRI lighting and you should have about normal light but you should see that you now have some light in what was before very dark shadow regions.

In theory…  that’s the theory.  Only, if you want to experiment.  Don’t feel like I am nagging you are anything. wink

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Posted: 25 November 2012 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 654 ]
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eireann.sg - 25 November 2012 08:14 AM

The ManifoldLab Plugin for Wings has some pretty fancy shape extruders.
I abused yet again Horos Lake.hdri with soft shadows My longest render time ever, 12 minutes.

Eireann, looks good!  Even there is some optical illusion since the backgound seems bent when looking at the model and straightens out when looking at the background - or I need new glasses?

Plodding on with the SSS experiments.  Patched in the hair again to save render time.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 655 ]
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@TheSavage64 - I like your laser swords. Look really good.


@dan - that’s a great render. I particularly like the JukeBox at right.


@Rareth - your sunset scene improves. Where’s the light comming from at the lady? It looks like a studio shot from a photographer.


@David - the one on p43 looks good as far as specularity is concerned. The previous one (p 42) made me think of translucency. Is there a way? Rashad once elaborated on the ears and nostrils that there should be some translucency if the light shines through.

And the landscape is great.

The face on this page looks a bit pale.


@eireann.sg - I like the snake-like render.


@LordHardDriven - I think something is wrong with the HDRI used. Are you sure it generates more than ambient light? The backdrop looks distored as well.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 04:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 656 ]
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Horo - 25 November 2012 01:50 PM


@Rareth - your sunset scene improves. Where’s the light comming from at the lady? It looks like a studio shot from a photographer.

 

Horo the lighting is coming from an IBL light I generated from Bryce to produce the indirect lighting I have a distance light in the scene providing the sunlight, and I have a bluewhite fill light acting as a camera flash,

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Posted: 25 November 2012 04:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 657 ]
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I just wanted to congratulate Dan on yet another fine Peasant Girl render.
Nice one, Dan, cool font as well!

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Posted: 25 November 2012 06:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 658 ]
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David Brinnen - 25 November 2012 01:36 PM
eireann.sg - 25 November 2012 08:14 AM

The ManifoldLab Plugin for Wings has some pretty fancy shape extruders.
I abused yet again Horos Lake.hdri with soft shadows My longest render time ever, 12 minutes.

Eireann, looks good!  Even there is some optical illusion since the backgound seems bent when looking at the model and straightens out when looking at the background - or I need new glasses?

 

Want me to make an educated guess ? LMAO smile
I have used deformed glass spheres before which I put around the camera to get distorted images, but here I left that out.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 11:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 659 ]
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Horo - 25 November 2012 01:50 PM

@LordHardDriven - I think something is wrong with the HDRI used. Are you sure it generates more than ambient light? The backdrop looks distored as well.

Well the HDRI is from a product called Small Place HDRI (http://www.daz3d.com/shop/small-place-hdri) which was sold as primarily a Carrara prooduct but also included were HDRI files for both DS and Bryce. Now the default position for the HDRI didn’t have a good surface area showing in the foreground to place the turkey on so it looked like it was sitting there. So I turned it around until I found the toaster oven with some space in front of it. This seemed like the only really good spot in the scene for placing the turkey but it also appears to be where the image wraps around to meet itself and as you noticed the tile doesn’t line up quite right. I’m not sure if that is considered sloppy work on the vendors part or this is normal when going to the opposite side from which the HDRI was meant to be viewed? I didn’t really care that much because the image I made from it was more or less just playing around.

As far as what it generates I’m really not sure of anything as I’m still struggling to get a handle on all this lighting stuff, mainly because I haven’t had much time to really delve into any tutorials or the mentoring DVD since my wife broke her leg and I’ve had to take over her responsibilities as well as continue with my own and be her caregiver. All I know was I wanted to make a quick scene with an appropriate setting for the turkey. I knew using an HDRI backdrop would be the quickest way to achieve that result rather the say importing in the kitchen or dinning room scene of the Dream Home by Jack Tomlin/Redhouse Designs. I had hope to use that HDRI I’ve seen David used called Kitchen Table but apparently I don’t have the product where the backdrop quality version of that file can be found. There are some blurry lo rez versions of that particular HDRI that came with the Tileable High Resolution Terrains and Matched Materials product but they’re too blurry to use as a backdrop. Fortunately the Small Place HDRI product had an appropriate HDRI to use as a backdrop but that was the only other HDRI I own that might have worked and so I couldn’t be too picky about it.

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Posted: 26 November 2012 12:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 660 ]
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LordHardDriven - 25 November 2012 11:53 PM
Horo - 25 November 2012 01:50 PM

@LordHardDriven - I think something is wrong with the HDRI used. Are you sure it generates more than ambient light? The backdrop looks distored as well.

Well the HDRI is from a product called Small Place HDRI (http://www.daz3d.com/shop/small-place-hdri) which was sold as primarily a Carrara prooduct but also included were HDRI files for both DS and Bryce. Now the default position for the HDRI didn’t have a good surface area showing in the foreground to place the turkey on so it looked like it was sitting there. So I turned it around until I found the toaster oven with some space in front of it. This seemed like the only really good spot in the scene for placing the turkey but it also appears to be where the image wraps around to meet itself and as you noticed the tile doesn’t line up quite right. I’m not sure if that is considered sloppy work on the vendors part or this is normal when going to the opposite side from which the HDRI was meant to be viewed? I didn’t really care that much because the image I made from it was more or less just playing around..

HDRI itself isnt difficult to do.
Whats tricky though is to make enough HDRI images and stitch them so together so that you end up with a 360 degree view.

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