Digital Art Zone

My Bryce crashes every time I use material lab…Is it compatible with OS x Lion or not? Is there a way out I can use it?

Open letter response:

Chohole, is there something that can be done about this question coming around over and over again every month?

Stickies will NOT solve the problem. There are now 9 screen-filling stickies that no-one reads for this specific forum. This thread, the Brycetalk thread, is not helping people who don’t read the tech. specs page comment “OS X 10.4 or above (Not currently compatible with OS X 10.7 Lion)”.

DAZ has to acknowledge this. It’s not the fault of the users for downloading something their computers can’t run. DAZ’s entire marketing is built around getting people to download the software FIRST, before you know anything about what it will or won’t run on.

Over the decades, users have been conditioned to understand that ‘current versions run on the latest software’. It’s completely inappropriate to have DAZ get users to download products that DO NOT RUN and expect customers to look favorably on their business.

I suggest you approach DAZ and insist that they provide up-front notification on both download sites and front-facing documentation that Bryce 7 will not run on Mac OS 10.7 or later, nor Windows 2003 Server Ed. A running banner on the Brycetalk forum about Bryce’s incompatibility problems would also serve well the new users recently sucked in to downloading a product they can’t use.

Work-arounds are NOT a solution. They’re work-arounds.

I also suggest you find a way to kick DAZ’s ass about their space hogging stickies. Thread-relevant topics go up top. Ads go vertically in a right column. It’s been done for years. Surely DAZ can be brought kicking and screaming into the new decade very simply, if 3 years late??? I mean, it’s pretty obvious that Bryce is being stone-walled due to archaic code. But at least they could throw some attention to fixing something most businesses can handle: formatting a web forum.

I support Oroboros on this.

OK, I will float your suggestion past the PTB.  At least regarding the OSX Lion issue anyway.  Announcements are not our prerogative, they are mostly done by DAZ_People.

Understood about the announcements, Chohole. My issue isn’t their presence: It’s their position.

The placement is part of the forum software setup, so I doubt it can be altered. And as they are all important announcements then the top of the page does seem to be the logical place to put them. When they are no longer topical they do get culled.

It can be altered. I’ve worked with these sorts of forums before. It’s a matter of getting off their arses, finding the correct PHP template that drives the thread generation and creating a two-column table.

PHP generates HTML output. The PHP calls don’t have to be touched at all. It’s all HTML/CSS. Rudimentary stuff.

Oroboros - 06 October 2012 06:52 PM

It can be altered. I’ve worked with these sorts of forums before. It’s a matter of getting off their arses, finding the correct PHP template that drives the thread generation and creating a two-column table.

PHP generates HTML output. The PHP calls don’t have to be touched at all. It’s all HTML/CSS. Rudimentary stuff.

Now think about what you’re asking to be done very carefully. I know it’s not unreasonable to expect the kinds of changes you’re suggesting to be a piece of cake for people running commercial forums and web sites but do you really want to get them mucking around with the forum? I mean here we are months after the new site software and they’re still having ongoing problems with things they shouldn’t be having poblems with.

I mean even now I’m still having to hit preview first in order to get the post to actually post. If I don’t the post just disappears.

That problem I sorted out by closing the browser and clearing cache

chohole - 08 October 2012 04:25 AM

That problem I sorted out by closing the browser and clearing cache

Well I’m not interested in having to clear my cache everytime something gets messed up in the forums, I shouldn’t have to and have not had this happen with other sites/forums I visit only Daz. Besides it’s intermittent so I’m not convinced clearing the cache would fix the problem for good? Also while it’s an irritation it hasn’t caused me to lose anything, I just hit the back button and there my message is all ready to be previewed and then posted. The point is that those kinds of errors shouldn’t be happening with a professionally run site/forum so since Daz can’t seem to avoid those sorts of problems and/or fix them in a timely fashion then it’s probably not a good idea to try to get them to play around with how stickies are handled.

Nor am I convinced that the reason people don’t notice the sticky about the side by side error or about how Bryce isn’t compatible with OSX Lion and above is because of the forum format. I think it is because alot of the folks that come in to complain about it aren’t familiar with forums and therefore the concept of stickies and I think most of them are under the false impression this is a relatively new problem and only they or perhaps a few others as well have had these issues. Also especially in the case of the compatability issue time and time again the people complaining about that miss the compatability note on the product page so I doubt they’ll catch the stickies no matter how they’re arranged. Besides if we make them any more prominent it might serve as a negative ad for Bryce.

Well crap when it rains it pours, we just got done dealing with a death in the family the past two weeks and just now my wife fell in another room and broke her hip and had to be rushed to the hospital via ambulance. So naturally I’m on my way there now as well.

LordHardDriven - 08 October 2012 11:46 AM

chohole - 08 October 2012 04:25 AM

That problem I sorted out by closing the browser and clearing cache

Well I’m not interested in having to clear my cache everytime something gets messed up in the forums, I shouldn’t have to and have not had this happen with other sites/forums I visit only Daz. Besides it’s intermittent so I’m not convinced clearing the cache would fix the problem for good?

That’s… not exactly a caching problem. That’s a security problem. What’s happening is that when you apply to create a post, a tracking number is allocated to your post. If you take longer than, say, 15, 30 mins composing a reply, the system retires the number, as it assumes the connection has dropped. Previewing forces the system to re-allocate a new number, possibly the same one if no-one else has posted.

Basically, DAZ is telling yout to type faster It’s not an error.

The point is that those kinds of errors shouldn’t be happening with a professionally run site/forum so since Daz can’t seem to avoid those sorts of problems and/or fix them in a timely fashion then it’s probably not a good idea to try to get them to play around with how stickies are handled.

Wow. You’re implying you don’t trust the company developing several sophisticated 3D apps to handle a $30/hour HTML formatting task. I know I can get pretty insulting at times, but… Wow.

Nor am I convinced that the reason people don’t notice the sticky about the side by side error or about how Bryce isn’t compatible with OSX Lion and above is because of the forum format. I think it is because alot of the folks that come in to complain about it aren’t familiar with forums and therefore the concept of stickies and I think most of them are under the false impression this is a relatively new problem and only they or perhaps a few others as well have had these issues.

True.

So… You’re saying that instead of helping these people who just want immediate answers to their problems, we should be striving to teach them how to use the site properly, or show them the Search facility? (I wouldn’t show them the Search facility. Ever.)

I think differently. Address the 3 most common complaints at the top of the forum in a small yet eye-catching banner (not a flashing one!), that directs them to a FAQ. The rest of the forum page is 2-column: main forum questions on the left, stickies on the right.

Also especially in the case of the compatibility issue time and time again the people complaining about that miss the compatibility note on the product page so I doubt they’ll catch the stickies no matter how they’re arranged. Besides if we make them any more prominent it might serve as a negative ad for Bryce.

They miss the note on the product page because it’s not on the product page. It’s on the Specs page. The product page contains what’s likely to be the 2 biggest “download now” buttons on the internet. Even when you go to the Specs page, The Mac OS Lion bug is not listed in red, like the other fatal warning are. It’s buried in the lists.

This indicates to ME, that the key information is not obvious. So how about DAZ makes it obvious? If they don’t want to ruin their pretty product page they can stick a banner in the forum generating template….

Well crap when it rains it pours, we just got done dealing with a death in the family the past two weeks and just now my wife fell in another room and broke her hip and had to be rushed to the hospital via ambulance. So naturally I’m on my way there now as well.

All the best, LHD.

The really frustrating thing about trying to use Bryce with Mountain Lion is that it so nearly works.

I had to buy a new Mac which came with Mountain Lion installed and I transferred my copy of Bryce 7 from my backup. When I originally downloaded Bryce, Mountain Lion didn’t exist and I had no idea that there might be a problem.

I can open old files and change the angle of view, zoom etc and render the scene on screen provided I only use the on screen tools.

As soon as I open a dialogue box, however, Bryce just quits.

I have a large number of archaeological reconstructions that were done for magazine articles which I now can’t work with which is really annoying. I also can’t transfer then to any other programme so all the work I did is useless.

Oroboros - 08 October 2012 03:11 PM

That’s… not exactly a caching problem. That’s a security problem. What’s happening is that when you apply to create a post, a tracking number is allocated to your post. If you take longer than, say, 15, 30 mins composing a reply, the system retires the number, as it assumes the connection has dropped. Previewing forces the system to re-allocate a new number, possibly the same one if no-one else has posted.

Basically, DAZ is telling yout to type faster It’s not an error.

I don’t think so because it even happens on posts that consist of one line and took me less then a minute to type.

Oroboros - 08 October 2012 03:11 PM

Wow. You’re implying you don’t trust the company developing several sophisticated 3D apps to handle a $30/hour HTML formatting task. I know I can get pretty insulting at times, but… Wow.

I’m not implying anything I’m pointing to their history, two failed site renovations in recent history one which was supposedly in beta testing for a year prior to going live. It is possible to be good in some things and not good in others and clearly for daz website/forum creation/management falls into the catagory of things they’re not so good at. Also it’s kind of a stretch to say Daz is developing several sophisticated 3D apps. Everything except Studio they inherited and Studio has been so flakey in it’s developement and what it can and can’t do I’m not inclined to think of it as a sophisticated 3D app.

Nor am I convinced that the reason people don’t notice the sticky about the side by side error or about how Bryce isn’t compatible with OSX Lion and above is because of the forum format. I think it is because alot of the folks that come in to complain about it aren’t familiar with forums and therefore the concept of stickies and I think most of them are under the false impression this is a relatively new problem and only they or perhaps a few others as well have had these issues.

Oroboros - 08 October 2012 03:11 PM

So… You’re saying that instead of helping these people who just want immediate answers to their problems, we should be striving to teach them how to use the site properly, or show them the Search facility? (I wouldn’t show them the Search facility. Ever.)

I think differently. Address the 3 most common complaints at the top of the forum in a small yet eye-catching banner (not a flashing one!), that directs them to a FAQ. The rest of the forum page is 2-column: main forum questions on the left, stickies on the right.

No I’m saying these people aren’t showing the signs of being observent or showing due dilligence in researching the app they bought or more recently downloaded for free. Maybe now the warning is not on the product page but back when they were selling it, it was. I know because on more then one occasion I went to the product page and copied the warning to paste it in the forum answering this question of Bryce not working on OSX Lion, before. So what I’m saying is why go to the trouble of changing the site to better serve people that are just as likely to miss the changes as they did the stickies or the intial incompatability warning on the product page.

Oroboros - 08 October 2012 03:11 PM

They miss the note on the product page because it’s not on the product page. It’s on the Specs page. The product page contains what’s likely to be the 2 biggest “download now” buttons on the internet. Even when you go to the Specs page, The Mac OS Lion bug is not listed in red, like the other fatal warning are. It’s buried in the lists.

This indicates to ME, that the key information is not obvious. So how about DAZ makes it obvious? If they don’t want to ruin their pretty product page they can stick a banner in the forum generating template….

Maybe now it’s that way since they’re giving it away for free but back when they were taking money for it the warning was right there where everyone could see it. There was no seperate specs page, that’s only been since the new site came into being and from that point till now Bryce has been free. So it’s not like Daz is taking money for something that doesn’t work as has been suggested before.

Oroboros - 08 October 2012 03:11 PM

All the best, LHD.

Thanks, it’s looking to be a long, slow, painful, recovery for the wife and likely from the hospital she’ll be going into a rehab for a month or so.

Its simple I liked this program, have a few people working under me but if it doesn’t work at home then its no good to me.  I have a ten month old and don’t want to have to go to the office to check animation work.  I was really looking forward to being a long time member of this program even about to join their members program.  But now its just depressing.  A free product doesn’t mean anything to me I would have brought the product if it worked.  I don’t even want to buy anything else thinking i may miss something and it not work either.

mandelelmore - 28 October 2012 09:37 AM

Its simple I liked this program, have a few people working under me but if it doesn’t work at home then its no good to me.  I have a ten month old and don’t want to have to go to the office to check animation work.  I was really looking forward to being a long time member of this program even about to join their members program.  But now its just depressing.  A free product doesn’t mean anything to me I would have brought the product if it worked.  I don’t even want to buy anything else thinking i may miss something and it not work either.

Well I know I’ll get a fair amount of disagreement with this statement but personally I don’t see anything from Daz as really being well suited for professional use. Now that’s not to say it can’t be used professionally and there are those who have done stunning professional quality work using Daz products. They however were using Windows and so didn’t have the problem you’re having. The reason for my comment though is that professional use really demands flexibility for reasons like the one you gave. The programs most professionals use though that don’t have these kinds of problems are unfortunately cost prohibitive, if they weren’t Daz might not have ever been able to find a market beyond content.

As to your problem, I’m not entirely certain what you mean when you say “check animation work”. If it doesn’t require you to actually edit things then I don’t see why your workers can’t send you the animation to view on any one of the commonly popular programs for viewing animations. For that matter they should just be able to post it on you tube and you can check it that way and then call back to the office with your thoughts if any on corrections needed?

This is a shame. It should be an easy fix. The dialog box is failing in com.apple.QD which is a compatibility framework for older programs that used QuickDraw for their UI. The failure is taking place because when Bryce brings up a dialog, it is saving the area of the screen behind the dialog for when it is dismissed. There’s some problem with the limits used during the restore of the data behind the dialog…it’s overwriting it’s bounds and over-writing sections of memory that are generating segmentation fault exceptions.