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question about omnifreaker Shaders and skin in Daz studio
Posted: 09 October 2012 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I’m trying to understand what is the right way to apply the omnifreaker shades to the surfaces tab in daz

I was reading in the wiki that : UberSurface is an upgrade of the HumanSurface shader and has all of the same controls with the addition of layered anisotropic specular and diffuse roughness.

so my question is what do I apply to the skin surfaces tab the HumanSurface shader or the UberSurface? assuming i’m using v4,2
how are they different from each other ?

I also saw there is an upgrade to the UberSurface , UberSurface2 is that worth getting ?

until now I was trying to work with the pwSurface 2 in daz 4.5 but each time I choose the skin and apply the pwSurface I noticed some parts of the skin will get the pwSurface 2 while other will get the Omhuman Shader , I think it’s some kind of a bug with the program

hope some one can help me with my questions , thank you .

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Posted: 09 October 2012 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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It’s an upgrade as in an actual ‘better’ product.  Not in that you have to apply HSS first and then US…US2 has an option to ‘upgrade in place’...it won’t alter any existing settings, just add the new ones that US2 has.

You can apply either one.

US2 is US + US…in other words, two layers, which can provide some fantastic effects…like adding a ‘grunge’ layer on the second ‘channel’.  ‘Worth’ is relative to how much you are going to use it.  Are you looking to do very detailed, ‘gritty’/realistic renders…then, yeah, it’s probably worth it.

As to the last part…not sure, unless that’s what the material had before you started applying pwSurface and that particular surface didn’t ‘take’ for some reason.  If you isolate the specific surface that has OmHuman and try applying pwSurface, does it change?

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Posted: 09 October 2012 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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thank you for your comment - noted to myself smile

mjc1016 - 09 October 2012 11:20 AM

As to the last part…not sure, unless that’s what the material had before you started applying pwSurface and that particular surface didn’t ‘take’ for some reason.  If you isolate the specific surface that has OmHuman and try applying pwSurface, does it change?

I applied the skin first . than I tried to select all the skin surfaces I wanted to change by clicking first the ctrl key and choosing selected surfaces and choosing the ignore option , if i select them one by one and apply the pwSurface it does work but only takes longer .

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Posted: 09 October 2012 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Um, not exactly… there was a long discussion about this previously, don’t have the link atm. I tried ‘upgrading’ to US2… it doesn’t work. The settings do not ‘upgrade in place’ as it is an entirely different shader then the HSS. It may be worth getting, only you can tell that as it does have some features, but ‘upgrading in place’ from US1 or HSS is not one of them.

I should clarify one point, it does allow one to ‘upgrade’ with the settings the same, but the actual shader acts different so that keeping the same settings ‘will not’ yield the results one expects. It in fact degraded the quality of the skin I had. We (as I believe it was eventually consentual) came to the conclusion one could probably get at least as good if not better results eventually, but it would take some in depth playing to do so.

Here, I found the thread with complete discussion and images.

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Posted: 09 October 2012 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Upgrading from US to US2 works…from HSS to US2,,,not really. And ‘upgrade’ from anything else, better off control clicking and choosing ‘Ignore’.

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Posted: 09 October 2012 06:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Read through the thread. There were changes in US1 to US2 also. It might work for some situations but it is sure to give results different then expected in some instances.

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Posted: 10 October 2012 12:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Gedd - 09 October 2012 06:06 PM

Read through the thread. There were changes in US1 to US2 also. It might work for some situations but it is sure to give results different then expected in some instances.

thank you for this thread, I think I came across it few months ago but was too new to the program to even understand what you all been talking about smile glad to see I made some progress since than, this was very helpful to me , I also tried working with the Tamesis textures a few days ago because I liked the textures but the result I got was not what I was looking for .

I noticed that using the V4 elite textures gave me better results and the render time was faster.
I now tried to use again the Tamesis texture,settings Szark was talking about with US1 and studio light pro fashion lights , but the render time takes forever and the result was way to bright, also the eyes completely messed up even I didn’t choose them at all and didn’t apply the shader to them . I now will try different lights to see if this will change anything .

thank you for the help.

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Posted: 10 October 2012 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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ok so after some playing around this is the result I got so far, no lights were used in this render , since every light I tried to add to the scene made the skin looks too bright ,I used the Tamesis textures and the default render settings and the Uber1 .

any advises what I need to change in my settings of the skin so I can add lights without it looks too bright ? or any other advises at all will help .

 

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Posted: 10 October 2012 09:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I’m guessing you may be adding lights at full strength which is why it is too bright. If you add a single light and set it to 10% strength I guarantee you it will not be to bright.

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Posted: 10 October 2012 09:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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thank you for your comment , can I ask what kind of lights will work better with this ?
I find the UberEnvironment Light way too strong and also they take longer to render , I think they give very good results apart from the noise they create and lake in shadows , maybe I don’t know yet how to work with the shadows in the UberEnvironment Light settings ,
I tried using the studio pro lights by dream light but I don’t like the fact they use tons of lights which again takes forever to render and they all using deep shadow map and again takes longer to render

is there a set of lights some one here can recommend me that is updated with daz 4.5 pro ?

I understand that the best thing probably to do is to set the lights on my own which it that case is there a point in buying lights at all ?

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Posted: 10 October 2012 10:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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RedHeadLilith - 10 October 2012 09:56 PM

thank you for your comment , can I ask what kind of lights will work better with this ?
I find the UberEnvironment Light way too strong and also they take longer to render , I think they give very good results apart from the noise they create and lake in shadows , maybe I don’t know yet how to work with the shadows in the UberEnvironment Light settings ,
I tried using the studio pro lights by dream light but I don’t like the fact they use tons of lights which again takes forever to render and they all using deep shadow map and again takes longer to render

is there a set of lights some one here can recommend me that is updated with daz 4.5 pro ?

I understand that the best thing probably to do is to set the lights on my own which it that case is there a point in buying lights at all ?

The UE is a great ENVIRONMENTAL light.  As such you only place it in the scene once…and it provides, depending on the setting a uniform ‘dome’ of light to using an image as a ‘light map’.  There’s a host of settings to tweak to get it to render without the noise…but not much to do, other than throw more CPU cores at it, to get to render ‘fast’.

One rule of thumb…‘fast’ is the inverse of ‘quality’ when it comes to rendering (let me add, before all the Octane fans jump all over me), for most renderers.  Yeah, there are GPU (video card) renderers that are a lot faster than a CPU using one.

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Posted: 10 October 2012 11:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Yeah, there are GPU (video card) renderers that are a lot faster than a CPU using one

this is my video card setting showing in daz studio , as far as I understand if I use my video card to render and not the CPU it will not render any shadows
can you tell me if my card is compatible to render fast with good quality and also create shadows ? and if it can render shadows what setting in the advanced panel i need to change ?

Current OpenGL Version:
4.2.0


OpenGL Provider:
NVIDIA Corporation


Hardware:
GeForce GTX 550 Ti/PCIe/SSE2


Features:

MultiTexturing
Supported

Shadow Map
Supported

Hardware Antialiasing
Supported

OpenGL Shading Language
Supported

Pixel Buffer
Supported


Pixel Buffer Size
Not Enabled


Maximum Number of Lights
8

Number of Texture Units
4

Maximum Texture Size
16384 x 16384


thank you all for all your help ! grin

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Posted: 11 October 2012 05:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Your video card is fine. The problem is that Lux/Reality takes much longer then UberEnvironment, and Octane is probably going to be to difficult to use as it is in its early stages and not ideal for someone without a lot of experience in working with external renderers. My personal opinion is that you want to start by learning UberEnvironment and the built in DS lights. Go through some videos on lighting, learn to add multiple lights and turn them down… etc.. If it’s too bright, the settings on the lights are too high. They work just like lights in the real world that way. If you put a 10kw bulb on someone irl, it’s going to be to bright… turn it down…

As for the settings in UberEnvironment, they are in posts on the forum (can use search) and in videos… etc… one just needs to take the time to read, go through videos…  Lighting is not something anyone can explain in a simple post.. it’s an art and it takes time to learn.

Btw, the noise in UE is usually from the ‘Render’ settings, not the light settings. Check your shading rate under the render settings, it should be between 0.4 and 0.2 usually. The default is something like 1 I think.

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Posted: 11 October 2012 06:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Here is a render showing UberEnvironment as the base lighting. It also has a Linear point light and a fill light. As you can see, it is not too bright and has no problems with shadows. It also took around 5 minutes to render at 1kx1k using an nVidia 9800gtx+ with only 512m memory on board, an i5 2.8mhz processer, 12meg main memory and Win7.

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Posted: 11 October 2012 07:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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thank you for your answer , actually this things I already knew just wanted to be sure again , I now fallowing the Learning UberEnvironment 2 Return To Topic

question 1 :

can you tell me please if I already have a sky map in the color section of the UberEnvironment 2 light parameters do I still need to place a skydome around my model ?

question 2 :

and if so does the place and size of my skydome have an affect on my scene? does it have to be around my model from ground level or on the middle of the plane ground I placed ?

question 3 :

my commuter system say I have i5 also it says I have 3.10 Ghz , how is this different from Mhz?

actually I saw by now videos of dreamlight , I probably need to watch them again , the videos there not touching so much about the UberEnvironment 2 lights
and from tests I was doing with the lights in different scenes I came to personal conclusion the better renders were with the UberEnvironment 2 light and not the 3 or 7 lights I placed in my scene according to dreamlight,

I hope it’a ok I ask all the question under this same post if not let me know and I will open a new topic, it’s just each time you answer me a new question pops in my brain
don’t want to start 10 new topics lol , I also saw there is this long section for beginners questions Daz Studio Basics 101. New Users help for starting with DS. but not sure all the questions I have to ask are for the beginners only .

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Posted: 11 October 2012 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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RedHeadLilith - 11 October 2012 07:34 AM

...my commuter system say I have i5 also it says I have 3.10 Ghz , how is this different from Mhz?...

Meant Ghz ;p

Gigahertz = Megahertz x 1000

As for lighting methods in the built in renderer (ie not Lux/Reality or Octane) different people will use different methods and it depends on what works for you. I prefer UberEnvironment also. adamr001 has a great workthrough of UberEnvironment that I recommend going through and trying the various settings yourself that he talks about.

My personal workflow tends to start with using UberEnvironment often for the base lighting and adding other lights when needed to highlight a certain area. Often times UE is enough, but getting the settings right is the challenge.

Many lightsets are built on UE and UberArea light as a base, such as Inane Glory’s and Latino’s light packages. They offer one click solutions to basic lighting but the are set up for specific lighting situations, with some flexibility built in. For some people these are the easiest and work well, but they are not going to give the same flexibility as totally doing one’s own light setup. If one isn’t interested in spending a lot of time learning the details of lighting in a given environment (3Dlight in this case) they offer a very good solution and will give superior results to hacking up a lighting set. It all depends on what one wants and needs.

As for the Dreamlight stuff, I don’t use LightDome or a lot of DS lights usually as I agree with you that this method is slower and doesn’t give as good results as UberEnvironment based situations. A lot of the concepts that the Dreamlight training talks about is still relevant however I believe. I learned much from these videos and used them as a base. I just changed my workflow to include and center on UberEnvironment for the built in renderer.

All lighting and texturing changes when one change render engines. We will eventually change render engines (probably.) What we learn in one environment does not directly carry over to the new environment, but it does greatly enhance our understanding over having just used one (rendering environment) so the learning is not a waste of time imo. Also, there are times where old methods and tools will do things the new ones won’t… that’s pretty much true in any change of tools and methods, not just computer graphics.

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