Bryce 7 Pro

tonibryantonibryan Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in Bryce Discussion

I've downloaded the free Bryce 7 Pro product and it will not work, despite having tried many different ways to get it to work. I'm using a late 2009 Mac Mini, OSX Lion, and can use Daz 4.5 Pro and Hexagon 2.5 without a problem. I know some time ago Bryce was having a problem with OSX but you are clearly indicating that there isn't a problem with your download for Mac and using image material that shows Bryce working on an iMac.

Is there still a problem? Is there a solution to the problem? Many thanks, Tony.

Comments

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news; Bryce 7 is not compatible with OSX Lion or above.

    It does say so on the Daz site but it's not obvious.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,348
    edited December 1969

    Agreed. From the Tech Specs page


    Intel or Power PC Processor®
    700 MHz (1 GHz or faster recommended)
    OS X 10.4 or above (Not currently compatible with OS X 10.7 Lion)

    And from the shop page

    There are known issues running under Mac OSX Lion. We do not recommend using this platform for Bryce 7.

  • tonibryantonibryan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Can you please explain why the issues you mentioned haven't been resolved, OSX Lion is over a year old and all other Daz products don't seem to have a problem with Lion. Thanks in advance.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Yes, Daz don't have any Bryce developers at the moment and the software isn't in a development cycle.

    There is at the moment no news as to when it will come back around, but we are assured that when it does, it is a priority.

    Sorry can't help any more than that.. I'm a Mac man too and am clinging onto the older computer and OS so I don't have to give Bryce up.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,348
    edited December 1969

    The development cycle which included Bryce 7 pro came to an end before Mac introduced OSX Lion. The Mac developer who had been working on Bryce 7 was on contract, and his contract ended a short time after the dev cycle ended.

    Since then the dev cycle has been for Daz Studio and Carrara, so now they have to find another Mac develpoer who has knowledge of Bryce before anything further can be done. We were told that if and when they find one that the Mac OSX problem will be right on hte forefront of any fixes looked into.

  • tonibryantonibryan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Chohole. What I do find confusing is that, with the amount of experience Daz has in product development, in line with all software developers, is that the development cycle is an ongoing process, and that it's likely in the case of software that each product cycle overlaps in that development. We all understand that software is a progressive endeavour, rather than having a specific timeline, unless there are specific reasons for doing so. If a product has come to its natural end, as in the case of Final Cut 7, then the software developer will abandon that product, as in the case of Apple when they brought to market, Final Cut Pro X.

    Bryce is an excellent product, and has many users and supporters and a growing number of third party developers, something Daz would both continue to encourage and support, and use as a firm foundation for maximising its profitability. I understand that Bryce needs to have specialised skills and knowledge, yet wouldn't a solution be to either reemploy the individual under a new contract, or use someone from within the Daz developer ecosystem, train them in the skills necessaery, and move on in getting Bryce back to where it should be, working wonderfully on the Apple OSX system. Apple have made it clear that they intent releasing a new OSX on an annual basis, which means that Bryce 7 is already 1.25 times behind the OSX platform.

    I love working with Daz products for all the reasons that Daz can proudly claim. But what we have at the moment is a very large hole, which makes it impossible to bridge between Daz 4.5 and Bryce 7; this in turn cuts out a large part of the creative process and makes it virtually impossible to blend together the two, something which Daz says is possible.

    I'm sorry for the length, but I, along with a multitude of others, are so frustrated that we can't use a wonderful program because of a lack of the relevant source code.

    Thanks for your patience. All the best, Tony.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,348
    edited December 1969

    What a lot of people don't really realise is that DAZ 3D is really not a large company. It doesn't have a large permanent dev team, as larger companies would have, hence why they sometimes need to employ extra specialist staff on fixed term contracts.

    You can be assured that everyone posting in this forum totally agrees with you about needing to take Bryce forward.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,267
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:

    You can be assured that everyone posting in this forum totally agrees with you about needing to take Bryce forward.

    Confirmed!

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 265
    edited December 1969

    It's unfortunate that the "Pro" marketing moniker was applied to Bryce, without the appropriate professional support and development being available (including operation under current mainstream operating systems). "Bryce7 Adv" (as in advanced) or some such would have been a more appropriate title.

    Bryce under cyclical DAZ stewardship is in a difficult place, but it's probably a safe bet that it would be in a dead place otherwise. Putting my dusty optimist hat on, it's worth noting that on previous occasions DAZ has been grumpily formal in announcing that things will happen miserably slowly in a predesignated order - and then there's a sudden flurry of unexpected activity producing something special. So you never know.

    One thing's for sure, there's a better chance of seeing Bryce7 working under OSX>10.6, than seeing OSX>10.5 working on PowerPC based Macs. Just to put commercially ruthless development into perspective...

  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    The development cycle which included Bryce 7 pro came to an end before Mac introduced OSX Lion. The Mac developer who had been working on Bryce 7 was on contract, and his contract ended a short time after the dev cycle ended.

    Since then the dev cycle has been for Daz Studio and Carrara, so now they have to find another Mac develpoer who has knowledge of Bryce before anything further can be done. We were told that if and when they find one that the Mac OSX problem will be right on hte forefront of any fixes looked into.

    That doesn't make it any more frustrating that in the time since Lion came out, Daz hasn't been able to find such a developer.

    Most of Bryce, incidentally, *does* run under Lion. I've run it on a machine that had a working Bryce 7 installation under Snow Leopard, and it would open and render and do a lot of cool stuff - and then it would hit a dialogue and crash, so you can't register it if you're on a Lion-only Mac, and you can't save anything.

    My feeling - based on playing with Bryce under Lion - is that we're looking at a fairly limited bug. I'm finding it hard to believe that it would need a significant rewrite of the Bryce codebase to get it to work - and I would rather have a Bryce version with, say, the Materials lab disabled than no Bryce at all.

    I miss Bryce :-(

  • barbfmcbarbfmc Posts: 47
    edited October 2012

    Duplicate. Apologies

    Post edited by barbfmc on
  • barbfmcbarbfmc Posts: 47
    edited October 2012

    I've worked with Bryce as tester and user for many years and have invested literally thousands of dollars into Bryce related products. After updating to Lion ... On a new 64 bit MAC, I can no longer work with Bryce. I haven't seen any warnings not to purchase either Bryce or Lion and find any mention of a 'MAC' version of the program disingenuous on DAZ's part. Please don't tell me there's a hidden warning on the Bryce product page. The fact that it's hidden or not obvious is actually outrageous.

    I'm posting this morning because I was checking in yet again and thought after going to the product page that my old friend had been finally updated. Took a look in here to check it out and found this thread

    Bryce was my mainstay. I have resisted saying this but I feel hurt and consequently angry at DAZ's blanket dismissal of customers like myself. And I can't express how sad my loss of Bryce as my mainstay tool has been to me.

    Thx for listening,
    Barb

    Post edited by barbfmc on
  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I feel for you. I, too, have a very extensive library of products and spent a considerable amount of $$$ at Daz.

    I still pick up freebies, but I will not buy any more products until I can use them in Bryce. I had to replace my old computer because it was unreliable - now I have a new, fast, equipped-with-good-graphics-card computer, and I would adore to do 3D again. but nothing beats the ease of Bryce.

    By now I have - which my bank balance likes - gotten out of the habit of buying from DAZ. Once Bryce is back - if it comes back - I will reaquaint myself with my library, and try out all the freebies I got in the meantime, and... yes, I guess that eventually I'll buy models again, but dropping five dollars a week on this and that because of instant gratification is probably a thing of the past.

    I wonder how many people are in a similar situation...

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Although I realise it sucks that Bryce doesn't work on the new Macs and new OS, I have to say that I find it difficult to believe that people aren't aware or don't check compatibility before upgrading anything. I've been due a new Mac for a couple of years now but to me, Bryce is more important than Lion hence both my present Macs will remain in use running OS 10.5.8. I may still get a new one eventually too without waiting for Daz to update Bryce, but as Macs rarely ever die (I still have every single Mac I ever bought for the last 20 years and although they don't get used, they all still work, meaning that if it was necessary, I could even get one out, set it up and run applications that were only 'classic' OS compatible), I will keep at least one that does run Bryce.

    I know it's not ideal, but second hand iMacs and eMacs in perfect working condition running compatible OS can be bought on eBay for peanuts (eMac G4's for £10, iMac G4's for only £50 and G5's for £100) and Bryce7 Pro is free, so it's really not expensive to keep Brycing.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,267
    edited December 1969

    @Barb - at least it's nice to see you're still around. Considering that Bryce was initially a Mac program, I think it is inexcusable that no serious effort is made to bring Bryce 7.1 to work on a new Mac.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    barbfmc said:
    I've worked with Bryce as tester and user for many years and have invested literally thousands of dollars into Bryce related products. After updating to Lion ... On a new 64 bit MAC, I can no longer work with Bryce. I haven't seen any warnings not to purchase either Bryce or Lion and find any mention of a 'MAC' version of the program disingenuous on DAZ's part. Please don't tell me there's a hidden warning on the Bryce product page. The fact that it's hidden or not obvious is actually outrageous.

    I'm posting this morning because I was checking in yet again and thought after going to the product page that my old friend had been finally updated. Took a look in here to check it out and found this thread

    Bryce was my mainstay. I have resisted saying this but I feel hurt and consequently angry at DAZ's blanket dismissal of customers like myself. And I can't express how sad my loss of Bryce as my mainstay tool has been to me.

    Thx for listening,
    Barb


    I understand the feeling but it's not really a matter of Daz dismissing Mac Customers. The issue is that Daz is not as big or as powerful money wise to do more then they have done. A big part of the problem is that the software any developer would need to know to be able to upgrade Bryce isn't something widely in use and therefore there are too few developers up to the task and the ones that are, are quite expensive to hire. This led to an unfortunate situation where the guy to fix it was done with his contract and moved on, before the problem with Bryce and OSX Lion or above was realized. So Bryce has had to be put on hold for now but for what it's worth fixing it for Lion has been reported as a top priority for when it does go back to developement.

    Unfortunately for people like you or me for that matter (even though I use a PC) is that while Bryce is very dear to us we (Bryce Customers) make up a very small segment of Daz's customers. Therefore it just makes good business sense for Daz to devote more time and resources to the products selling well then to devote them towards Bryce. As much as none of us might not be happy to face this reality that fact of the matter is we're very lucky Daz hasn't given up on Bryce completely.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 265
    edited December 1969

    LordHardDriven is spot on - it isn't "blanket dismissal", it's harsh commercial reality. If you consider the difficulties DAZ had in assigning resources to fix basic and profound problems with these forums (a major part of their primary customer interface), the Bryce under Lion issue can be seen in proper perspective.

    The heady pre-2008 days of a cash rich DAZ are over, and the various programs that DAZ acquired in its buying spree are now at least partial millstones. It is to DAZ's credit (social if not financial) that they continue development of assets that are marginal at best, and may be actual liabilities.

    It's difficult to be optimistic in the long term. The whole computer tech world is rapidly changing, and the change (in combination with a drastically altered world economy) may be undermining DAZ's fundamental content selling business model, let alone niche products like Bryce.


    Having said that, you should continue to argue your corner with passion rather than give up. I've seen DAZ come through unexpectedly before, so keep your eyes open.

  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    we (Bryce Customers) make up a very small segment of Daz's customers.

    I don't tend to buy 'Bryce products' - I buy DAZ content. Or rather, I used to buy DAZ content, to arrange in DAZ Studio and finish in Bryce. Since I've lost access to Bryce, I've stopped buying from DAZ. And people like me are usually not vocal about it, we just drift away, but with us goes a chunk of revenue.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    we (Bryce Customers) make up a very small segment of Daz's customers.

    I don't tend to buy 'Bryce products' - I buy DAZ content. Or rather, I used to buy DAZ content, to arrange in DAZ Studio and finish in Bryce. Since I've lost access to Bryce, I've stopped buying from DAZ. And people like me are usually not vocal about it, we just drift away, but with us goes a chunk of revenue.

    I don't mean this as a criticism but it's in some ways customers like you that have Daz giving less priority to Bryce Developement. See when you buy "Daz" content that is not specifically for Bryce Daz has no way of knowing you'll be using it for Bryce. So when they analyze thier sales trends to make developement decisions they're more likely to chalk it up as a "Studio" sale and so your purchase might help push them to put more developement time and resources into Studio as a result. Not because of just your specific sales, I'm talking more in an overall sense. Now this is not uncommon in the Bryce community because there are a great many of us who feel that Bryce renders should be pure Bryce or as close to it as possible. Therefore people like that are less likely to buy Bryce specific content because they're more likely to just make what they need themselves. You can probably find something similar in the poser world like for example someone who is well versed in making poses is less likely to buy a pose set because they can just make it themselves.

    If you look at what Daz sells you should be able to recognize that in a large way Daz's business model kind of depends on the customer depending on others to do things they could actually do themselves if they had more training. So the hardcore "Bryce Only" type of users who don't buy much Bryce product, while being arguably the most passionate of the Bryce customer base also help keep Bryce at low priority in developement. Unfortunately if someone like you just quietly drifts away Daz doesn't see that as a loss to it's Bryce Customer base but rather it gets chalked up as a loss to Studio. Also unfortunately Studio users likely come and go alot more because in the Studio world you have many more people who are completely new to 3D anything and as such are more likely to drop out of the scene if thier 3D experience doesn't go to well. So a customer who just quietly drifts away, especially if they seem like a Studio customer, is less likely to cause Daz to change what it's doing one way or another.

    Add into all of that the fact that the economy while technically on the road to recovery is still struggling and things like 3D content, especially at the current prices we see, is the first sort of thing for consumers to pull back on unless their 3D hobby is also a source of income for them. This due to the fact that 3D content is the sort of thing people spend money on when they have extra money in their pocket and the future looks bright. So Daz has taken some big hits to the amount of money they have to work with anything. Which is probably why they started giving their main programs away. If people are less likely to buy 3D product in a down economy then they're really not at all likely to do it if they also have to buy the more expensive program to use the content on. If however they give those programs away now the consumer has an incentive to buy that content and having gotten it for free they might see the savings as money that can then be spent on content.

    Then their is the matter of the way the two relatively recent site upgrades went. They were so riddled with problems it really conveyed an unintended message to the consumer that Daz is not run very well which only serves to undermine consumer confidence.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,348
    edited December 1969

    One reason why I have been entering challenges with some Bryce renders which obviously have DAZ 3D content in them, and they have been noticed, as in making the PC newsletter 3 times so far with an image.

    My little bit towards promoting the fact that some Brycers use ordinary DAZ 3D content as well.

  • barbfmcbarbfmc Posts: 47
    edited December 1969

    Horo - Hello! So nice to see / hear your voice. Really miss everyone. Re: that Bryce was MAC - funny how things turn around. Agree with you totally. Barb

  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I don't mean this as a criticism but it's in some ways customers like you that have Daz giving less priority to Bryce Developement. See when you buy "Daz" content that is not specifically for Bryce Daz has no way of knowing you'll be using it for Bryce.

    I fully understand, which is why I am speaking up here. The Bryce-only content is either fairly limited (eg, models that are solidly grouped - render or be damned - or I've already got it. (I don't, much as I would love to, need another set of marble textures etc.)

    So yes, I am fully aware that DAZ probably counts most of us as Studio customers... and that is, as you point out, a problem.


    If you look at what Daz sells you should be able to recognize that in a large way Daz's business model kind of depends on the customer depending on others to do things they could actually do themselves if they had more training.


    Yes, but the convenience. And for the price of a cup of coffee!


    Add into all of that the fact that the economy while technically on the road to recovery is still struggling and things like 3D content, especially at the current prices we see, is the first sort of thing for consumers to pull back

    Oh, absolutely, and I was one of them - I used to be a Platinum Club member, and could not justify the ongoing expense. But since I've got my new computer - my new, 15', fast, sleek Macbook Pro - I've stopped buying content altogether, even though I currently have enough cashflow to drop a few bucks now and again.

    Unless I can get the instant gratification of seeing something, paying for it, downloading it, and testing the model, I won't buy. Not in the least because I have, in the past, returned one or the other product that didn't live up to expectations. And if Bryce will only run next year, chances are that I'll have gotten out of the habit of buying from DAZ altogether. (It really did not help that the site redesign wiped my wishlist.)


    Then their is the matter of the way the two relatively recent site upgrades went. They were so riddled with problems it really conveyed an unintended message to the consumer that Daz is not run very well which only serves to undermine consumer confidence.

    I'm now a poster with three or four posts to my name again (that is... not an accurate portrayal), and the fact that I can't stay logged in on the site and that I'm not actively doing much 3D because I can't just casually fire up Bryce to experiment makes it less likely that I'll be taking much part in the future. And of course if I'm not hanging out on the forums and viewing threads about new products, I'm less likely to buy....

    So, yeah. One customer with a budget for 2012 that's probaly in the $200 region. A customer who got at least four people to download Bryce, and who likes DAZ, but right now, I feel actively discouraged from giving them money.

  • green_knightgreen_knight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    One reason why I have been entering challenges with some Bryce renders which obviously have DAZ 3D content in them, and they have been noticed, as in making the PC newsletter 3 times so far with an image.

    My little bit towards promoting the fact that some Brycers use ordinary DAZ 3D content as well.

    I think that's a very good way of jumping up and down and waving. Yes, we're here - let's be counted.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,348
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, and of course, being a moderator and thus posting in many forums, I did make a banner to draw attention to Bryce as well.

    I really feel for Mac Brycers, as I know how upset I was when Bryce first hit the stores and was Mac only, was really pleased when Bryce 2 came out with a PC version. Been hooked ever since.

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