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Let’s TALK ABOUT Superheroes/superheroines
Posted: 08 October 2012 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Considering that there’s a long thread here on rendering superheroes, I thought I might start another one in which we just talk about them for the fun of it. Let’s just discuss the following:

1.  Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines appeal the most to you, and why?

2.  Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines turn you off, and why?

3.  What sort of things do you look for in a superhero/ine? Is appearance everything to you, or how ‘badass’ s/he is (as in how good s/he is against his/her foes), or the kind of person s/he is (morally impeccable like Superman, or bad-tempered like the Hulk, or arrogant like Namor etc), or the concept of the superhero/ine (whether s/he’s a mutant, magic-based, uses all sorts of futuristic gadgets, is a god/dess etc), or a bit of all these?

4.  If YOU could have FOUR superpowers, what would they be?

5.  Have you ever dreamt of superheroes/superheroines in your sleep?

Please don’t feel that you have to answer all the questions above (and feel free to bring in your own discussion topics as long as they’re about those guys and gals in comic books running/swimming/flying around in spandex smile ). I have my own answers, but for now how about sharing yours first?

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Posted: 08 October 2012 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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K T Ong - 08 October 2012 10:25 AM

Considering that there’s a long thread here on rendering superheroes, I thought I might start another one in which we just talk about them for the fun of it. Let’s just discuss the following:

1.  Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines appeal the most to you, and why?

2.  Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines turn you off, and why?

3.  What sort of things do you look for in a superhero/ine? Is appearance everything to you, or how ‘badass’ s/he is (as in how good s/he is against his/her foes), or the kind of person s/he is (morally impeccable like Superman, or bad-tempered like the Hulk, or arrogant like Namor etc), or the concept of the superhero/ine (whether s/he’s a mutant, magic-based, uses all sorts of futuristic gadgets, is a god/dess etc), or a bit of all these?

4.  If YOU could have FOUR superpowers, what would they be?

5.  Have you ever dreamt of superheroes/superheroines in your sleep?

Please don’t feel that you have to answer all the questions above (and feel free to bring in your own discussion topics as long as they’re about those guys and gals in comic books running/swimming/flying around in spandex smile ). I have my own answers, but for now how about sharing yours first?

1. What appeals to me is what kind of personality do they have. Are they inspirational? Do they go by a good moral code? Will they stick with their morals? Of course, I love their costumes too. Depending on how cool or bad it looks, that will draw me in or immedietly make me lose interest.

2. What really turns me off is an excessive amount of cleavage and bare legs on women! To me, that’s an immediate turn off. Sorry, but I don’t like Super-Heroines looking like hookers when their costumes are nothing more than eye candy. Others love it, but I hate it. I also hate high heels. Why on EARTH would any super-hero wear high heels, especially if they have superspeed?! Makes ZERO sense to me! Do you know how hard it is to run in those things?! She’d be getting sprained ankles all the time! Oh, and I HATE the color combination of green and red together. That’s another turn off for me. Looks soooooooooo UGLY!

3. I kind of touched upon this already. I look for a little bit of everything. I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC’s Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.

4. Heh, four powers huh? ONE: The ability to create almost anything with my imagination (made of hard light constructs) like a GL power ring. TWO: Force Fields. THREE: Flight. FOUR: Energy Blast.

5. Yep! Many times I’ve dreamed of being a Super-Hero. Several times I was having a normal run-of-the-mill dream when all of a sudden I open my shirt to reveal an S shield and I start flying. *LOL* Then when I wake up, I wonder, “Oooook, where did that come from?!”

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Genesis is head & shoulders above “Genesis 2” (or better known as BF2/BM2) and is the FAR superior figure. Why? It doesn’t suffer from the UN-necessary gender split

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Posted: 08 October 2012 11:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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1 ) I tend to prefer Supers that are more dynamic, and less angsty. Case in point? Early Nightcrawler, especially during the earlier days of Excalibur, is awesome. Grumpy whiny angsty Nightcrawler before they killed him off for no good reason? Sucks.

2 ) Super angsty angst is a bad thing, as is a “hero” who is little better than the villains he fights. A little angst is okay, but if the entire story is “My dog died, my girlfriend left me, and I can never turn off my powers”, that’s not a superhero, that’s a Country Music song. And if your superhero is named “Bloodspray”, “Deathbringer”, or “Slaughterfist”, that is NOT a hero. It’s an Anti-hero at best.

3 ) I tend to look at the overall picture first. For example, Spider-man usually breaks my rule about “Angsty Angst”, but makes up for it by having a more realistic overall personality than most characters. Captain America may be 100% cheese on the surface, but (especially when written by Gruenwald in the 80’s) is far more fascinating a character than you would expect. And a hero does not exist in a vacuum. If “Superultramegaman”, with the Kryptonion style powerset and more, fights mere muggers and the occasional bank robber, meh. If he fights things that would make Cthulhu wet himself, then it might be a good bit more interesting.

4 ) 4 just might be too many. Definitely flight… superhuman reflexes… regeneration… and maybe if I had to have a fourth, Super Strength?  Also, are we assuming they include all the ‘required secondary powers’? For example, let’s take super speed. Okay, I can now run at 500 mph. Can my leg bones avoid shattering at the pace? Do I have the ability to maneuver and react normally at that speed? If it’s closer to 5000 mph, am I resistant to the friction engendered? Do I cause sonic booms or can I suppress that? Would my passage leave massive destruction in my wake from athmospheric effects?

5 ) Every time I get close to lucid dreaming, I end up either being able to fly, being stronger than anything else in my dream, or both.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Knight22179 - 08 October 2012 11:02 AM

What really turns me off is an excessive amount of cleavage and bare legs on women! To me, that’s an immediate turn off.

Same here. To me that’s just cheap and exploitative commercialism. I understand the Japanese love such things, though. And I actually like it if it’s a well-built guy who’s got an excessive amount of cleavage and bare legs. tongue wink (That’s why I love this item.)

Knight22179 - 08 October 2012 11:02 AM

I like heroes who have a good moral ground and I usually hate arrogant show offs like DC’s Guy Gardner or arrogant pricks like Monet St. Croix.

Mostly agree again. The moral code professed by a hero/ine is quite important to me, too, and I definitely dislike heroes/heroines with an ‘atitude’ as well.

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When we see people being shot, roasted, crushed, beheaded etc on the big screen, we consider it standard entertainment fare. But when we see child porn on the big screen, we immediately call the authorities.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Valandar - 08 October 2012 11:05 AM

A little angst is okay, but if the entire story is “My dog died, my girlfriend left me, and I can never turn off my powers”, that’s not a superhero, that’s a Country Music song..

Here’s a whiny, super-angsty superhero country song for you, Valandar! Enjoy! LOL

Valandar - 08 October 2012 11:05 AM

4 just might be too many. Definitely flight… superhuman reflexes… regeneration… and maybe if I had to have a fourth, Super Strength?

I think four might be too few for some!

Valandar - 08 October 2012 11:05 AM

Also, are we assuming they include all the ‘required secondary powers’? For example, let’s take super speed. Okay, I can now run at 500 mph. Can my leg bones avoid shattering at the pace? Do I have the ability to maneuver and react normally at that speed? If it’s closer to 5000 mph, am I resistant to the friction engendered? Do I cause sonic booms or can I suppress that? Would my passage leave massive destruction in my wake from athmospheric effects?

I think we’ll assume that there are automatically secondary powers which prevent/nullify all the undesirable effects. wink

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When we see people being shot, roasted, crushed, beheaded etc on the big screen, we consider it standard entertainment fare. But when we see child porn on the big screen, we immediately call the authorities.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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A comic strip I drew long, long ago. cheese

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When we see people being shot, roasted, crushed, beheaded etc on the big screen, we consider it standard entertainment fare. But when we see child porn on the big screen, we immediately call the authorities.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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K T Ong - 08 October 2012 10:25 AM

Considering that there’s a long thread here on rendering superheroes, I thought I might start another one in which we just talk about them for the fun of it. Let’s just discuss the following:

1.  Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines appeal the most to you, and why?

2.  Which (or what sort of) superheroes/superheroines turn you off, and why?

3.  What sort of things do you look for in a superhero/ine? Is appearance everything to you, or how ‘badass’ s/he is (as in how good s/he is against his/her foes), or the kind of person s/he is (morally impeccable like Superman, or bad-tempered like the Hulk, or arrogant like Namor etc), or the concept of the superhero/ine (whether s/he’s a mutant, magic-based, uses all sorts of futuristic gadgets, is a god/dess etc), or a bit of all these?

4.  If YOU could have FOUR superpowers, what would they be?

5.  Have you ever dreamt of superheroes/superheroines in your sleep?

Please don’t feel that you have to answer all the questions above (and feel free to bring in your own discussion topics as long as they’re about those guys and gals in comic books running/swimming/flying around in spandex smile ). I have my own answers, but for now how about sharing yours first?

1. I guess I prefer characters who have actual superpowers (Superman, Thor) to costumed athletes (Batman, Hawkeye). I don’t mind characters who power(s) is/are basically one major gadget (Iron Man, Green Lantern), though. I guess I lean toward the more fantastic side of things; any healthy person could, with training, be like Batman, but no mortal is ever going to do the stuff that Superman can do.

2. Turn-offs? I don’t have a problem with skimpy clothes, but I think if you’re going to have half-clad women, you should do the same with the men, too. Characters of either gender should be more than window dressing; there should be a reason for the character’s being. I don’t care for gratuitous violence. I expect things to get messy in a world where superpowered beings are battling in the streets, but there should be a rationale for it. I also don’t like unrealistic proportions (unless they’re intrinsic to the character, like the Hulk). I remember one comic company whose female characters ALL had breasts twice the size of my head, waists as thick as my wrists, and legs that looked like they were longer than I am tall. Hideous! I remember seeing Superman, a while back, being done with extremely exaggerated musculature. I didn’t care for that either. I suppose stylistically, I like comic art like the stuff I’ve seen by people like Neal Adams and George Perez.

3. Appearance isn’t everything, but comics are a visual medium, so it does have an impact. If you’re looking at a rack filled with comics, looking for something new, some covers are just going to jump out at you more than others. I like the good guys to have a decent sense of morals. Kind of like Gene Roddenberry’s reason for the Federation not adopting cloaking technology in the original series; his heroes didn’t sneak around. In my own writings, the good guys don’t cheat on their partners, for example. I think without some sort of morals, there’s really no difference between the heroes and villains. That’s not to say that you can’t have an honorable villain, but there’s got to be some reason why some folks, upon gaining superpowers, take up a life of crime, and others fight it.

4. I suppose some sort of shape-changing would be my first pick, if I could have the traits of whatever or whoever I copied, including their powers. For the other three, in no particular order; teleportation, cybernetic telepathy (it would be great to control my computer with just a thought), and the ablility to communicate with anyone, whether or not I actually knew their language.

5. Yes, I’ve dreamt of superheroes, but it was so long ago that I can’t remember what it was about.

 

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Posted: 08 October 2012 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Crud, I totally forgot Shapeshifting! Changing my answer! Instead of Force Fields as one of my options, I’d take Shapeshifting. :D

Oh, and another thing that turns me off about costumes….

Gloves that go midway up the bicep and boots that go midway up the thigh look GREAT on women. But it really it turns me off when seen on Men. For women, looks great, but on men it makes them look womanly and I hate that.

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Genesis is head & shoulders above “Genesis 2” (or better known as BF2/BM2) and is the FAR superior figure. Why? It doesn’t suffer from the UN-necessary gender split

My DeviantArt Page.

ULTIMATE SUPER-HERO FREEBIES!

The Supersuit product comes with a Basic Supersuit. DAZ has finally fixed it’s UV’s. Re-Download now to receive the update. Thanks DAZ! smile

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Posted: 08 October 2012 03:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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1. Likes. Good characters. Well-developed backstories, semi-plausible origin myths
2. Less stereotypes… For instance no native american characters who can shapeshift. done to death.
3. actual super powers.


Dislikes:

1. Rob Liefield art with pouty libs, big breasts, indederminite age, and poorly drawn men.
2. Obvious wangst, parents were killed in a car accident, evil daddy, abusive father/uncle etc. If you must do wangst, do something different.
3. Shallow characters.
4. Teens or Kids. (sorry, I’m older, and I just don’t like to read teen/kid books)
5. Mature plot. By this I do not mean smexy, simply a story that has some thought into it, and is written for adults as well as kids involving real-life drama
5. Actual relationships. What is it really like to find a date as a super/hero.
6.  Get over the dark knight syndrome. Yes, we know the public likes bad boys, but seriously? Stop portraying every good guy character as a square, and every lonerr guy as the only cool character who has a clue.
7. If you have aliens or alien characters, write them with a different cultural background other than being exactly like us but smexy and green.

Thoughts

1. Give your super heroes weaknesses and flaws. Not just obscure ones.
2. Resist the Sueness.
3. If your character does something wrong, there should be consequences, las in, you break the law, you are going to be wanted by the cops.
4. If you must have eyecandy, do so with both genders.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Knight22179 - 08 October 2012 03:33 PM

Crud, I totally forgot Shapeshifting! Changing my answer! Instead of Force Fields as one of my options, I’d take Shapeshifting. :D

Oh, and another thing that turns me off about costumes….

Gloves that go midway up the bicep and boots that go midway up the thigh look GREAT on women. But it really it turns me off when seen on Men. For women, looks great, but on men it makes them look womanly and I hate that.

Uh-oh, one of my male characters has the high boots. Short gloves, though. I don’t think he looks feminine. His uniform is one I can’t do with any of the products I’ve seen so far, so it’ll have to wait until I learn how to make my own clothes.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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SereneNight - 08 October 2012 03:55 PM

1. Likes. Good characters. Well-developed backstories, semi-plausible origin myths
2. Less stereotypes… For instance no native american characters who can shapeshift. done to death.
3. actual super powers.


Dislikes:

1. Rob Liefield art with pouty libs, big breasts, indederminite age, and poorly drawn men.
2. Obvious wangst, parents were killed in a car accident, evil daddy, abusive father/uncle etc. If you must do wangst, do something different.
3. Shallow characters.
4. Teens or Kids. (sorry, I’m older, and I just don’t like to read teen/kid books)
5. Mature plot. By this I do not mean smexy, simply a story that has some thought into it, and is written for adults as well as kids involving real-life drama
5. Actual relationships. What is it really like to find a date as a super/hero.
6.  Get over the dark knight syndrome. Yes, we know the public likes bad boys, but seriously? Stop portraying every good guy character as a square, and every lonerr guy as the only cool character who has a clue.
7. If you have aliens or alien characters, write them with a different cultural background other than being exactly like us but smexy and green.

Thoughts

1. Give your super heroes weaknesses and flaws. Not just obscure ones.
2. Resist the Sueness.
3. If your character does something wrong, there should be consequences, las in, you break the law, you are going to be wanted by the cops.
4. If you must have eyecandy, do so with both genders.

Liefield was the artist I was thinking of. Some of the worst comic art I’ve ever seen.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I should note that a “Weakness” per se, can often be the biggest crutch for coming up with a superhero. Case in point, Spider-Man. He has no “vulnerabilities”, rather, his power levels are low enough that while he SHOULD just simply plow through an entire gang of mooks without breaking a sweat, careful planning by an intelligent mastermind can (and does) incapacitate him. He is stronger, faster, and tougher than any human can be, yet still has trouble with people more skilled than he is, and tough enough to take what he can dish out, such as the Kingpin.

On the other hand, Superman’s weaknesses drifted into place, and the most ridiculous of these is Kryptonite. The only reason it exists is the actor from the radio play had a cold one week, so they made up Kryptonite to explain why Superman didn’t sound so heroic that week. Of course, it’s now so inextricably tied into the mythos that you couldn’t get rid of it if you wanted, but as the archetype for the Super superhero, it’s something we come to expect from him. On the other hand, Silver Age Green Lantern’s “vulnerability to yellow” is patently ridiculous.

Don’t try to deliberately give a hero a specific ‘weakness’ - rather, do something to show us your hero is not unbeatable, that there is a reason why him or her acting like a hero is a matter of courage and moral fortitude, not just “The bad guys can’t hurt me, so why not?”

A VERY good example of this is “Invincible”, by Robert Kirkman & Cory Walker. He has the standard “Super Strength, Flight, Super Speed, enhanced senses, etcetera, but no “magic rock” weakness. However, as powerful as he is, which is significantly more powerful than most of his world’s heroes, he is NOT utterly unstoppable - he ends up on the recieving end of curb-stomp battles as often as not. In this case, his “weakness” is not some external force, but simply that he IS weak compared to some of the baddies, and he pays for it in blood and sweat.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 05:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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riftwitch - 08 October 2012 04:50 PM
Knight22179 - 08 October 2012 03:33 PM

Crud, I totally forgot Shapeshifting! Changing my answer! Instead of Force Fields as one of my options, I’d take Shapeshifting. :D

Oh, and another thing that turns me off about costumes….

Gloves that go midway up the bicep and boots that go midway up the thigh look GREAT on women. But it really it turns me off when seen on Men. For women, looks great, but on men it makes them look womanly and I hate that.

Uh-oh, one of my male characters has the high boots. Short gloves, though. I don’t think he looks feminine. His uniform is one I can’t do with any of the products I’ve seen so far, so it’ll have to wait until I learn how to make my own clothes.

Perhaps you can texture it. smile

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Genesis is head & shoulders above “Genesis 2” (or better known as BF2/BM2) and is the FAR superior figure. Why? It doesn’t suffer from the UN-necessary gender split

My DeviantArt Page.

ULTIMATE SUPER-HERO FREEBIES!

The Supersuit product comes with a Basic Supersuit. DAZ has finally fixed it’s UV’s. Re-Download now to receive the update. Thanks DAZ! smile

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Posted: 08 October 2012 05:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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riftwitch - 08 October 2012 04:50 PM
Knight22179 - 08 October 2012 03:33 PM

Crud, I totally forgot Shapeshifting! Changing my answer! Instead of Force Fields as one of my options, I’d take Shapeshifting. :D

Oh, and another thing that turns me off about costumes….

Gloves that go midway up the bicep and boots that go midway up the thigh look GREAT on women. But it really it turns me off when seen on Men. For women, looks great, but on men it makes them look womanly and I hate that.

Uh-oh, one of my male characters has the high boots. Short gloves, though. I don’t think he looks feminine. His uniform is one I can’t do with any of the products I’ve seen so far, so it’ll have to wait until I learn how to make my own clothes.

I don’t mind the look, personally. =-) It can look good with the right costume.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 06:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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riftwitch - 08 October 2012 04:51 PM
SereneNight - 08 October 2012 03:55 PM

1. Likes. Good characters. Well-developed backstories, semi-plausible origin myths
2. Less stereotypes… For instance no native american characters who can shapeshift. done to death.
3. actual super powers.


Dislikes:

1. Rob Liefield art with pouty libs, big breasts, indederminite age, and poorly drawn men.
2. Obvious wangst, parents were killed in a car accident, evil daddy, abusive father/uncle etc. If you must do wangst, do something different.
3. Shallow characters.
4. Teens or Kids. (sorry, I’m older, and I just don’t like to read teen/kid books)
5. Mature plot. By this I do not mean smexy, simply a story that has some thought into it, and is written for adults as well as kids involving real-life drama
5. Actual relationships. What is it really like to find a date as a super/hero.
6.  Get over the dark knight syndrome. Yes, we know the public likes bad boys, but seriously? Stop portraying every good guy character as a square, and every lonerr guy as the only cool character who has a clue.
7. If you have aliens or alien characters, write them with a different cultural background other than being exactly like us but smexy and green.

Thoughts

1. Give your super heroes weaknesses and flaws. Not just obscure ones.
2. Resist the Sueness.
3. If your character does something wrong, there should be consequences, las in, you break the law, you are going to be wanted by the cops.
4. If you must have eyecandy, do so with both genders.

Liefield was the artist I was thinking of. Some of the worst comic art I’ve ever seen.

Liefeld and his imitators ruined comics for me. :sad: . I was a major comic fan, before.. .But stopped collecting after this style began to dominate the comics scene. I just prefer more detail and less exaggeration .

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Posted: 08 October 2012 06:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Great thread, K T Ong.

Knight22179:

I thought I was the only one who hated the bikini babe heroine in high heels.  No woman hero, or “super” hero should ever be hero-ing in high heels, let alone what breaks down as a bathing suit.  Also, I hate the high gloves/boots on men as well.

I also hate “briefs” on male heros.  Yes, I know they are the mass flavor, because those who were first (in the United States) to draw the comics did so based on whatever rationale they developed (copied from wrestling, or what have you).  They were, or course, just drawing them to entertain a bunch of eight year olds who didn’t know any better, or had the capacity to really appreciate art.  Nowadays, though, not so much.  It is a whole different ballgame, and I appreciate those who put more realism into the equation, even for the fantastical.


I’m a Batman fan through-n-through.  He is the ultimate (American) Ninja, and an example of how life long study and practice can yield a formidable adversary.  The money helps one-hundred fold.


The four powers that I would love to have would be:

1.  Invisibility (that extends to inanimate objects on my person)
2.  Super-speed
3.  Super-strength
4.  Super-mimic (anything I witness I can replicate with precision)

But, I really wouldn’t be a hero, or superhero.  I would be a private contractor for hire.  Though, I would limit myself to the U.S. Gov. as long as they keep themselves in line.

Bin Laden issue;  Taken care of Sept 12, 2001…  Gang members in your city;  Taken care of…  The Mob muscling your business;  Taken care of…  Etc., etc., etc….

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