Digital Art Zone

Never say never hon!  lol

RAMWolff - 10 October 2012 07:25 PM

Never say never hon!  lol

Well, okay, not NEVER.  I’m just saying, it’s usually a safe bet that doing it the hard way gives better results than doing it by one-clicky scripty things even when those scripty things are very fancy.  Although Dimension3d seems to be an important exception.  I’m still hoping he’ll come up with a Ds4/Genesis version of his clothing mirror script.  That thing was awesome and it worked perfectly every time.

SickleYield - 10 October 2012 07:40 PM

RAMWolff - 10 October 2012 07:25 PM

Never say never hon!  lol

Well, okay, not NEVER.  I’m just saying, it’s usually a safe bet that doing it the hard way gives better results than doing it by one-clicky scripty things even when those scripty things are very fancy.  Although Dimension3d seems to be an important exception.  I’m still hoping he’ll come up with a Ds4/Genesis version of his clothing mirror script.  That thing was awesome and it worked perfectly every time.

Now if D3D got involved it would be solved in a nano second.  I mean the minute that Genesis hit his first transfer product was on the market in like a week and shortly after that DAZ invited him here.  He’s got one of those minds I guess.

nicci - 10 October 2012 06:32 PM

Awww…. , Thank you…. I’m glad you found it useful.  I’m in the process of up-dating / re-writing it for 4.5 and to make the process even easier. And I intend to include weight-mapping and making JCM and FBM morphs. Maybe even a section just for converting Gen 3 and 4 shoes if someone doesn’t find a easier solution.

Anyways…. back to the discussion

nicci…

I’m working with your more than excellent tutorial too!!!
I try with v3 heels. I still have problems with toes, and regardless I obtain a good fit with genesis, some shapes, like toon shapes, destroy the shoe tip. My first solution was to increase smoothing iteration, but this also destroy the shoe. Now, I’m testing with push modifier, collision iterations to zero or one, combined with smooth iteration, with some good results, but I even need to hide toes.
If you include weight-mapping and morphs it is a great great great aid to me (us).

The zev0’s bodysuit idea also can be useful for genesis shoes in extreme shapes. I recommend to experiment with push modifier or something like this.

Hi gilikshe…

gilikshe - 10 October 2012 11:11 PM

I’m working with your more than excellent tutorial too!!!
I try with v3 heels. I still have problems with toes, and regardless I obtain a good fit with genesis, some shapes, like toon shapes, destroy the shoe tip. My first solution was to increase smoothing iteration, but this also destroy the shoe. Now, I’m testing with push modifier, collision iterations to zero or one, combined with smooth iteration, with some good results, but I even need to hide toes.
If you include weight-mapping and morphs it is a great great great aid to me (us).

The zev0’s bodysuit idea also can be useful for genesis shoes in extreme shapes. I recommend to experiment with push modifier or something like this.

Thank you too… 

Another of the problems with the toes is that the original shoe was modeled for a specific figure, ie: V3, V4.  Re-fitting for Genesis will look best on the equivalent Genesis shape, but any shape that has a similar foot shape will also look good. The problem with some shapes (toons) is that the shapes also change the feet and toes. This results in mostly the toe area of the shoes distorting as the shoe tries to fit the foot shape, but also the sides of the foot may start to bulge out of the shoe.

This is where morphs are needed to replace the Auto-Generated morphs that fitting to Genesis creates. Even if a Auto-Fit solution is made for foot-wear, this would still be a problem, just as it is with some other clothing items.

Another issue with some shape morphs can be hidden JCM’s on the feet that have Auto-Follow enabled. These will also cause distortions to the shoes and would need to be turned off.

One fix for the toes poking out the sides of the shoes is to see if you have a ‘Toe Morph’ or ‘Feet for Shoes’ morph on Genesis, or something similar. Also you can use deformers on the toes and use the ‘Side-Side’ for the big toe to move it in.

The ‘Push Modifier’ on the shoes works to a degree, however what it does is inflate the entire shoe, including the heel. Now this generally looks okay on the toon figures as it sort of fits the style, but doesn’t look all that good on a realistic figure.

I’m trying to be very thorough on the new tutorial, using allot of pictures and explaining the steps in an easy to understand way, and in the easiest way possible. So it’s taking quite some time to do. The tutorial I did before I put together in one night without sleeping, and I even left out the last step. Thankfully, someone pointed out that something seemed to be missing, and I quickly put up the revised version. I don’t want to make that mistake again… The unfortunate part is that I don’t have allot of time available to work on it, so it’s been taking awhile to do.

nicci…

SickleYield - 10 October 2012 07:13 PM

The problem with shoe conversion is that V4’s toes are pointed when zeroed and Genesis’ are flat.  No automation is probably going to get around this, unfortunately.

Is the problem simply the pose Genesis is in, or is the the actual position of the zero? If the former case, you could simply pose Genesis in the V4 zero pose. This is the principle PoseMaster uses for transferring poses between figures - it has “zero pose offsets” that it applies between figures. If this is the case, I might be able to do something using the PoseMaster offsets.

In the latter case, can’t you reset the “zero” position using the property editor? I know you can reset max and min using the editor, so why not the zero?

cridgit - 11 October 2012 05:38 AM

SickleYield - 10 October 2012 07:13 PM

The problem with shoe conversion is that V4’s toes are pointed when zeroed and Genesis’ are flat.  No automation is probably going to get around this, unfortunately.

Is the problem simply the pose Genesis is in, or is the the actual position of the zero? If the former case, you could simply pose Genesis in the V4 zero pose. This is the principle PoseMaster uses for transferring poses between figures - it has “zero pose offsets” that it applies between figures. If this is the case, I might be able to do something using the PoseMaster offsets.

In the latter case, can’t you reset the “zero” position using the property editor? I know you can reset max and min using the editor, so why not the zero?

Now I haven’t experimented to test that.  It’s a question worth asking.  I’m not sure if Transfer Utility or Autofit won’t just zero things itself before acting on them.

Shoes for V4 have to be ABLE to be posed flat-footed because V4 has to be able to do that.  I think part of the problem may be that people are trying this with high heels that are never meant to be flat even on V4, and that may complicate things further. 

I’m not sure how that would explain the inevitable toe distortion on flatter boots and sneakers, though.  That is puzzling.

Now, the shoes that I want to fit to Genesis are V4 heels, but the heels have morphs to make them higher or lower, so when I load them on a standard V4 in the zero position, they come in looking like a heel on a flat-footed pose. Very silly, so I have to re-pose the feet, and the toes, for them to work. I haven’t yet tried fitting them to Genesis to see how bad the situation is, but even at the lowest heel setting (which is quite moderate), I have to re-pose the feet on V4.

I tried niccipb’s conversion with free nancy boot for V3. First image is the v3 boot, second is the direct autofit to genesis, third and fourth are the conversion boot+ smooth+push autofited to genesis with extreme toon foot, amy and chibi girl. Only big big toe of chibi boy was a problem for this conversion.

Curiously, this boot have only one face group defined for right side: “rfoot” , no rtoes, no rleg face group as you can see in the fifth image. I had totally successful and fast conversion with two heeled boot, in both cases only rfoot face group is defined. In another case, conversion had several problems, and it wasn’t satisfactory.

That’s weird that that happened, but it looks like you did get a nice-looking result out of it.

I will try with another shoes, with single and multiple face group to see if this is a consistent statement, or only a casual event.

Hi gilikshe…

Those boots turned out very nice…

That is indeed very odd that there is only a single face group. The Figure Setup pane should read all of the face groups that are defined in the original .obj and should not affect them in the created figure.

If you used the Transfer Utility to transfer the weight maps, this to should not affect the face groups.

There were bugs in 4.5 with the Figure Setup tools that could cause a crash when adding geometry to the skeleton and some in the Transfer Utility that had to do with projection, but I don’t know if that has anything to do with this though as I haven’t had that or what you encountered happen.

Let us (me) know how your other conversions go…

nicci…

Huh. Sometimes, the antcipation is worse than the problem.

So, here are some V4 boots run through autofit to V4 Genesis. No, they aren’t perfect. The soles are slightly crumpled. The soles of the heels are slightly crumpled. But other than that, the fit is as good or better than a direct load onto V4.

I can work with this, At worst, most of the problem would be easy enough to shoot around by a bit of care in posing, and the rest would probably be fixable in post.

Will be interesting to see whether some of the other shoes from this artist are as well behaved.

Not bad at all.  Especially since they’re an adorable boot.

niccipb - 12 October 2012 01:36 AM

Hi gilikshe…

Those boots turned out very nice…

That is indeed very odd that there is only a single face group. The Figure Setup pane should read all of the face groups that are defined in the original .obj and should not affect them in the created figure.

If you used the Transfer Utility to transfer the weight maps, this to should not affect the face groups.

There were bugs in 4.5 with the Figure Setup tools that could cause a crash when adding geometry to the skeleton and some in the Transfer Utility that had to do with projection, but I don’t know if that has anything to do with this though as I haven’t had that or what you encountered happen.

Let us (me) know how your other conversions go…

nicci…

I haven’t others “single face group” shoes for now, then I only work with a “multiple face groups” shoes. In general, conversion was successful, so, my previous guess is not true, then face groups doesn’t influence conversion performance.

These are Leopard shoes (http://www.daz3d.com/shop/leopard-shoes/) for V4. First and second are autofit. Third is corvesion fit to genesis. Fourth and fifth are genesis shapes, chibi girl and V3 respectively, they need 20 smoothing iteration and 5 collisions to repair destructive big toe effect.