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Let’s TALK ABOUT Superheroes/superheroines
Posted: 25 October 2012 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 196 ]
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riftwitch - 25 October 2012 02:19 PM
Knight22179 - 25 October 2012 09:13 AM
riftwitch - 24 October 2012 08:40 PM
K T Ong - 24 October 2012 05:56 PM
Knight22179 - 24 October 2012 11:55 AM

Yes, the Mandarin is going to appear and be the villian. Unfortunately, he’s a MAJOR MISCAST as the actor isn’t Asian when the Mandarin is. Why can’t Casting Directors do their freakin’ jobs right?

I can understand your frustration here. Hollywood often DOES mess up the stories of games and comics which they try to make into movies. (Just look at the two Street Fighter movies they did.) But then again, some Western actors/actresses do have an Asian look about them. smile (Dunno about the one acting as the Mandarin, though…)

I wonder if this Mandarin will have his rings on his fingers or embedded into his spine?...

Knight22179 - 24 October 2012 11:55 AM

Cool looking super-hero there. He must like blueberries. :D

Oh, absolutely. And probably blackcurrants, too. LOL

Well, the Mandarin is being played by Ben Kingsley, who has Indian ancestry on his father’s side. The Indian sub-continent is part of Asia, so technically he is Asian…

I’m sure that when most people use terms like Asian or Oriental to refer to race/ethnicity, they are talking about Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc.; any of the people with epicanthic folds, as a notable feature. In the comics, the Mandarin was half-Chinese, but I’m willing to cut the film makers a little slack. Asia is a huge place, including most of the Middle East; here’s a picture (admittedly very old) depicting some of the variety of humans who can be found there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Asiatiska_folk,_Nordisk_familjebok.jpg.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. smile

However, the Mandarin has always looked Asian in the comics. Although Ben is a superb actor, he doesn’t even look Asian. Plus, the guy is old. So, lot only did the Casting Director NOT do his job with the proper ethnic background, but he also hired an actor who’s too old. I like my heroes and villians to be as close as they can be to their comic counterparts. If they aren’t, it takes me right out of the movie. And the casting directors defense of casting Ben is nothing more than a lame excuse so he can sleep better at night.

Well, love it or hate it, Ben is who we’re getting. I suppose with a good enough performance, it wouldn’t matter if the Mandarin was played by a woman. We’ll just have to wait & see.

Very true. However, I don’t care if they give the best performance of their careers, it’s still the wrong choice.

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Posted: 25 October 2012 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 197 ]
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riftwitch - 25 October 2012 02:23 PM
Knight22179 - 25 October 2012 01:37 PM
K T Ong - 25 October 2012 09:18 AM
Knight22179 - 25 October 2012 09:13 AM

However, the Mandarin has always looked Asian in the comics. Although Ben is a superb actor, he doesn’t even look Asian. Plus, the guy is old. So, lot only did the Casting Director NOT do his job with the proper ethnic background, but he also hired an actor who’s too old. I like my heroes and villians to be as close as they can be to their comic counterparts. If they aren’t, it takes me right out of the movie.

Mostly agree. That’s why I felt funny about the X-Men movies. They just weren’t dressed the way they were in the (early) X-Men comics.

Hey, whom would you have nominated to play the role of the Mandarin, Chow Yun-Fatt maybe? Or John Lone? Just curious. smile

Actually, if the guy was young enough, I would have went with Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa (Played Shang Tsung in the Mortal Combat movie). If only he was 20yrs younger, he would have been PERFECT! Absolutely perfect for the role (the guy even LOOKS evil, you can’t tell me he wasn’t perfect for the role). As it is, they don’t care about age obviously since this isn’t the first time in the Iron Man trilogy they hired an actor who’s too old for the part (i.e. Robert). So they hired a 70yr old man, Ben, to play the role while Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, who is 62, is left unnoticed. Doesn’t make a lick of sense to me.

But…if I had been the casting director (if only!), I too would have left Cary-Hiroyuki unnoticed because I would have considered him too old. So, John Lone looks like he could pull it off a LOT better than Ben.

I don’t know who John Lone or Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa are, but I could see Chow Yun-Fat in the role.

I’m kind of on the fence about the X-men. I can understand wanting things to be as close to the comic as possible, but some visual things don’t seem to translate well from from page to screen. It would have been nice to see the mutants in the comic outfits we’re familiar with, but if they were going to change them for the movies, I think they made the right call.

Regarding X-Men, I agree with you on this one. Some of those X-Men costumes in the comics would look downright corny in live action. As cool as Wolverine’s yellow costume is, I shudder at the thought of Hugh Jackman wearing something like that. Great on paper, bad on screen.

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Genesis is head & shoulders above “Genesis 2” (or better known as BF2/BM2) and is the FAR superior figure. Why? It doesn’t suffer from the UN-necessary gender split

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Posted: 25 October 2012 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 198 ]
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K T Ong - 25 October 2012 06:49 PM

Turned out there was a list of Asian superheroes, too! grin

(Which includes several villains…)

I wonder how old they’re letting the Mandarin be in the Marvel universe at present? (If Nicholas Hammond really were Spiderman, Spidey would be in his 60’s now! Can superheroes still be as effective when they age?...)

One of my favorite Asian heroes is the female Dr. Light (not to be confused with her male counterpart, also called Dr. Light).

Really gonna have to do a texture of her costume one of these days for Genesis. smile

 

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Posted: 25 October 2012 11:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 199 ]
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With lotsa cleavage and bare thighz, of course… tongue rolleye

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Posted: 26 October 2012 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 200 ]
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Heh, so sorry K T ong, but Dr. Light never had that kind of costume. raspberry BOOYA! cheese

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Genesis is head & shoulders above “Genesis 2” (or better known as BF2/BM2) and is the FAR superior figure. Why? It doesn’t suffer from the UN-necessary gender split

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The Supersuit product comes with a Basic Supersuit. DAZ has finally fixed it’s UV’s. Re-Download now to receive the update. Thanks DAZ! smile

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Posted: 26 October 2012 07:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 201 ]
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Knight22179 - 25 October 2012 08:14 PM
riftwitch - 25 October 2012 02:19 PM
Knight22179 - 25 October 2012 09:13 AM
riftwitch - 24 October 2012 08:40 PM
K T Ong - 24 October 2012 05:56 PM
Knight22179 - 24 October 2012 11:55 AM

Yes, the Mandarin is going to appear and be the villian. Unfortunately, he’s a MAJOR MISCAST as the actor isn’t Asian when the Mandarin is. Why can’t Casting Directors do their freakin’ jobs right?

I can understand your frustration here. Hollywood often DOES mess up the stories of games and comics which they try to make into movies. (Just look at the two Street Fighter movies they did.) But then again, some Western actors/actresses do have an Asian look about them. smile (Dunno about the one acting as the Mandarin, though…)

I wonder if this Mandarin will have his rings on his fingers or embedded into his spine?...

Knight22179 - 24 October 2012 11:55 AM

Cool looking super-hero there. He must like blueberries. :D

Oh, absolutely. And probably blackcurrants, too. LOL

Well, the Mandarin is being played by Ben Kingsley, who has Indian ancestry on his father’s side. The Indian sub-continent is part of Asia, so technically he is Asian…

I’m sure that when most people use terms like Asian or Oriental to refer to race/ethnicity, they are talking about Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc.; any of the people with epicanthic folds, as a notable feature. In the comics, the Mandarin was half-Chinese, but I’m willing to cut the film makers a little slack. Asia is a huge place, including most of the Middle East; here’s a picture (admittedly very old) depicting some of the variety of humans who can be found there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Asiatiska_folk,_Nordisk_familjebok.jpg.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. smile

However, the Mandarin has always looked Asian in the comics. Although Ben is a superb actor, he doesn’t even look Asian. Plus, the guy is old. So, lot only did the Casting Director NOT do his job with the proper ethnic background, but he also hired an actor who’s too old. I like my heroes and villians to be as close as they can be to their comic counterparts. If they aren’t, it takes me right out of the movie. And the casting directors defense of casting Ben is nothing more than a lame excuse so he can sleep better at night.

Well, love it or hate it, Ben is who we’re getting. I suppose with a good enough performance, it wouldn’t matter if the Mandarin was played by a woman. We’ll just have to wait & see.

Very true. However, I don’t care if they give the best performance of their careers, it’s still the wrong choice.

Eh, I can’t really agree with that. Imho, what counts in the end is if it’s a good movie or not. Not if it looks exactly as it’s source material.

Of course, being from Europe, I know next to nothing about comic books and also don’t have such a strong emotional connection to them, so I generally don’t mind as much.

As for asian superheros…there is the female of the species http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_The_Boys#The_Female_.28of_the_Species.29
although she probably would rip your face off if you called her a ‘superhero’...
(and there goes my entire comic book knowledge in one post…)

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Posted: 26 October 2012 08:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 202 ]
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Barubary - 26 October 2012 07:28 AM

Of course, being from Europe, I know next to nothing about comic books and also don’t have such a strong emotional connection to them, so I generally don’t mind as much.

Which part of Europe? It’s such a big place. For all we know, you could be an exception. rolleyes

As for asian superheros…there is the female of the species http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_The_Boys#The_Female_.28of_the_Species.29
although she probably would rip your face off if you called her a ‘superhero’...

Going by the info provided at the link, she looks more like a supervillain to me (as with the other comparably nightmarish characters in the comic series). It’s good to know she finally kicked the bucket in #69.

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Posted: 27 October 2012 01:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 203 ]
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It’s interesting to know that in the DC universe Earth’s very first Green Lantern was a Chinese. His story was told in the 3-part miniseries Green Lantern Dragon Lord. The story betrays a serious lack of knowledge of Chinese history and culture, though! grin

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Posted: 27 October 2012 01:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 204 ]
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K T Ong - 27 October 2012 01:27 AM

It’s interesting to know that in the DC universe Earth’s very first Green Lantern was a Chinese. His story was told in the 3-part miniseries Green Lantern Dragon Lord. The story betrays a serious lack of knowledge of Chinese history and culture, though! grin

Historical inaccuracies in a comic? Inconceivable!

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Posted: 27 October 2012 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 205 ]
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K T Ong - 26 October 2012 08:45 PM
Barubary - 26 October 2012 07:28 AM

Of course, being from Europe, I know next to nothing about comic books and also don’t have such a strong emotional connection to them, so I generally don’t mind as much.

Which part of Europe? It’s such a big place. For all we know, you could be an exception. rolleyes


that’s true I guess :D I’m from Germany, when you say ‘comic’ around here, people think of Asterix, Lucky Luke, and maybe Mickey Mouse. Not to say that there’s absolutely not market for traditional superhero comics here or more mature comics, but I would say they’re definitely not as much of a ‘cultural good’ as for Americans.


I consider myself a nerd (and so does everyone else) and in my particular circle of nerd friends I am pretty much the comic book expert because I have read / used to read a whopping 3 comics (that is Spawn, Watchmen and The Boys). When the Green Lantern movie came out, I was the only one I know who had ever heard of Green Lantern before. No one knew ‘Watchmen’ and it took me quite a bit of effort to make make my friends go see the movie (although it payed off, they loved it). And if I told anyone here that there is a ‘Justice League’ movie coming, they’d be all like “Justice what?” :D


I can’t, of course, speak for the rest of Europe, but as I mentioned earlier, I have a hunch that for Americans comic books are a much bigger part of their culture (they are historically, of course), so I’d wager they’re probably not as big anywhere in Europe as they are in the states.


Which is a shame, I think, because it’s a very powerful medium. Tbh I don’t really get most ‘traditional’ superhero comics, because, frankly, with all the continuity problems and reboots, nothing that happens in there seems to be of any consequence (just my personal feelings, of course), but stuff like ‘Watchmen’ or ‘The Boys’? Those are big stories with great characters that, imho, easily keep up with most novels or movies.


Luckily, at least Manga still hold a small bridge head for, well, ‘graphic literature’ around here.


Of course, I may just misjudge the importance of comic books in America.

As for asian superheros…there is the female of the species http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_The_Boys#The_Female_.28of_the_Species.29
although she probably would rip your face off if you called her a ‘superhero’...

Going by the info provided at the link, she looks more like a supervillain to me (as with the other comparably nightmarish characters in the comic series). It’s good to know she finally kicked the bucket in #69.

nya, spoilers >.< and I even linked there myself >.<

but yeah, she is a complete psychopath, however she is standing on the side of the he…scratch that, on the side of those folks who keep the even more viscous folks in check. More a living weapon than a person: “[...]you simply aimed them at the target like a gun.”.

But then again, that’s what superheros do, don’t they? Using violence to keep in check those people they deem a threat to society.

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Posted: 27 October 2012 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 206 ]
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I’m not American myself either, actually (I live in Singapore and I’m of Chinese descent), and I’m not all that crazy about comics myself (or manga either). There are very few comics that appeal to me anymore nowadays—too much seems to have changed in their styles, content etc. The concept of superheroes still appeals strongly to me, though—and that’s what I’m discussing with everyone in this thread. smile

Barubary - 27 October 2012 08:19 AM

But then again, that’s what superheros do, don’t they? Using violence to keep in check those people they deem a threat to society.

Ummmm… I don’t remember the core DC and Marvel heroes/heroines doing things like ‘explosively eviscerating’ the baddies or ripping their faces off. Even if the baddies are supervillains. Most of the core DC and Marvel heroes/heroines do seem the morally respectable type. And they don’t only bash crooks; they do things like saving lives and stopping natural disasters, too.

I think violence to keep nasty people in check is regrettably a part of civilized human existence. And if you don’t have superheroes around to do that, then you’ll need some others to perform a similar task. I’m sure there are policemen where you live. wink

One more thing. There can sometimes admittedly be difficult moral ambiguities in judging whether someone should count as a baddie. But there are also many not-so-ambiguous cases in which the miscreant knows what s/he’s doing and what it will lead to. And it is this type of baddie that forms the staple of the superhero story. (Can there be any ambiguity as to Lex Luthor being a villain?)

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Posted: 27 October 2012 08:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 207 ]
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And let’s not forget the greatest, MIGHTIEST, MOST WONDERFUL superhero of them all…

CAPTAIN UNDERPANTS!! LOL LOL LOL

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Posted: 28 October 2012 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 208 ]
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K T Ong - 27 October 2012 09:36 AM

The concept of superheroes still appeals strongly to me, though—and that’s what I’m discussing with everyone in this thread. smile

That goes for me, too, I find it very interesting :D And I love discussions of any kind ^^

K T Ong - 27 October 2012 09:36 AM
Barubary - 27 October 2012 08:19 AM

But then again, that’s what superheros do, don’t they? Using violence to keep in check those people they deem a threat to society.

Ummmm… I don’t remember the core DC and Marvel heroes/heroines doing things like ‘explosively eviscerating’ the baddies or ripping their faces off. Even if the baddies are supervillains. Most of the core DC and Marvel heroes/heroines do seem the morally respectable type. And they don’t only bash crooks; they do things like saving lives and stopping natural disasters, too.

Oh, I completely agree. The levels of violence are totally different (and so are the ‘morals’ of the different heroes (although the few actually positive characters in ‘The Boys’, like Hughie, Starlight or Superduper all try to save lives and generally do the right thing, that what makes them positive)). But that doesn’t change the fact the superhero concept is pretty strongly tied to violence. Things wouldn’t be very entertaining otherwise, I guess smile And don’t get me wrong, there is nothing bad about this.


But it lies close to it’s core doesn’t it? I mean there are few superheroes who spend all their time working in soup kitchens or curing diseases or solving financial crisis :D Sure they prevent traffic accidents and natural disasters but I’m willing to bet that at the final of most big superhero stories, there’s at least one decent punch out to keep the audience awake. ^^

 

K T Ong - 27 October 2012 09:36 AM

I think violence to keep nasty people in check is regrettably a part of civilized human existence. And if you don’t have superheroes around to do that, then you’ll need some others to perform a similar task. I’m sure there are policemen where you live. wink

Yeah, I figured that what I said might also apply to policemen, but there is a difference: policemen to not deal with people they deem a threat to society. They - ideally ^^ - deal with people who break laws which were made by society and they are employed by society to fulfill that task. Superheroes on the other hand, afaik, tend to be vigilantes.


Of course they still use violence, when necessary. That’s what the state does, controlling violence is one of the core things that make a state. Just as you said, it’s a part of civilized human existence.


To some degree, I would assume, superheroes deal with a basic problem society and law making and enforcing do have. You can’t prevent crime. You can’t punish every crime. Not every punishment is just. They’re broadsword approaches to regulating the lives of millions of individual cases. Wouldn’t it be great if there was a wise Superman not only able but willing and smart enough to supply justice where policemen and judges and politicians can only fail? That’s not all there is to the superhero concept, but I think it’s a part of it. In that way they are fundamentally incompatible with reality. Played straight, superheroes are like the justice version of the land of milk and honey.

K T Ong - 27 October 2012 09:36 AM

One more thing. There can sometimes admittedly be difficult moral ambiguities in judging whether someone should count as a baddie. But there are also many not-so-ambiguous cases in which the miscreant knows what s/he’s doing and what it will lead to. And it is this type of baddie that forms the staple of the superhero story. (Can there be any ambiguity as to Lex Luthor being a villain?)

Sure, but like Superman, Lex Luthor is a fictional character. I guess superhero stories would be far less entertaining if the villains were not, well, evil. It’s a fantasy after all. I guess at this point in time mist important villains have a solid back stories and even relatable motivations - and that’s great - but I agree that in the end, there’s probably a lot of ‘black and white’. Everything else might actually end up challenging the whole superhero concept. If Superman was to beat up a decent Lex Luthor with a relatable goal, Superman would be the villain. Or it would reach a conclusion that could no longer be solved by just punching someone. I’m sure there are superhero comics like this and I think this would be a sign of a comics maturity, but it would definitely challenge superhero cliche, wouldn’t it?

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Posted: 28 October 2012 04:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 209 ]
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Been lurking this thread just a quick comment on the Mandarin.

I the old Iron Man animated series they colored him green.  This was deliberate as Marvel didn’t want the character to appear to be of Asian heritage and the same animators were told to do the same thing for other characters, make them not fit any identifiable racial profile. for other characters in various series the studio worked on.

The animators even did the green skin for Ming the Merciless in the Defenders of the Earth animated series.  Marvel did the animation even though none of the characters are Marvel ones.  The green skin and changes to characters in oother projects ries the animators reason is mentioned in the commentary on on of the DVDs for that series.

Marvel has said that they are trying to make many characters and things in the series represent a mulch-cultural background,and not limit characters to a specific race.  Many characters are undergoing changes as to how they appear because of that in movie versions, etc.  to fit how Marvel wants things to go.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 210 ]
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K T Ong - 25 October 2012 06:49 PM

Turned out there was a list of Asian superheroes, too! grin

(Which includes several villains…)

I wonder how old they’re letting the Mandarin be in the Marvel universe at present? (If Nicholas Hammond really were Spiderman, Spidey would be in his 60’s now! Can superheroes still be as effective when they age?...)

I was surprised at how many of these characters I recognized. Some of them bring back a lot of fond memories.

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