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Orientation v Rotation
Posted: 11 October 2012 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Can someboby please explain to me the difference between the orientation and rotation in properties. They both seem to do the same thing making one of them completely useless.

TIA
Ernie

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Posted: 11 October 2012 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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HI Titanic401
Welcome smile

I suppose you could say that the Object Centre, and the Object Hot-point, are both the same, and that the object Size and Scaling were also the same thing. and you’re right,. the Orientation of the object, and the Rotation, look as if they do the same thing,.
but they do the same thing,.. in a different way.

The Orientation is independent of the objects Hot-point.

The Rotation uses the objects hot-point as the centre. irrespective of the objects orientation to the hot-point.

for example,. a moon orbiting a planet, can be done by offsetting the moon orientation to the hot-point, and then rotating the object (or adding a spin modifier)  to make it appear to orbit the larger planet.
 
The rotation of the object can be animated
The object orientation can’t

in the screen capture below, you can see that the object orientation has been changed, and the objects hot-point is now outside of the object,. but the object rotation is still at zero.

Hope it helps smile

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orientation1.jpg
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Posted: 11 October 2012 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Too bad the hot point can’t be rotated independently, which would be helpful in many ways.

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Posted: 11 October 2012 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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You can do that by creating a Group,. or Animated group.
Then you have one real object inside a virtual container “group”

The object can be animated ,... and so can the group.

for example:, a figure is an “Animated group”,.. The figure can have a “walking in place” animation,. and the entire figure “group” can be animated to follow a motion path, so the figure appears to be walking around the scene.

smile

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Posted: 11 October 2012 03:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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3DAGE - 11 October 2012 01:37 PM

The Orientation is independent of the objects Hot-point.
The Rotation uses the objects hot-point as the centre. irrespective of the objects orientation to the hot-point.

I’m observing a different behavior.
I find that the Orientation parameter always moves an object relative to the object’s Hot Point position, and the Rotation parameter can move the object relative to either the Hot Point or the Object’s Center, depending on the selection made in the drop-down menu.

This is for the Mac version of Carrara 8.5.

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orientation-rotation.png
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-Dean

DAZ Gallery: http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#users/1922/

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Posted: 11 October 2012 03:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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3DAGE - 11 October 2012 02:04 PM

You can do that by creating a Group,. or Animated group.
Then you have one real object inside a virtual container “group”

The object can be animated ,... and so can the group.

for example:, a figure is an “Animated group”,.. The figure can have a “walking in place” animation,. and the entire figure “group” can be animated to follow a motion path, so the figure appears to be walking around the scene.

smile

I’m talking about rotating the hot point so I can, for example, rotate a set of cowl flaps on a WWII fighter all at once yet maintain each flap’s angle according to the cowl itself.

I hope you understood that…

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Posted: 11 October 2012 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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HI de3an smile

yes, there’s an option for what to rotate around, .. I forgot that . oops.
If you adjust the orientation values, it moves the object, not the hot point.
the hotpoint remains where it was.
...is what I was trying to say


Titanic401 smile

You can use CAPS LOCK on and off, to release or lock the hotpoint, so you can move it to a specific point , such as the edge of a door, then Lock it there, so that the object pivots at that point.
You can also set constraints to limit the motion range of the object.
Once you have those in place you should be able to select and rotate several object at the same time, wherther you dfo that manually using the value inputs, or directly using the rotate tool.

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Posted: 11 October 2012 06:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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That’s what I did, but unfortunately that doesn’t change the orientation of the hot point itself and the flaps wouldn’t move with respect to their original closed angle.

Does that make sense?

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Posted: 11 October 2012 08:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I think what Titanic401 is trying to do is create a ring of “flaps” that can be pivoted in and out in unison, without having to adjust each one individually. (Google for images of “cowl flaps”)

I thought perhaps a Track Modifier could work, but was not successful. Perhaps this is why Fenric created the Enhanced Remote Control plug-in for Carrara.
(http://www.daz3d.com/shop/carrara-enhanced-remote-control)

Below is the model I was testing with. In this case all of the flaps were rotated individually.

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cowl_flaps.png
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Posted: 11 October 2012 08:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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oh looks like a job for a boring old morph and replicator (just use two morphs and you won’t lose much of the flap width mid morph)

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Posted: 11 October 2012 10:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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For the flap model, bones could be used on each individual flap….don’t have time to model & test right now, hopefully someone else can chime in if that is what titanic401 is trying to do.

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Posted: 12 October 2012 12:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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de3an - 11 October 2012 08:01 PM

I think what Titanic401 is trying to do is create a ring of “flaps” that can be pivoted in and out in unison, without having to adjust each one individually. (Google for images of “cowl flaps”)

I thought perhaps a Track Modifier could work, but was not successful. Perhaps this is why Fenric created the Enhanced Remote Control plug-in for Carrara.
(http://www.daz3d.com/shop/carrara-enhanced-remote-control)

Below is the model I was testing with. In this case all of the flaps were rotated individually.

That’s exactly what I’m trying to accomplish.

It would be so much easier if I could get the hot point for each flap set to the same angle as a flap, I know one way I could possibly use but being able to just rotate the hot point would be so much easier.

I would have thought using local object space would and probably should have taken care of this, but unfortunately it didn’t.

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Posted: 12 October 2012 05:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Hi Titanic401 smile

Apologies for my tardy reply, ...I had to sleep smile

I remember Richard asking this same question a couple of months ago, but I couldn’t recall the answer last night.


When you add the Axis Constraint to the wing flaps,. you can set the values for X, Y , and Z (this will visibly change the alignment of the objects hot-point (see pic).
You can also set the limits of rotation for the main axis.

Hope it helps.


Hi de3an smile

I’m thinking that a target helper,. in the centre of the ship,.. would possibly work to adjust all the flaps ,... just guessing
Fenrics ERC is also a good option.

I suppose the way the flaps work depends on whether it’s a flying saucer, or a more conventional (fixed wing) WW2 aircraft,
but in either case, setting the constraint allows you to angle or alter the alignment of the hot point.

Headwax and McGuiver are also right , you could do it with Bones or Morphs, ...both methods will work, and are equally valid.

but the hot-point alignment, and the angle of rotation limits can be adjusted when you apply the constraints.

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angle_constraint.jpg
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Posted: 12 October 2012 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Hello all,

Got me thinking so i had a play, this issue can actually be worked around in the
Vertex modeller.

  Heres a similar model with flaps where the hotpoints are correctly orientated
in relation to the flaps themselves, they are flapping around a bit but they can
easily be tied to produce aircraft style flaps to name but one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox3oDJC1tuU


LOL

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Posted: 12 October 2012 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I was trying to use the “Axis Constraint” but couldn’t figure out how to select the desired axis. It seems to be permanently set to allow rotation around the Z axis only.

Anyone know how to select the axis?

Here’s what the manual has to say (the red highlight is mine):

Axis
The Axis constraint lets a child object rotate around its hot point on one of the three axes. Examples of the limited axis constraint in the human body are the elbow and the knee. The rotation options are:

Locked - prevents any movement on the selected axis.
Limited - allows you to place limitations on movement in both directions.
Free - lets the object move anywhere along that axis.

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axis_constraint.png
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DAZ Gallery: http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#users/1922/

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Posted: 12 October 2012 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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HI,.. I forgot to upload this earlier,. it’s a Zoom in of the screen-capture above.

you can set any axis by adjusting the others,. so in this case where the wing model is level to the floor, I need the X value to be 90 degrees so the constraint “gizmo”  flips up to the vertical.
I’ve then limited the amount that the “Flap” model can rotate.

hope that makes sense..

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angle_constraint_zoom.jpg
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