Digital Art Zone

 
   
73 of 100
73
Show Us Your Bryce Renders! Part 2
Posted: 09 December 2012 02:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1081 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3554
Joined  2004-10-01
TheSavage64 - 08 December 2012 11:17 PM

Well I got home from tonight’s gig and decided to continue with the sheath for the knife… So I added a bit more detailing… luckily it doesn’t need covering in snow. grin

Pam’s snowy renders are looking really good, I think the trick with snow is to have no detail in the material. Snow has such a high reflective index that all detail within the material is easily bleached out by any light hitting it… Having said that, David’s last sample with the blob sat on top of the sphere would make a fairly convincing polystyrene.

As for the renders of gems… they are all looking really nice. I’ve been wondering for some time if the refraction of Bryce materials would react in the same way as in the real world… and if you shine a white light onto a transparent prism, would the light split into it’s spectrum colours?
Maybe I’ll have a look tomorrow.

I’ve also been wondering if you can get a light source to accurately simulate how a laser acts and reacts in the real world?

No, the prism doesn’t work. I’ve experimented on this quite a while ago (which doesn’t exclude the possibility that somebody comes up with a smart idea eventually). You can use Refraction to create a magnifying glass (or a telescope) using transparent 2D faces. At refraction 300, you get a x3 magnification. 2D faces can be stacked to increase magnification.

I think the prism doesn’t work for the same reason light is not reflected in a mirror.

Sheath looks great!

 Signature 

**  [ Stuff by David Brinnen and myself**  [ My DAZ 3D Gallery**  [ My Website**  OPC 4565 **

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 06:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1082 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

@David
But if you’re having to do two passes and to use masks, surely you’d be better off using the in-scattering trick?
Two identical objects: one Standard and one Volumetric.

Should be ideal for snow because snow has a hard edge in real life, not a soft one, and it looks a bit like milk etc the way light scatters through it.  I can’t test it but I’m buggered if I know why that wouldn’t be ideal for snow because you’d have both the hard edge you need, and the ability to dilute the opacity towards the edges with great precision!


@Dave
Liking the render overall but I disagree about the stitches, I think they look too vibrant and are too uniform (almost printed on).  If you were to dull them down, cover them with little Toruses set into the holder (as you’re doing it all in Bryce), and randomise the size, shape , and rotation of each torus slightly, that might improve the stitches.

Regards the prism thing, I have to agree with Horo there, unless some wise-ass figures out a trick then I don’t think you’ll be doing it in Bryce.  Such things are normally the domain of physically-based renderers like Octane etc.

Enter the wise-ass (*groan*):

Me being being a self-confessed wise-ass I’m going to explain what’s going on in my head right now, and how I would attempt such a thing, but I’ve not tested it and it’s probably absolute bollocks.

So for starters, you want to be able to see something (the coloured light) that isn’t normally seen because Bryce doesn’t let you see the angles or paths of the rays.  There’s only one way I can think of to get Bryce to reveal where her rays travel (untested).  Find out if shining a spotlight through Volumetric World will let you see a focused beam of light shining through it.  If, for example you set a spot light to a very sharp and narrow beam, and it penetrated some dense scene-fog in a nice controllable way, that should give you and idea of how you might get Bryce to reveal where her rays are travelling through the scene.

If it works, then try firing the beam through a crystal prism in the same scene and see if the light in the fog comes out at a different angle.  If it does, problem solved because that means Bryce can calculate refracted light through volumes (and that’s what’s needed), but if it doesn’t, I haven’t a clue what else to try.  Like I said, probably absolute bollocks but I can’t test it right now without an installation.  I’d say there’s a 75% chance of being disappointed.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1083 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2600
Joined  2004-07-06

Len, however, as with the fluffy wool material, volumetric materials do not work with either metaspheres or mesh objects - and they don’t like to overlap.  So while what you suggest is true, it’s not really practical as things stand without some tweaks to the Bryce material properties - which has been proposed.

Here’s a render of an example scene from Horo and mines - next but one - up and coming products - a sequel if you will to The Treppenhalle Set of metals.  The next next one should be the filters I mentioned earlier, but…  this happens to be what I’m working on today.

Image Attachments
Example_scene_5.jpg
 Signature 

that Bryce Tutorials Info and this Products made by Horo and myself and a link to my gallery at DAZ 3D

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1084 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

I didn’t realise the bug extended to blends between Metaspheres as well, bloody hell.
I thought it was just soft edges like clouds etc, ah well.

Anyway, nice crisp-looking render.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1085 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1619
Joined  2007-12-10
pumeco - 09 December 2012 06:02 AM

@Dave
Liking the render overall but I disagree about the stitches, I think they look too vibrant and are too uniform (almost printed on).  If you were to dull them down, cover them with little Toruses set into the holder (as you’re doing it all in Bryce), and randomise the size, shape , and rotation of each torus slightly, that might improve the stitches.

The stitches already are geometry (they started life as the intersection of Rashad’s NURBS Cubes with a negative cut out to make them sort of staple shaped, they then have a cotton material with twisty bump that I made) and if you look at the output of a sewing machine, you’ll see that it delivers completely constant sized stitches that run in a straight line. smile

As for the colour… Well last night, I decided that a knife with a shiny wooden handle that has a reflective metal blade would more likely come in a tan coloured sheath, so I started working on a tan coloured leather version, so the stitches won’t be so obvious, having said that, the colour of the stitches at the moment is harking back to the time when all jeans and other strongly stitched fabrics all used the same type of thread, which was only ever available in that golden yellow colour… that’s my excuse anyway.

pumeco - 09 December 2012 06:02 AM

Regards the prism thing, I have to agree with Horo there, unless some wise-ass figures out a trick then I don’t think you’ll be doing it in Bryce.  Such things are normally the domain of physically-based renderers like Octane etc.

Enter the wise-ass (*groan*):

Me being being a self-confessed wise-ass I’m going to explain what’s going on in my head right now, and how I would attempt such a thing, but I’ve not tested it and it’s probably absolute bollocks.

So for starters, you want to be able to see something (the coloured light) that isn’t normally seen because Bryce doesn’t let you see the angles or paths of the rays.  There’s only one way I can think of to get Bryce to reveal where her rays travel (untested).  Find out if shining a spotlight through Volumetric World will let you see a focused beam of light shining through it.  If, for example you set a spot light to a very sharp and narrow beam, and it penetrated some dense scene-fog in a nice controllable way, that should give you and idea of how you might get Bryce to reveal where her rays are travelling through the scene.

If it works, then try firing the beam through a crystal prism in the same scene and see if the light in the fog comes out at a different angle.  If it does, problem solved because that means Bryce can calculate refracted light through volumes (and that’s what’s needed), but if it doesn’t, I haven’t a clue what else to try.  Like I said, probably absolute bollocks but I can’t test it right now without an installation.  I’d say there’s a 75% chance of being disappointed.

I’ve been playing around with this this morning… and got nowhere (though I didn’t try the volumetric world because it takes an age to render).
Setting a parallel light on the ground allows the beam of light to show up in the same way as you would expect with a volumetric fog. The light beam behaved as Horo reported, the light doesn’t bend when it hits a glass prism and a light beam doesn’t reflect off a mirrored surface… so my thoughts which were originally to set up a complex laser beam type render with the beam going through prisms and being reflected off mirrors looks like a non starter in Bryce.

Image Attachments
StitchDetail.jpg
 Signature 

I’ve got nothing of my own to promote, no models, no tutorials, no website, nothin’, nada, nill, nowt.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 08:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1086 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

The stitches look loads better now that I’ve seen a close-up of them, I just thought they looked too perfect from a distance (still do).

Regards the prism, that’s why I said to try Volumetric World, it doesn’t work exactly the same as Volumetric Materials and might have given an opportunity to see what happens with the rays.  The idea was that if it had worked, it could be inverted and used that way.  But even then there would still have been need for post-work to get the end result.  The idea was mainly just to be able to see what the rays are doing.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 08:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1087 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  927
Joined  2003-10-09
David Brinnen - 09 December 2012 02:29 AM

Dave, the stitching is an excellent touch, your dedication to adding detail has paid off.

Yes I agree about the polystyrene snow… Maybe snow is another instance where displacement would help?  But if I had the choice, I’d rather have access to SSS.  Anyway, along these lines, Dwsel style, I’ve tried to fake the effect of having material specific blurring by combining several renders with the aid of masks.  I’m still not overly impressed with my results, but it is something else to think about.

Now it looks like a blurry white version of the loose insulation in my attic.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1088 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1315
Joined  2006-08-19
pumeco - 09 December 2012 08:49 AM

The stitches look loads better now that I’ve seen a close-up of them, I just thought they looked too perfect from a distance (still do).

Regards the prism, that’s why I said to try Volumetric World, it doesn’t work exactly the same as Volumetric Materials and might have given an opportunity to see what happens with the rays.  The idea was that if it had worked, it could be inverted and used that way.  But even then there would still have been need for post-work to get the end result.  The idea was mainly just to be able to see what the rays are doing.

volumetric doesn’t work out,  Light is still not reflected, and there seems to be a bug where with volumetrics turned on infinite lights go through solid objects.  its weird, need to keep fidding, I probably changed a setting I shouldn’t have, although I did learn my lession about turning ambience off and how it affects shadows.

 Signature 

http://rarethdigitalmusings.blogspot.com/

http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/users/35801

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1089 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  118
Joined  2008-11-17
Rareth - 08 December 2012 09:03 PM
Horo - 08 December 2012 01:25 PM

@dwsel_ - the lapidary site - isn’t that Rosemary Reagan? She’s the expert.

Diamond from the Lapidary site, also tried some rendering tips that were on there..  I don’t have regular photoshop just elements, and I am not all that familiar with it, also have Gimp, and any skills I had in that have vanished so I’m not sure how to do compsites, so I need ot track down some tutorials for it. but, in the mean time, I got a gem to turn out like this..

Should be possible to composite in PS Elements as well.

Compositing from RGB layers goes like this:
1. take your rendering that should make red channel, create a layer over it filled with 255,0,0 colour, change that layer blending mode to multiply, merge layers.
2. do the same for green (0,255,0 colour), and blue (0,0,255)
3. place on top of your red leyer the green and the blue one, change their blending modes to ‘lighten’ or ‘linear dodge (add)’
4. merge the image

It should do the job.

If you have problems with this technique just drop me an email or pm.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 09:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1090 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1315
Joined  2006-08-19
dwsel_ - 09 December 2012 08:56 AM
Rareth - 08 December 2012 09:03 PM
Horo - 08 December 2012 01:25 PM

@dwsel_ - the lapidary site - isn’t that Rosemary Reagan? She’s the expert.

Diamond from the Lapidary site, also tried some rendering tips that were on there..  I don’t have regular photoshop just elements, and I am not all that familiar with it, also have Gimp, and any skills I had in that have vanished so I’m not sure how to do compsites, so I need ot track down some tutorials for it. but, in the mean time, I got a gem to turn out like this..

Should be possible to composite in PS Elements as well.

Compositing from RGB layers goes like this:
1. take your rendering that should make red channel, create a layer over it filled with 255,0,0 colour, change that layer blending mode to multiply, merge layers.
2. do the same for green (0,255,0 colour), and blue (0,0,255)
3. place on top of your red leyer the green and the blue one, change their blending modes to ‘lighten’ or ‘linear dodge (add)’
4. merge the image

It should do the job.

If you have problems with this technique just drop me an email or pm.

thank you I will have to give that a go.

 Signature 

http://rarethdigitalmusings.blogspot.com/

http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/users/35801

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1091 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12
Rareth - 09 December 2012 08:53 AM

volumetric doesn’t work out,  Light is still not reflected, and there seems to be a bug where with volumetrics turned on infinite lights go through solid objects.  its weird, need to keep fidding, I probably changed a setting I shouldn’t have, although I did learn my lession about turning ambience off and how it affects shadows.

Cheers Rareth, bit of a bummer then.

Bit of a shock to hear about the light traveling through the objects as well, did you have the Shadow Intensity set right?

BTW, does anyone know what the “installed” minimum requirement is for Bryce 7 Pro in size?  I might be able to delete a few demo programs I have to make space if it’s not too much.  I might be able to install the program without the extras assuming they fixed the material crash that used to occur if you failed to install the materials as well.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1092 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

Nevermind, downloading now.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1093 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  927
Joined  2003-10-09
TheSavage64 - 09 December 2012 08:10 AM
pumeco - 09 December 2012 06:02 AM

@Dave
Liking the render overall but I disagree about the stitches, I think they look too vibrant and are too uniform (almost printed on).  If you were to dull them down, cover them with little Toruses set into the holder (as you’re doing it all in Bryce), and randomise the size, shape , and rotation of each torus slightly, that might improve the stitches.

The stitches already are geometry (they started life as the intersection of Rashad’s NURBS Cubes with a negative cut out to make them sort of staple shaped, they then have a cotton material with twisty bump that I made) and if you look at the output of a sewing machine, you’ll see that it delivers completely constant sized stitches that run in a straight line. smile

As for the colour… Well last night, I decided that a knife with a shiny wooden handle that has a reflective metal blade would more likely come in a tan coloured sheath, so I started working on a tan coloured leather version, so the stitches won’t be so obvious, having said that, the colour of the stitches at the moment is harking back to the time when all jeans and other strongly stitched fabrics all used the same type of thread, which was only ever available in that golden yellow colour… that’s my excuse anyway.

What would really sell the stiches for me would be if there was a slight indication of pulling the material together, little depressions where the stitching passes thru the material it’s stiching together. The way it is now it looks like the stiching is there more for show then to actually bind the material together. As it is now it’s as if the layers of leather are completely rigid with absolutely no give or flexibility and the stiching is unable to pull the material together any more then the pieces just being laid on top of each other. Below are some example images that show the look I’m trying to describe

Image Attachments
leather-knife-sheath.jpgholster.jpgleather-stitching-detail.jpgLeatherStitching.png
Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1094 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  118
Joined  2008-11-17

@David Brinnen:
That latest snow composite from you indeed looks like a styrofoam a bit - just like somebody noticed. I think the main blame is the bumpmap here - it’s very regular and deep - something wider at the major scale and something smaller for the shiny effects (for example fine noise in phase) would look better. I’d be more after ‘the leatherette’ cracks like in TheSavage64’s recent render. Anyway I like the colouration of the snow.

Here’s my try at compositing snow from layers:
- input channels (diffuse, specular, refraction, reflection)
- input masks (camera incidence, depth, snow mask)
- finished channels that’s been composited
- the result of composition (left) compared with one pass render that took significant time to render fully (right)

While compositing of refraction I took advantage of angle incidence thinking ‘snow should be thinner and more translucent near the edges’. Reflection channel has already angle incidence baked in via metallicity setting (but it’s not suitable way of generating it for anything else other than reflection). For other uses angle incidence channel = white diffuse material + point light with no attenuation at the location of camera.

Image Attachments
diffuse_specular_refraction_reflection.pngcam_incidence_depth_objmask.pnglayers.pngcompare.png
Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2012 09:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1095 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3554
Joined  2004-10-01
pumeco - 09 December 2012 09:10 AM

BTW, does anyone know what the “installed” minimum requirement is for Bryce 7 Pro in size?  I might be able to delete a few demo programs I have to make space if it’s not too much.  I might be able to install the program without the extras assuming they fixed the material crash that used to occur if you failed to install the materials as well.

You should be fine with 745 MB installed. That’s what I have from my PLE installation.

 

 Signature 

**  [ Stuff by David Brinnen and myself**  [ My DAZ 3D Gallery**  [ My Website**  OPC 4565 **

Profile
 
 
   
73 of 100
73