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Multiple Shaders
Posted: 11 October 2012 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]
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We’ve been kicking it around in a few different threads. Hoping to get an authority on this.

There is a way to have multiple shaders on a single model, and it sounds like there is also a way to blend those shaders via some sort of alpha function.

My interest is primarily in combining YAToon with Toon Pro in a single hierarchy and blending the two.

Being unable to blend the two in Carrara means an entire global shader as YAToon and an entire global shader as Toon Pro and then uploading each shader individually, doing two complete renders, and then blending them in AE. 

While blending in Carrara wouldn’t provide the same functionality as does AE’s blending options, I think the saved step might be worth it. And if not, I’d at least like to be able to see the results for comparison.

Thanks!

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Posted: 11 October 2012 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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HI BC RIce smile

Can you have multiple shaders on a single object ...
Yes.
you just create as many shading domains as you need, and then apply a different shader to each domain.

BUT,... that’s different from non-photorealistic rendering ,.. and this is a grey area for me since I don’t use either YaToon or Toon-Pro,
but if I’m thinking correctly,... these are both Render options or post render filters, rather than Shader options

So, to combine two different renders you’re looking at post production,... even if that done by bringing both renders back into carrara.

If they are actual shader’s and not dependent on the renderer setting, then you could make a mixer , or in C8.5 beta, you could use the new Multilayer shader.

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Posted: 11 October 2012 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Hm. Well Toon Pro has a render filter option, but YAToon is listed under “Lighting” and Toon Pro is just listed under the shaders (separate from its rendering option)

I’m using C7 Pro.

How do you go about creating a “mixer”?

Thanks!

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Posted: 11 October 2012 06:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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You can find Mixer, under the Operators section in the shader drop-out menu, (see pic)

The mixer gives you two “Source” channels , and a Blend channel.
Each of the Sources can be any shader colour , gradient, texture, value, or most other shader functions, including another Mixer operator.
The Blend channel can also be any colour, gradient,  texture, value, procedure, or another mixer.

There’s also a Multichannel mixer. which allows you to create a mixer of two , or more, entire shader tree’s. with different colour, alpha, highlight, shininess, bump, etc… see pic 2

You can find the Multichannel Mixer under “Complex shaders”

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Posted: 11 October 2012 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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As 3dage said, the multi-channel mixer at the top level is the way to go. I successfully created a Yet Another Toon shader and a regular multi-channel shader.


If Toon Pro is a 3rd party shader plugin, then it should work. How well YaToon and Toon Pro play together is anybody’s guess. If Toon Pro is a render plugin, then you can’t combine the two in a shader.

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Posted: 12 October 2012 05:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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evilproducer - 11 October 2012 07:13 PM

As 3dage said, the multi-channel mixer at the top level is the way to go. I successfully created a Yet Another Toon shader and a regular multi-channel shader.


If Toon Pro is a 3rd party shader plugin, then it should work. How well YaToon and Toon Pro play together is anybody’s guess. If Toon Pro is a render plugin, then you can’t combine the two in a shader.

I’ll check it out tonight or tomorrow. I’ll post a render if I can get it to blend.

Also Toon Pro is a shader and also has a separate render function (for line art).

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Posted: 12 October 2012 06:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Before using ‘Multi Channel Mixer’, I set up the one set of shaders just the way I like it and save it off to the browser.
Set up the second shader and save it, too.

Using multi channel mixer, Use one shader set as each source (Edit > Remove Unused Masters > Consolidate Duplicate Shaders to save you from having to blend every single domain)
For the mixer, just use value 1 - 100 and blend them to your liking! smile

You can also keyframe changes in the values if you so desire!

Hope that helps further.

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Posted: 13 October 2012 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Alrighty, that did it. Thanks everyone!

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Posted: 14 October 2012 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Yeah, *so* much better gradation now with the tooning function, even in really harsh light.

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Posted: 14 October 2012 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Wider shot

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Posted: 14 October 2012 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Those look great! So, did you also use Toon Pro’s render functions?

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Posted: 14 October 2012 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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evilproducer - 14 October 2012 01:59 PM

Those look great! So, did you also use Toon Pro’s render functions?

Nah, I’m not a fan of it on models unless it’s like a box or a car or a wall, etc. On characters it looks bad. The line art really likes to be in a constant line, like a continuous bend of a circle or straight line on a box.

That was why getting YAToon to function with Toon Pro was so crucial. Toon Pro really only provides the flat colors but does not provide *any* of the actual subtle definition. Basically the colors are Highlight and Shadow and that’s it.

But if you tweak YAToon just so, it gives a nice specular line and gradation. Combine the two together and voila! No need for secondary post effects.

I am, though, going to bring these renders into AE, duplicate and bring in a multiply function to see if that further brings out the subtle lines created by YAToon.

A great thing about bringing the two together is that YAToon does not look particularly well in animation, but Toon Pro looks fantastic. So having Toon Pro there as a buffer really helps the overdramatic pixelation YAToon likes to create when the character is moving.

Another issue with Toon Pro’s rendering (line) function is the same issue that occurs with the non-photorealistic render function—It creates a very specific line assortment for eyelashes. Since I draw all of my own eyelashes, they do not in any way mesh with the line art that the rendering functions create.

 

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Posted: 14 October 2012 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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hmm I posted a fix for this in the thread where you asked the question you obviously didn’t see reply…

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Posted: 14 October 2012 06:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Here’s the renders with a background. The way I like to do backgrounds is essentially a toon pro line render with no adjustment to the shaders. I then throw it into PS and pass it through some filters. In a perfect world it would feel like painted (ish) background with cell character. Close enough considering the very low effort needed to achieve the look.

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Posted: 14 October 2012 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I like what you can do by just applying a black solid and clicking the ole Multiply button. smile

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