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Carrara 9…DAZ, I’m begging you.
Posted: 17 October 2012 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Hi,

I’m not sure what I’m missing here but C8.5 pro works most of the time for me. The occasional bug re: object editing means I have to save regularly or risk wasted time.

I spend most of my time trying to simplify (to speed up rendering and load/save times) due to the large file sizes I tend to work with (many many replicated objects). So perhaps I don’t go into the dark corners of the clever stuff as much as some on this message board.

One positive note for C7 users holding on to that old version - C8 renders much quicker on anything complex. I would upgrade. As the blurb says in some cases twice as fast - I can testify to that.

I am an animator and I’m grateful for this speed increase. With any luck some more speed tweaks in C9 would make life easier still.

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Posted: 18 October 2012 06:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Muphasa - 13 October 2012 04:17 PM

So I downloaded some demos of of 3d packages and Cinema 4d has impressed me a lot for its easy of use. It reminds me of Carrara in many ways. Yes it is $3600.00
[..]
For me thought I probably will not wait for 8.5 to make up my mind, I really like C4D and it is a lot like Carrara in many respects and it is rock solid. When I get on to my computer to make whatever I have decided to learn that day I dont want to sit and fight the software. I just want it to work without the hassle. The biggest drawback is content. It would be nice to be able to use all the content I have inside C4D. I have heard of Interposer, I will see how that goes.

Hi Muphasa smile
FWIW, Cinema 4D costs about $5100 here in Norway, if that is any comfort to you..
Nevertheless, I purchased it in May. I also purchased modo 601. So I spent very much money to “avoid” Carrara, which I have used 4 years now. First, about modo, it certainly is a superb tool for professional modelers, if you can live with a hopelessly unwieldy user interface. But for me it was a mistake, I want to sell my modo license..
Cinema 4D on the other hand, was like entering a totally new world. The user interface is outstanding, it can’t get better than that. You can do a lot in C4D, if you want flying logos, exploding text, animated spheres, cubes etc etc - it has it all. Adjusting movement paths is a joy, compared to the Carrara hassles and “specialties”. Most important - it is easy to jump back and forth between keypoints, even in complex animations. In Carrara, this becomes a nightmare if you have animation clips involved.

But - there is a BIG SHORTCOMING in Cinema 4D. Animated characters. If you want to do that, you probably need another software, like Carrara :D. Interposer might help you, I have tested it, and don’t like it.  Cinema 4D + Interposer?? Well, Carrara is better. In general, for hobbyists and makers of non-profit multimedia like me, Carrara would be the perfect choice. What made me cough up all that money for Cinema 4D was my frustration regarding the super-awkward user interface in Carrara. I could spend hours tweaking and adjusting even the smallest parts of an animation, because “strange” things happened, and I had to go through a 17-step tedious process of clicking, clicking and clicking again, just to get hold of the same property I had tweaked 30 seconds ago. In Cinema 4D, I can open all kinds of property windows (panels) and tuck them away on another screen, and have them there, at hand, whenever I need them. And my customized workplace can of course be stored.

So what do I have now? I have Carrara for character animations and shudder every time I must use it because of the user interface. And I have Cinema 4D which is a joy to use, for everything 3D except character animation. And I have modo 601 collecting dust in the corner..
Maya is perhaps what I need - but I’ll have to wait to win in LOTTO..
There is yet another option - Carrara with an overhauled user interface.. I also have daz Studio, but the user interface is horrible to say the least, only behind the worst possible user interfaces there is - Reallusion iClone and CrazyTalk.

-Ingvar

 

 

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Posted: 18 October 2012 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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... and then there’s the 8 bits per channel limitation, which in my opinion, would make Carrara rendered output useless for some compositing requirements.

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Posted: 18 October 2012 06:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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ingvarai - 18 October 2012 06:10 AM
Muphasa - 13 October 2012 04:17 PM

So I downloaded some demos of of 3d packages and Cinema 4d has impressed me a lot for its easy of use. It reminds me of Carrara in many ways. Yes it is $3600.00
[..]
For me thought I probably will not wait for 8.5 to make up my mind, I really like C4D and it is a lot like Carrara in many respects and it is rock solid. When I get on to my computer to make whatever I have decided to learn that day I dont want to sit and fight the software. I just want it to work without the hassle. The biggest drawback is content. It would be nice to be able to use all the content I have inside C4D. I have heard of Interposer, I will see how that goes.

Hi Muphasa smile
FWIW, Cinema 4D costs about $5100 here in Norway, if that is any comfort to you..
Nevertheless, I purchased it in May. I also purchased modo 601. So I spent very much money to “avoid” Carrara, which I have used 4 years now. First, about modo, it certainly is a superb tool for professional modelers, if you can live with a hopelessly unwieldy user interface. But for me it was a mistake, I want to sell my modo license..
Cinema 4D on the other hand, was like entering a totally new world. The user interface is outstanding, it can’t get better than that. You can do a lot in C4D, if you want flying logos, exploding text, animated spheres, cubes etc etc - it has it all. Adjusting movement paths is a joy, compared to the Carrara hassles and “specialties”. Most important - it is easy to jump back and forth between keypoints, even in complex animations. In Carrara, this becomes a nightmare if you have animation clips involved.

But - there is a BIG SHORTCOMING in Cinema 4D. Animated characters. If you want to do that, you probably need another software, like Carrara :D. Interposer might help you, I have tested it, and don’t like it.  Cinema 4D + Interposer?? Well, Carrara is better. In general, for hobbyists and makers of non-profit multimedia like me, Carrara would be the perfect choice. What made me cough up all that money for Cinema 4D was my frustration regarding the super-awkward user interface in Carrara. I could spend hours tweaking and adjusting even the smallest parts of an animation, because “strange” things happened, and I had to go through a 17-step tedious process of clicking, clicking and clicking again, just to get hold of the same property I had tweaked 30 seconds ago. In Cinema 4D, I can open all kinds of property windows (panels) and tuck them away on another screen, and have them there, at hand, whenever I need them. And my customized workplace can of course be stored.

So what do I have now? I have Carrara for character animations and shudder every time I must use it because of the user interface. And I have Cinema 4D which is a joy to use, for everything 3D except character animation. And I have modo 601 collecting dust in the corner..
Maya is perhaps what I need - but I’ll have to wait to win in LOTTO..
There is yet another option - Carrara with an overhauled user interface.. I also have daz Studio, but the user interface is horrible to say the least, only behind the worst possible user interfaces there is - Reallusion iClone and CrazyTalk.

-Ingvar

 

 

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Posted: 18 October 2012 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I rather would like Daz to take its time developing a working and bug-free Carrara.

Yep, certain features like liquids and dynamic cloth objects (like in Blender) would be extremely cool.
Or realistic skies and atmospheres like in Vue… Though, it’s better when existing bugs get fixed first.

What good are new features, when you can’t do much, because the program keeps crashing or your work gets messed up because something doesn’t work properly.

Besides, I have to wonder why so many people think Carrara is so hard to figure out? I went from Poser to Carrara, a real leap of fait, and it was an extremely good experience.
I was surprised how easy Carrara was in comparison to Poser. Less restrictive and more flexible.
Honestly, I do not regret moving to Carrara just one second. I can do so many things with it, that weren’t possible in Poser or DazStudio. Even posing is easier much easier und more flexible.

 

 

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Posted: 18 October 2012 07:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Rhiana - 18 October 2012 07:02 AM

Besides, I have to wonder why so many people think Carrara is so hard to figure out?

I myself found Carrara easy to understand. And it indeed has some very nice features. The assembly room is almost perfect, IMO.
Mostly, it is the timeline that bugs me. And mostly, there are two major issues I have with Carrara:

1) When you add a motion clip to the project, carrara will stop on each and every keyframe when invoking “next keyframe” and “previous keyframe”, even if the selected object in question only has a couple of keyframes. And even when this clip is not used at all, its mere precence creates this “feature”.

2) Editing certain properties, in the modeling room, in the assembly room, on the timeline - you have to open the same dialog box and click your way to the property you want to change. Each and every time.  It does not remember its previous size (if it is resizable at all), it does not remember ist previous position, it does not remember at what node in what branch in what tree you adjusted something on your last visit.

These two issues would be simple to correct. And it would make Carrara much more user friendly.
I made my last Carrara animation i April, I hope it will not be my last, but currently it is. An mainly because of the two items mentioned above, I just spent too much time because of these.

-Ingvar

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Posted: 18 October 2012 07:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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ingvarai - 18 October 2012 07:20 AM

I myself found Carrara easy to understand. And it indeed has some very nice features. The assembly room is almost perfect, IMO.
Mostly, it is the timeline that bugs me. And mostly, there are two major issues I have with Carrara:

1) When you add a motion clip to the project, carrara will stop on each and every keyframe when invoking “next keyframe” and “previous keyframe”, even if the selected object in question only has a couple of keyframes. And even when this clip is not used at all, its mere precence creates this “feature”.

2) Editing certain properties, in the modeling room, in the assembly room, on the timeline - you have to open the same dialog box and click your way to the property you want to change. Each and every time.  It does not remember its previous size (if it is resizable at all), it does not remember ist previous position, it does not remember at what node in what branch in what tree you adjusted something on your last visit.

These two issues would be simple to correct. And it would make Carrara much more user friendly.
I made my last Carrara animation i April, I hope it will not be my last, but currently it is. An mainly because of the two items mentioned above, I just spent too much time because of these.

-Ingvar

That sounds really time consuming. I never created animated clips, because I always dreaded what you wrote about.

That reminds me of another Feature that should be implemented or perfected in Carrara, would be a Feature that allows me to edit a particular shader attribute of multiple shaders within one object at once.

 

 

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Posted: 18 October 2012 07:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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... double post…

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Posted: 18 October 2012 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Rhiana - 18 October 2012 07:55 AM

a Feature that allows me to edit a particular shader attribute of multiple shaders within one object at once.

 

That is a REFERENCE SHADER. You just need to know how to set it up. It’s not difficult. Allows you to control entire shaders or just a single channel across multiple shaders

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Posted: 18 October 2012 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 18 October 2012 09:10 AM

That is a REFERENCE SHADER. You just need to know how to set it up. It’s not difficult. Allows you to control entire shaders or just a single channel across multiple shaders

Ah thanks. Will check on that. Must have missed it when I went through Mark Bremmer’s Tutorials.

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Posted: 18 October 2012 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Personally, I truly agree with the initial message Kodiak is asking.
I also enjoy the fact that the devs are being given the time to sort out the new Genesis thing. I may or may not end up using Genesis - I guess it all depends on how efficiently it loads/saves, etc., in the end. But I believe that the entire creation of Genesis is genius and am glad to see the company recognizing Carrara in their future (or they would probably have had to drop it in favor of DS). The development of this 8.5 update has been quite amazing in many ways that (I think) should end up making Carrara a better experience for everyone using it.

I keep finding that, stuff that would absolutely bum me out before, has become resolved throughout this beta. Little things - but noticeably better. My S4 injections are now working on the older main character. There was a work-around in the old forum, but it required that I rebuild her again from V4 scratch - now I won’t have to do that. When I save in the director camera, it opens in the directors camera - little things - in addition to all of the truly grand improvements they’ve made. I’d not last a day in C7 now without jumping right back here! smile

I agree that with some well thought out improvements made in just the right spots, Carrara is a true contender - especially for the amateur film-makers out there. But I’d also like to point out that, the developers working on this bad-boy suite of tools are doing a stupendous job of improving the software in a LOT more ways than their original intentions of adding Genesis to its ease-of-content implementation and that the jump from 7.2 to 8 was a very needed re-write to keep Carrara from having to be swept under the ol’ permanent rug of incompatibility! (Not to rip on C7 Pro - Loved that too!)

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Posted: 18 October 2012 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Dartanbeck - 18 October 2012 07:22 PM

I agree that with some well thought out improvements made in just the right spots, Carrara is a true contender - especially for the amateur film-makers out there.

This is what I want to use it for.  With affordable and effective motion capture solutions becoming available (iPisoft to mention one), I think we’re going to start seeing a lot more independent 3D movies in the near future.  With Carrara’s ability to use content, it’s a perfect tool for such projects.

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Posted: 20 October 2012 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Ok after playing with C4 this past week, I really love that software. It is powerful and easy to use. I did crash on me once but I cant remember what i was doing but it has an automated crash reporter and I sent it in. I like that great feature.

Now I am more convinced more than ever that if Carrara was rock solid like C4D in performance, it would be a powerhouse but as it stands I cant get the smallest of animations to render consistently as expected. Yes you can get some great results out of Carrara.

For example. I was trying to do a simple flyby of a tron car and exporting a depth map plus some others to see how useful they would be in Aftereffects. I first started out in C7 and found a bug where some of the extra passes would not export. I thought to try C8.5 and to my surprise the multi-pass bug I was encountering in C7 was fixed.

So now I am in C8.5 and render my file and all seems well. I exported my avi’s out and went into aftereffects. I noticed that the depth pass had odd frames rendered in the avi. Some of the frames would not have the same depth scale in them. This would show up as one frame having a different gray tone to the image than the previous frame and the frame after it. But the two surrounding frames would be consistent with each other. I am sorry but i was frustrated and deleted the project and started over. The next problem was that some of the depth map frames had no depth at all.


see pic of all black tron car.

I have included a depth pass from carrara when it is rendered correctly and a depth pass with C4D. The C4D is much better quality wise but Carrara is not too far behind. I mean it is still usable.

Carrara is in need of some polish. Kick out the bugs and bring other features up to date. The Multi pass render over all needs some polish like better/smoother image export and more predictable depth export. In C4D as other software package you can control the depth scale by modifying a setting on the render camera.

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Posted: 20 October 2012 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Muphasa,
Carrara and Cinema 4D cannot really be compared. Look at the price tag. They are two very different creatures. I myself have never had any of the issues you mention. My Carraras have been very solid, made very nice renderings. I have done alpha renders, match moving animations, using SynthEyes which exports to Carrara, physics and charcter animations.
For me - I am talking about what I need - i need just a few things improved regarding the user interface. The aforementioned animation clip bug fixed, and a more “modern” use of dialog boxes etc. Worth to mention support for the right mouse button, which now is almost totally absent. I do not expect though, and do not think it is feasible, to make Cararra look like X application and change totally.

Carrara is very good as it is. Genesis support is just interesting, and I am looking forward to the release of version 8.5. The renderings that Carrara make are more than good enough for my films and animations. I do the last polishing in After Effects in any case.

For me, and again I talk about my needs, small improvements would remove my main issue with Cararra: Currently it is too time consuming to make an animation because of the (in my opinion) awkward timeline.

-Ingvar

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Posted: 20 October 2012 03:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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As I understand it, DEPTH PASS will change depending on what is in the scene…. It is not a global function based on distance from the camera. Instead it is literally all the objects in the scene ( maybe in the field of view? ) with the closest to farthest defining the gradient….

To have a moving object that is changing depth, you would need a static object (like a plane) that is larger than any action in your scene… in otherwords, this large object would set the range of depth in your scene while the animated object is free to move within that range…

Maybe I am wrong… I have only used depth pass in stills, not animations.

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