Another reason I hate painted on brows...

wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Has anyone noticed that when you're using Subsurface Scattering that your eyebrows lose their definition so much that they're barely there and look like they're a smudge? UHG! It's just another reason I despise the practice of painting eyebrows onto the main texture! I always hated it, because it always killed the ability of render artists to change the brows out, but this is just another reason why I think it's a horrible idea.

«1

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,432
    edited December 1969

    Have you tried using the skin textures as a SSS strength map? If the brows are darker than the est of the skin that might help a bit.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    That's what I do 100% of the time. The results are better, but still unsatisfactory.

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 45
    edited May 2012

    I'm with ya 100% I also cannot stand burned-in highlights on the skin/cornea/iris either, but I do see the artistic merit for them to be there, as they're excellent for stylistic renders, plus they're already included in the photo ref sites for the most part. That's why I like Daz's textures as they don't have the highlights, nor breasts/glutes burned into the texture either...I forgot to mention those black nostrils, because they look completely unnatural if you're trying to go for realism over the stylistic approach...

    However, the nostrils/eyebrows are easy enough to fix, simply edit them out with the stamp/healing brush. ;-)

    !_TZOKHEGIN2.jpg
    100 x 78 - 8K
    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 815
    edited May 2012

    Wancow, are you a Daz Studio user? I could whip you up some fibermesh brows pretty quickly if that's the case, and they'd naturally follow Genesis' morphs.


    Facial fibermesh for Daz figures in poser is a bit more of a hassle. With a figure like Apollo, I could just morphing clothes all of the morphs in and make the facial hair superconforming, since there's a one to one relationship between the dials and the morphs they affect. V4 and M4 are much less direct in that many of their facial morphs are actually control dials which affect multiple morphs at once. You try to transfer that using morphing clothes and the results are pretty ugly.


    But yeah, I could make Genesis brows in both masculine and feminine varieties in less than a couple hours, I'm sure.

    Post edited by JoeQuick on
  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 619
    edited December 1969

    Joequick said:
    Wancow, are you a Daz Studio user? I could whip you up some fibermesh brows pretty quickly if that's the case, and they'd naturally follow Genesis' morphs.


    Facial fibermesh for Daz figures in poser is a bit more of a hassle. With a figure like Apollo, I could just morphing clothes all of the morphs in and make the facial hair superconforming, since there's a one to one relationship between the dials and the morphs they affect. V4 and M4 are much less direct in that many of their facial morphs are actually control dials which affect multiple morphs at once. You try to transfer that using morphing clothes and the results are pretty ugly.


    But yeah, I could make Genesis brows in both masculine and feminine varieties in less than a couple hours, I'm sure.

    If that were a product, I'd buy it. I do have the Genesis Eyebrows, and they work fairly well, but they don't conform completely to all morphs (eg. Chibi-Boy). I haven't tested it extensively but I think the farther you go off "norm" the more problems.

    A set of eyebrows that worked with any (or even most) morphs with both a male and female style would certainly be worth purchasing to me.

    -- Walt Sterdan

  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 815
    edited December 1969

    Here are some eyebrows. They're texture-less, so read the description for some pointers on how to set up your shaders (basically, save the shader setup from your favorite hair prop as a shader preset, strip out the textures, and then apply it to the brows).

    They're 10,000 poly, so I wouldn't fill a room with them. At their base resolution they're composed of three sided strands of polys three polygons in length.

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/62327/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Free-Genesis-Fibermesh-Eyebrows

    browgirl.jpg
    500 x 650 - 132K
  • KerWarKerWar Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you so much! :-)

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    wsterdan said:

    If that were a product, I'd buy it. I do have the Genesis Eyebrows, and they work fairly well, but they don't conform completely to all morphs (eg. Chibi-Boy). I haven't tested it extensively but I think the farther you go off "norm" the more problems.

    A set of eyebrows that worked with any (or even most) morphs with both a male and female style would certainly be worth purchasing to me.

    -- Walt Sterdan

    DITTO DITTO DITTO! Yes, am a D|S4 User (and huge Genesis Sycophant)

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Joequick said:
    Here are some eyebrows. They're texture-less, so read the description for some pointers on how to set up your shaders (basically, save the shader setup from your favorite hair prop as a shader preset, strip out the textures, and then apply it to the brows).

    Amazing! Thank you so VERY MUCH!

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    this is a simple test with the Die Trying Eyebrow Arc Morph! THEY WORK YYEEEEHAW!

    eyebrowtest.jpg
    599 x 359 - 50K
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited May 2012

    Joequick, I'm looking at the UVS in UVMapper and it shows that some of the geometries are outside of the zone, which means they'll tile... would you like me to correct them, and extend them over the entire UVS area (they currently only occupy half) and send it to you?

    Post edited by wancow on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited May 2012

    Actually... here's something else I could do, is create a UVS file, assuming I could figure out how it works, to apply to the new eyebrows.

    Here's something that might work since we could make them thinner with transparency:


    That said: IF you decide to make say, six different brows and put them up for sale: I WILL BE YOUR FIRST CUSTOMER!




    Edited to remove over-sized images http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/510_98/

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    More Die Trying morphs, this time with the Bree No Brow texture.

    One thing I did notice, I tried the Pose morphs, and those don't seem to get along with the new brows. Not a huge problem, as we happen to have this neat thing called "deformers" but in a product it'll be nice if they had those too.

    Can anyone clue me in as to how to apply a UVS file to a mesh in D|S4?

    eyebrowtest-bree.jpg
    599 x 599 - 94K
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 45
    edited May 2012

    Thanks a lot for the free eyebrows, not everything should be up for sale, as there are those of us who can't dispose of any of their income! :)

    !_TZOKHEGIN3.jpg
    100 x 78 - 8K
    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 815
    edited December 1969

    Thanks a lot for the free eyebrows, not everything should be up for sale, as there are those of us who can't dispose of any of their income! :)


    Don't go thinking I'm particularly saintly. I'm all about making money on product. I just don't feel comfortable selling things where I know the software has done more of the work than I have. I've seen a fair deal of people use a lot of hyperbole, when really genesis fibermesh hair is very simple to make. The only real hurdle is the cost of entry, purchasing zBrush.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Joe, NOT kidding. You make a set of these that work with the pose morphs and are easily textured: I'll bloody well buy them and parade the product around everywhere I can! They're bloody amazing to me!

  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 45
    edited June 2012

    Joequick said:
    Thanks a lot for the free eyebrows, not everything should be up for sale, as there are those of us who can't dispose of any of their income! :)


    Don't go thinking I'm particularly saintly. I'm all about making money on product. I just don't feel comfortable selling things where I know the software has done more of the work than I have. I've seen a fair deal of people use a lot of hyperbole, when really genesis fibermesh hair is very simple to make. The only real hurdle is the cost of entry, purchasing zBrush.



    That's exactly why I'm glad it's free as it doesn't take 5 hour to make, that said, if you were to take 5 hours to craft a product, then by all means, go for it! I suppose that I'm against paying for something that has been made with the same effort as walking to the kitchen and opening a can of pop!

    !_TZOKHEGIN3.jpg
    100 x 78 - 8K
    Post edited by takezo_3001 on
  • Mr Gneiss GuyMr Gneiss Guy Posts: 458
    edited December 1969

    Joequick said:
    Thanks a lot for the free eyebrows, not everything should be up for sale, as there are those of us who can't dispose of any of their income! :)


    Don't go thinking I'm particularly saintly. I'm all about making money on product. I just don't feel comfortable selling things where I know the software has done more of the work than I have. I've seen a fair deal of people use a lot of hyperbole, when really genesis fibermesh hair is very simple to make. The only real hurdle is the cost of entry, purchasing zBrush.



    That's exactly why I'm glad it's free as it doesn't take 5 hour to make, that said, if you were to take 5 hours to craft a product, then by all means, go for it! I suppose that I'm against paying for something that has been made with the same effort as walking to the kitchen and opening a can of pop!

    It depends, if you have neither the kitchen, or the can of pop, it can be worth buying one that someone has made. :-) But Joe is awesome. Don't let anyone tell you different.

  • Type 0 NegativeType 0 Negative Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Have you tried using the skin textures as a SSS strength map? If the brows are darker than the est of the skin that might help a bit.

    anyone
    .
    question 1
    I'm still trying to get a grasp on this, I've been keeping Subsurface Strength between 10% and 15% does that sound about right?
    .
    question 2
    Shold we also be using the skin textures, pluging them in as maps for Subsurface Color? Leave the color bar white and just plug in the texture.

  • edited December 1969

    wsterdan said:
    Joequick said:
    Wancow, are you a Daz Studio user? I could whip you up some fibermesh brows pretty quickly if that's the case, and they'd naturally follow Genesis' morphs.


    Facial fibermesh for Daz figures in poser is a bit more of a hassle. With a figure like Apollo, I could just morphing clothes all of the morphs in and make the facial hair superconforming, since there's a one to one relationship between the dials and the morphs they affect. V4 and M4 are much less direct in that many of their facial morphs are actually control dials which affect multiple morphs at once. You try to transfer that using morphing clothes and the results are pretty ugly.


    But yeah, I could make Genesis brows in both masculine and feminine varieties in less than a couple hours, I'm sure.

    If that were a product, I'd buy it. I do have the Genesis Eyebrows, and they work fairly well, but they don't conform completely to all morphs (eg. Chibi-Boy). I haven't tested it extensively but I think the farther you go off "norm" the more problems.

    A set of eyebrows that worked with any (or even most) morphs with both a male and female style would certainly be worth purchasing to me.

    -- Walt Sterdan


    I'm just trying the genesis eyebrows for the first time and (though I've only tried with the Elite Lana texture so far) they don't really seem to blend in very well at all :/

  • Type 0 NegativeType 0 Negative Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Have you tried using the skin textures as a SSS strength map? If the brows are darker than the est of the skin that might help a bit.

    Stupid question here. This is a cool tip. Would you reccomend doing this for the whole body or is it safe to only do this on the face?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,432
    edited November 2012

    Applying SS to only some areas will look odd - if the skin is visible, of course. Or if you mean applying the diffuse map, then again you want continuity so yes if you try it on the head and it works you'll also want to do it on the body - watching for places wheer the map is light but SSS should be low.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Cybersox13Cybersox13 Posts: 2,999
    edited December 1969

    Hmm. I was going to mention that Hitomi has separate eyebrows and a "blank spot" on her brows. But now that I think about it, this sounds like something that could be solved pretty easily with the L.I.E. An opaque "cover" patch to obscure the original eyebrow and a second layer of add on eyebrows so you could get some really extreme Mr. Spock/Dr. McCoy/Corporal Klinger* eyebrow action going on.

    Of course, once either of the two new hair aps, LAMH or Garibaldi, finally make to the store we'll have an even better solution.

    (*And oddly enough, coincidentally, a Mr. Spock/Dr. McCoy/Corporal Klinger three-way just so happens to be the thing I LEAST want to see as a 3D render...)

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,278
    edited December 1969

    (*And oddly enough, coincidentally, a Mr. Spock/Dr. McCoy/Corporal Klinger three-way just so happens to be the thing I LEAST want to see as a 3D render...)

    And I'm out of brain bleach (it's Sunday evening and WV doesn't allow hard liquor sales on Sundays...). That statement needs 150 proof brain bleach...

  • Cybersox13Cybersox13 Posts: 2,999
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    (*And oddly enough, coincidentally, a Mr. Spock/Dr. McCoy/Corporal Klinger three-way just so happens to be the thing I LEAST want to see as a 3D render...)

    And I'm out of brain bleach (it's Sunday evening and WV doesn't allow hard liquor sales on Sundays...). That statement needs 150 proof brain bleach...

    Hey, how do you think I feel about it? My brain came up with the idea in the first place, so who else knows what else might come out of there? (And besides, it's no where near as bad as an Ed Asner, Danny Devito, Steve Buscemi and post-Boston Legal William Shatner five way... Bill's hairpiece being the fifth wheel... on a slip and slide covered with SpagehttiO's. Fortunately, no one's made a 3d model of individual spaghettiO's yet, so we're safe. I hope.)

  • KickAir 8PKickAir 8P Posts: 1,843
    edited December 1969

    Related to this topic, I've got a list going of products and freebies that include at least one no-eyebrow facetexture option.

  • Cybersox13Cybersox13 Posts: 2,999
    edited December 1969

    Related to this topic, I've got a list going of products and freebies that include at least one no-eyebrow facetexture option.

    Thank you!

  • Higgo78Higgo78 Posts: 15
    edited December 1969

    [quote
    They're 10,000 poly, so I wouldn't fill a room with them. At their base resolution they're composed of three sided strands of polys three polygons in length.

    http://www.sharecg.com/v/62327/view/21/DAZ-Studio/Free-Genesis-Fibermesh-Eyebrows


    Hi Joequick.

    These have been removed from sharecg. Do you still have them available? I am using custom face texture and need a set of brows....


    Cheers, Higgo78

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,425
    edited December 1969

    You do realise this thread is a year old?

  • Higgo78Higgo78 Posts: 15
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    You do realise this thread is a year old?

    Yes I do....is there a limit on what threads should be replied too? I am new and thought I would do the courtesy of replying to another thread instead of clogging the site full of noob questions....

Sign In or Register to comment.
Rocket Fuel