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Carrara 9…DAZ, I’m begging you.
Posted: 12 October 2012 09:37 PM   [ Ignore ]
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OK, so 8.5 is apparently nearing release.  That means development on 9 will start in earnest, and I look forward to it.

DAZ, please think for a moment about what you potentially have with Carrara.  It is a powerful program that has one huge advantage over some of its “superiors”...the ability to use content easily.

Just imagine what Carrara would be like with some added features.  With an improved render engine (or the ability to use 2rd party engines like Lux), an updated particle system (current one is old, but not bad), a dynamic hair system that once again WORKS, the ability to “clothify” content clothing, and a few other things and Carrara could rival the best programs out there. I know adding these things isn’t simple, but that’s why you need to devote some more resources to Carrara.

I know, Carrara IS a great program, but it’s aging.  It NEEDS updates.  The fact that it can use content easily should not be undersold.  Imagine if you had a program with the power of Blender combined with Carrara’s content use.  The possibilities are great.

Of course, Blender has hundreds if not thousands of developers.  Carrara has what, four?  This is where DAZ’s problem lies.  The vision for Carrara’s future seems narrow. 

I understand that DAZ doesn’t make their money from software…they make it from content.  Still, how much more content would you sell if Carrara suddenly became a major production-quality suite?

PLEASE DAZ, I beg you…give Carrara some love.  Make it the great program it has the potential to be.

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Posted: 12 October 2012 11:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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So, your begging for Carrara 9 beta? Beta 8 is not even complete. Still waiting for the final of Carrara 8, while using Build 153.

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Posted: 13 October 2012 04:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Robo2010 - 12 October 2012 11:43 PM

So, your begging for Carrara 9 beta? Beta 8 is not even complete. Still waiting for the final of Carrara 8, while using Build 153.

He’s asking for DAZ to put some effort into C9 and not do the piss pore job they have done with 8.

 

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Posted: 13 October 2012 05:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I agree totally, Kodiak!... a lot of professional illustrators use carrara, for different reasons.. One of mine is the ability of carrara to handle heavy zbrush meshes, which seems to me unique… well, regards toi the other soft I’ve tried…
  but another modern render engine is necessary… actually, the render is too old, for professional use, and a lot of times I’m working in modo or cine4d, just because rendering glasses, or so on, is “under level” in C… it’s a pity, as all the program is really fine! and, contrary to a lot of posts here, I found it reasonnably stable, not so buggy… Not more than others, sure!

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Posted: 13 October 2012 06:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I used to think Carrara’s render engine was old, too, but what I now think is the problem are the presets or defaults are old. Sure, some more speed tweaks on reflections (soft reflections) would be very helpful, but I think if we could have some really nice presets out of the box it would be thought of much better. Tim Payne’s light sets would be a great addition (though I already own them - they would simplify things for others). I’ve seen some promo renders done in Carrara that are better than most of what I see out of other render engines - work by 3D Celebrity and Dimension Theory specifically. And I’ve read here and over on the OTOY site that the guys working on the Octane Render engine plugin for DAZ Studio want to make one for Carrara after they get that one out. And Wendy seems to be always finding ways of getting Carrara work into other programs so it’s not impossible.

People make a big deal out of some of the effects you can do in Blender like fire… but if you follow all the steps, it’s not really that easy. Some new pre-sets and maybe some tweaks and more documentation on the Carrara particle generator and we could do similar things. I think it takes more than a couple of people throwing up WIP videos which is most of what I find for Carrara. Age of Armour is an exception and he has a couple YouTube videos showing Carrara particles in action and it looks good. We don’t have all the people working on Blender, but just a little more attention to detail might be just what we need. It will be a long time before DAZ/Poser content can easily and readily work in other programs. The guy trying to get Poser content into Blender keeps running into problems and he’s been at it for a couple years now. So DAZ should consider that ease of content use in Carrara is a very big deal.

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Posted: 13 October 2012 06:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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As I’ve said before DAZ is spending so much time trying to make carrara more studio like, that carrara has fallen way behind the rest of the pack when it comes to features.
I’ve also said if I wanted to be using studio, I would be.

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Posted: 13 October 2012 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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FURB - 13 October 2012 04:55 AM
Robo2010 - 12 October 2012 11:43 PM

So, your begging for Carrara 9 beta? Beta 8 is not even complete. Still waiting for the final of Carrara 8, while using Build 153.

He’s asking for DAZ to put some effort into C9 and not do the piss pore job they have done with 8.

That was the same way when C7 was out, and some were begging for C8. All they have to do, is change to intro image, change version number. Because that is what it feels like. Their you go.

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Posted: 13 October 2012 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I am glad someone posted about this. I am frustrated with Carrara and it’s slow development cycle and bugs. I think the bugs are my most pet peeves atm because I am always finding them. I have given up on the bug tracker and such. I just dont see Daz that interested in making Carrara the best it could be. Introduce a new feature and break something else and the time it takes to fix that feature takes forever or not at all.

So I downloaded some demos of of 3d packages and Cinema 4d has impressed me a lot for its easy of use. It reminds me of Carrara in many ways. Yes it is $3600.00 but I can get it for edu discount if I want. That is $280 I have saved up to make this purchased. Money that would go to Daz if they would just kill the bug, but I have lost all faith that Daz will do more with Carrara than the bare minimum after release.

For me thought I probably will not wait for 8.5 to make up my mind, I really like C4D and it is a lot like Carrara in many respects and it is rock solid. When I get on to my computer to make whatever I have decided to learn that day I dont want to sit and fight the software. I just want it to work without the hassle. The biggest drawback is content. It would be nice to be able to use all the content I have inside C4D. I have heard of Interposer, I will see how that goes.

Oh that is good news, the maker of Interposer seems to be making a plugin for Genesis. Way cool.

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Posted: 13 October 2012 05:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Robo2010 - 13 October 2012 11:45 AM
FURB - 13 October 2012 04:55 AM
Robo2010 - 12 October 2012 11:43 PM

So, your begging for Carrara 9 beta? Beta 8 is not even complete. Still waiting for the final of Carrara 8, while using Build 153.

He’s asking for DAZ to put some effort into C9 and not do the piss pore job they have done with 8.

That was the same way when C7 was out, and some were begging for C8. All they have to do, is change to intro image, change version number. Because that is what it feels like. Their you go.

That’s kinda my point, Robo.  Did you even read what I wrote?

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Posted: 17 October 2012 06:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Well here we are, 8 months of C8.5 nearing completion. I’ve come to the conclusion the only features we will get in carrara by asking is if they are features already in studio.

I just don’t get why DAZ is spending all it’s carrara developmental time trying to turn carrara in to studio when DAZ already has studio and carrara needs some serious updating to catch up with the rest of the apps of it’s kind. Every year carrara just falls further behind the rest of the pack. DAZ is pretty well killing it for the market it was designed for.

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Posted: 17 October 2012 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I would guess, Stan, that DAZ wants to make Carrara more user friendly for Studio users so they can get them to upgrade. It’s easier to market to people you already have coming here than to spend a fortune to entice people who don’t know to come to this site.  I don’t how many times I’ve seen Studio users post that they find Carrara hard to figure out. So it would make sense that they want to make it more tempting for Studio users. And we still have no idea what they’ve been planning for C9. But gnashing teeth and getting all upset does nothing to convince possible Carraraists to try it. It just makes it look like a bad thing to do so Carrara is tried less and less. Look at all the crap and negativity that went on with Poser folks when Genesis came out. Now that there’s a good importer, some are coming back. But the negativity sure convinced a lot of people to leave here. I’m convinced the same thing has happened to Carrara. And lack of sales when they come out with a new version will do nothing to help our cause.

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Posted: 17 October 2012 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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After perusing the bug tracker, I am convinced that C8.5 will be finalized with a number of critical bugs…
Namely: animated hair attraction to backfacing normals
* https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=42146 https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=41925
and a premul alpha channel bug where any object with a transparency shader cuts holes in the solid objects behind it.
* https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=48181

Both are animation showstoppers.

I can live without animated hair (been living without it all this time, and if the offending exposed backfaces are extruded and the polygons filled in, the backfaces are “covered” and the hair sims normally, but I assume that kills dynamic hair for any future cloth sim).

But the transparency issue I cannot work around. I would need to rotoscope and mask EVERY FRAME of an animation where a figure used a transparency shader (eye lenses, hair prop, clothing…). In the case of a hair prop this is simply not possible.

I hate to be the broken record but no amount of new features is going to make Carrara useable for animations until some of these bugs get fixed…

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Posted: 17 October 2012 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Yeah, as far as I can tell, a cloth sim requires a model that is single-sided…. This will always destroy a hair sim. The hair sim bug was introduced in C8 I believe. Maybe the hair sim could be calculated first before any dynamic cloth is added…. the cloth sim maybe could be done in another program and imported as MDD or sequential OBJ…

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320+ TUTORIALS for Carrara at CARRARA CAFE
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Posted: 17 October 2012 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Kevin Sanderson - 17 October 2012 09:27 AM

I would guess, Stan, that DAZ wants to make Carrara more user friendly for Studio users so they can get them to upgrade. It’s easier to market to people you already have coming here than to spend a fortune to entice people who don’t know to come to this site.  I don’t how many times I’ve seen Studio users post that they find Carrara hard to figure out. So it would make sense that they want to make it more tempting for Studio users. And we still have no idea what they’ve been planning for C9. But gnashing teeth and getting all upset does nothing to convince possible Carraraists to try it. It just makes it look like a bad thing to do so Carrara is tried less and less. Look at all the crap and negativity that went on with Poser folks when Genesis came out. Now that there’s a good importer, some are coming back. But the negativity sure convinced a lot of people to leave here. I’m convinced the same thing has happened to Carrara. And lack of sales when they come out with a new version will do nothing to help our cause.

The only Carrara version I have used is the 8.5 beta.  I find it much easier to use than Bryce and Hexagon, possibly even easier than Studio.  Since I am a Studio user, Carrara is the next step for me.

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Posted: 17 October 2012 01:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I want Daz to take its time.
I’m not bothered by the slow development cycle because I don’t really feel the need to update my software very often.
They just need to work out the bugs, nice and slow. Get it done and get it done right.
Then get out some documentation.


I’m still running C7Pro and until we get a final version of C8Pro, I’m sticking with C7 (and maybe will until I have to upgrade).
I’m convinced most people don’t get the full use out of Carrara.


Stan is right, we really don’t need to have Carrara to become more DS like. It is already DS like enough.


Kevin, spot on about the presets. We could use some updates there.


Daz just needs to slow down. Get more vendors making Carrara specific items. Since Daz makes most of its money on content and not software, that might be really helpful

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Posted: 17 October 2012 02:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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AtticAnne - 17 October 2012 12:23 PM
Kevin Sanderson - 17 October 2012 09:27 AM

I would guess, Stan, that DAZ wants to make Carrara more user friendly for Studio users so they can get them to upgrade. It’s easier to market to people you already have coming here than to spend a fortune to entice people who don’t know to come to this site.  I don’t how many times I’ve seen Studio users post that they find Carrara hard to figure out. So it would make sense that they want to make it more tempting for Studio users. And we still have no idea what they’ve been planning for C9. But gnashing teeth and getting all upset does nothing to convince possible Carraraists to try it. It just makes it look like a bad thing to do so Carrara is tried less and less. Look at all the crap and negativity that went on with Poser folks when Genesis came out. Now that there’s a good importer, some are coming back. But the negativity sure convinced a lot of people to leave here. I’m convinced the same thing has happened to Carrara. And lack of sales when they come out with a new version will do nothing to help our cause.

The only Carrara version I have used is the 8.5 beta.  I find it much easier to use than Bryce and Hexagon, possibly even easier than Studio.  Since I am a Studio user, Carrara is the next step for me.

I hear that.  Having paid for Carrara 8 Pro and slowly getting used it, I think it’s actually easier in a lot of ways than Studio.

I think for me, the thing that the OP mentioned that I would love to see is a 3rd party render engine, but even so, I love the built in one.

I’m currently using 8.5 Pro but probably too much a noob to be finding the bugs.  I’m not hitting any fancy features yet.

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