Digital Art Zone

barbfmc - 20 October 2012 02:55 AM

I’ve worked with Bryce as tester and user for many years and have invested literally thousands of dollars into Bryce related products.  After updating to Lion ... On a new 64 bit MAC,  I can no longer work with Bryce.  I haven’t seen any warnings not to purchase either Bryce or Lion and find any mention of a ‘MAC’ version of the program disingenuous on DAZ’s part. Please don’t tell me there’s a hidden warning on the Bryce product page. The fact that it’s hidden or not obvious is actually outrageous.

I’m posting this morning because I was checking in yet again and thought after going to the product page that my old friend had been finally updated. Took a look in here to check it out and found this thread

Bryce was my mainstay.  I have resisted saying this but I feel hurt and consequently angry at DAZ’s blanket dismissal of customers like myself. And I can’t express how sad my loss of Bryce as my mainstay tool has been to me.

Thx for listening,
Barb

I understand the feeling but it’s not really a matter of Daz dismissing Mac Customers. The issue is that Daz is not as big or as powerful money wise to do more then they have done. A big part of the problem is that the software any developer would need to know to be able to upgrade Bryce isn’t something widely in use and therefore there are too few developers up to the task and the ones that are, are quite expensive to hire. This led to an unfortunate situation where the guy to fix it was done with his contract and moved on, before the problem with Bryce and OSX Lion or above was realized. So Bryce has had to be put on hold for now but for what it’s worth fixing it for Lion has been reported as a top priority for when it does go back to developement.

Unfortunately for people like you or me for that matter (even though I use a PC) is that while Bryce is very dear to us we (Bryce Customers) make up a very small segment of Daz’s customers. Therefore it just makes good business sense for Daz to devote more time and resources to the products selling well then to devote them towards Bryce. As much as none of us might not be happy to face this reality that fact of the matter is we’re very lucky Daz hasn’t given up on Bryce completely.

LordHardDriven is spot on - it isn’t “blanket dismissal”, it’s harsh commercial reality. If you consider the difficulties DAZ had in assigning resources to fix basic and profound problems with these forums (a major part of their primary customer interface), the Bryce under Lion issue can be seen in proper perspective.

The heady pre-2008 days of a cash rich DAZ are over, and the various programs that DAZ acquired in its buying spree are now at least partial millstones. It is to DAZ’s credit (social if not financial) that they continue development of assets that are marginal at best, and may be actual liabilities.

It’s difficult to be optimistic in the long term. The whole computer tech world is rapidly changing, and the change (in combination with a drastically altered world economy) may be undermining DAZ’s fundamental content selling business model, let alone niche products like Bryce.

Having said that, you should continue to argue your corner with passion rather than give up. I’ve seen DAZ come through unexpectedly before, so keep your eyes open.

LordHardDriven - 20 October 2012 01:51 PM

we (Bryce Customers) make up a very small segment of Daz’s customers.

I don’t tend to buy ‘Bryce products’ - I buy DAZ content. Or rather, I used to buy DAZ content, to arrange in DAZ Studio and finish in Bryce. Since I’ve lost access to Bryce, I’ve stopped buying from DAZ. And people like me are usually not vocal about it, we just drift away, but with us goes a chunk of revenue.

green_knight - 20 October 2012 04:32 PM

LordHardDriven - 20 October 2012 01:51 PM

we (Bryce Customers) make up a very small segment of Daz’s customers.

I don’t tend to buy ‘Bryce products’ - I buy DAZ content. Or rather, I used to buy DAZ content, to arrange in DAZ Studio and finish in Bryce. Since I’ve lost access to Bryce, I’ve stopped buying from DAZ. And people like me are usually not vocal about it, we just drift away, but with us goes a chunk of revenue.

 

I don’t mean this as a criticism but it’s in some ways customers like you that have Daz giving less priority to Bryce Developement. See when you buy “Daz” content that is not specifically for Bryce Daz has no way of knowing you’ll be using it for Bryce. So when they analyze thier sales trends to make developement decisions they’re more likely to chalk it up as a “Studio” sale and so your purchase might help push them to put more developement time and resources into Studio as a result. Not because of just your specific sales, I’m talking more in an overall sense. Now this is not uncommon in the Bryce community because there are a great many of us who feel that Bryce renders should be pure Bryce or as close to it as possible. Therefore people like that are less likely to buy Bryce specific content because they’re more likely to just make what they need themselves. You can probably find something similar in the poser world like for example someone who is well versed in making poses is less likely to buy a pose set because they can just make it themselves.

If you look at what Daz sells you should be able to recognize that in a large way Daz’s business model kind of depends on the customer depending on others to do things they could actually do themselves if they had more training. So the hardcore “Bryce Only” type of users who don’t buy much Bryce product, while being arguably the most passionate of the Bryce customer base also help keep Bryce at low priority in developement. Unfortunately if someone like you just quietly drifts away Daz doesn’t see that as a loss to it’s Bryce Customer base but rather it gets chalked up as a loss to Studio. Also unfortunately Studio users likely come and go alot more because in the Studio world you have many more people who are completely new to 3D anything and as such are more likely to drop out of the scene if thier 3D experience doesn’t go to well. So a customer who just quietly drifts away, especially if they seem like a Studio customer, is less likely to cause Daz to change what it’s doing one way or another.

Add into all of that the fact that the economy while technically on the road to recovery is still struggling and things like 3D content, especially at the current prices we see, is the first sort of thing for consumers to pull back on unless their 3D hobby is also a source of income for them. This due to the fact that 3D content is the sort of thing people spend money on when they have extra money in their pocket and the future looks bright. So Daz has taken some big hits to the amount of money they have to work with anything. Which is probably why they started giving their main programs away. If people are less likely to buy 3D product in a down economy then they’re really not at all likely to do it if they also have to buy the more expensive program to use the content on. If however they give those programs away now the consumer has an incentive to buy that content and having gotten it for free they might see the savings as money that can then be spent on content.

Then their is the matter of the way the two relatively recent site upgrades went. They were so riddled with problems it really conveyed an unintended message to the consumer that Daz is not run very well which only serves to undermine consumer confidence.

One reason why I have been entering challenges with some Bryce renders which obviously have DAZ 3D content in them, and they have been noticed, as in making the PC newsletter 3 times so far with an image.

My little bit towards promoting the fact that some Brycers use ordinary DAZ 3D content as well.

Horo - Hello! So nice to see / hear your voice. Really miss everyone. Re: that Bryce was MAC - funny how things turn around. Agree with you totally. Barb

LordHardDriven - 21 October 2012 09:51 AM

 

I don’t mean this as a criticism but it’s in some ways customers like you that have Daz giving less priority to Bryce Developement. See when you buy “Daz” content that is not specifically for Bryce Daz has no way of knowing you’ll be using it for Bryce.

 

I fully understand, which is why I am speaking up here. The Bryce-only content is either fairly limited (eg, models that are solidly grouped - render or be damned - or I’ve already got it. (I don’t, much as I would love to, need another set of marble textures etc.)

So yes, I am fully aware that DAZ probably counts most of us as Studio customers… and that is, as you point out, a problem.

LordHardDriven - 21 October 2012 09:51 AM

If you look at what Daz sells you should be able to recognize that in a large way Daz’s business model kind of depends on the customer depending on others to do things they could actually do themselves if they had more training.

Yes, but the convenience. And for the price of a cup of coffee!

LordHardDriven - 21 October 2012 09:51 AM

Add into all of that the fact that the economy while technically on the road to recovery is still struggling and things like 3D content, especially at the current prices we see, is the first sort of thing for consumers to pull back

Oh, absolutely, and I was one of them - I used to be a Platinum Club member, and could not justify the ongoing expense. But since I’ve got my new computer - my new, 15’, fast, sleek Macbook Pro - I’ve stopped buying content altogether, even though I currently have enough cashflow to drop a few bucks now and again.

Unless I can get the instant gratification of seeing something, paying for it, downloading it, and testing the model, I won’t buy. Not in the least because I have, in the past, returned one or the other product that didn’t live up to expectations. And if Bryce will only run next year, chances are that I’ll have gotten out of the habit of buying from DAZ altogether. (It really did not help that the site redesign wiped my wishlist.)

LordHardDriven - 21 October 2012 09:51 AM

Then their is the matter of the way the two relatively recent site upgrades went. They were so riddled with problems it really conveyed an unintended message to the consumer that Daz is not run very well which only serves to undermine consumer confidence.

I’m now a poster with three or four posts to my name again (that is… not an accurate portrayal), and the fact that I can’t stay logged in on the site and that I’m not actively doing much 3D because I can’t just casually fire up Bryce to experiment makes it less likely that I’ll be taking much part in the future. And of course if I’m not hanging out on the forums and viewing threads about new products, I’m less likely to buy….

So, yeah. One customer with a budget for 2012 that’s probaly in the $200 region. A customer who got at least four people to download Bryce, and who likes DAZ, but right now, I feel actively discouraged from giving them money.

chohole - 21 October 2012 09:57 AM

One reason why I have been entering challenges with some Bryce renders which obviously have DAZ 3D content in them, and they have been noticed, as in making the PC newsletter 3 times so far with an image.

My little bit towards promoting the fact that some Brycers use ordinary DAZ 3D content as well.

I think that’s a very good way of jumping up and down and waving. Yes, we’re here - let’s be counted.

Yeah, and of course, being a moderator and thus posting in many forums, I did make a banner to draw attention to Bryce as well.

I really feel for Mac Brycers, as I know how upset I was when Bryce first hit the stores and was Mac only, was really pleased when Bryce 2 came out with a PC version. Been hooked ever since.