Problems with the lights in 4.5

Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

I'm getting a lot 3D Delight errors when I use a Deep Shadow Map on a Distant Light (See screen shot). Does anyone know what is causing this and how to fix it? It's also messing up the render in different ways as well. If the answer is posted somewhere, please feel free to post a link.

Thanks.

error.jpg
354 x 350 - 82K

Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,723
    edited December 1969

    Basically it's not an error...but rather a warning and can be safely ignored.

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited December 1969

    I could be wrong but it looks like you have an improper texture map 'brickyard' in that it doesn't work as a displacement map for some reason. I would try finding that surface and disabling the texture in question temporarily to see if the error goes away. If it does, it would at least let you know where the problem is so you could figure out what you wanted to do to fix it.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,781
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Basically it's not an error...but rather a warning and can be safely ignored.

    I concur. Use Ray Trace shadows should get rid of it. :) But h=yeah nothing to worry about.

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the replies. Yep, there is no problem when I switch from deep shadow to ray traced or if I use Uber. The texture is actually one that came with V5, Bree. I'll fiddle with the displacement map and see what happens.

    Thanks all
    :-)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,781
    edited September 2012

    Arr there we have it Bree is either Human Surface Shader or UberSurface and therefore requires Raytarcing to be the most effective that is where the message is coming from.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,473
    edited September 2012

    And that is why we can ignore warning messages but don't necessarily want to, or at least might want to know what they are warning us about.

    Thanks Szark :)

    Post edited by Gedd on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,781
    edited December 1969

    My pleasure.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 3,833
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Arr there we have it Bree is either Human Surface Shader or UberSurface and therefore requires Raytarcing to be the most effective that is where the message is coming from.

    I don't really agree with this Deep shadow maps have there place and can often be as effective as raytracing, I find the bug in DS with Deep shadow maps to be just that a bug, deep shadow maps should not produce error messages and the artifacts that they do. The work arounds are just that - a way of compensating for mistakes in the software.
    If you have a high end machine raytracing is fine, if working on a lower end machine deep shadow maps are often more preferable.

    So in my opinion don't just ignore the error messages put in a bug report.

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited September 2012

    I have to agree with Scorpio64Dragon. There have been problems with the deep shadow maps for as long as I can remember, especially the artifacts. With DS 4.5, something else has changed (broken) with the shadow maps. The actual texture itself shouldn't matter to a distant light with deep shadow map. Those designed for SSS would simply "look" better when you ray trace or Uber lights.

    See pics below. This is the Bree texture. Ray trace does fine but I don't understand why I get that error and why it renders the way it does when I switch to deep shadow map. It shouldn't matter one way or another. Right?? Or not??

    ray_traced.jpg
    429 x 600 - 89K
    deep_shadow.jpg
    429 x 600 - 96K
    Post edited by Muon Quark on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,544
    edited September 2012

    WOW.. it's rendering the skin gold like that? Notice the one extended arm, the fingers are normal shaded tint and yet the arm supporting the dragon the hand is even more intensely shaded, like an orange color. ODD!

    Very cute character!

    Post edited by RAMWolff on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,781
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Arr there we have it Bree is either Human Surface Shader or UberSurface and therefore requires Raytarcing to be the most effective that is where the message is coming from.

    I don't really agree with this Deep shadow maps have there place and can often be as effective as raytracing, I find the bug in DS with Deep shadow maps to be just that a bug, deep shadow maps should not produce error messages and the artifacts that they do. The work arounds are just that - a way of compensating for mistakes in the software.
    If you have a high end machine raytracing is fine, if working on a lower end machine deep shadow maps are often more preferable.

    So in my opinion don't just ignore the error messages put in a bug report.

    What I am saying is that HSS or Uber Surface 1 and 2 will give better results when raytracing is used. I didn't say you couldn't use deep map shadows as the error message doesn't interfer with the rendering process and does give resonable results. I never said I agree with it either. :) The error messgae btw has been around since DS3 which makes you wonder why we are still seeing it.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,723
    edited December 1969

    IT ISN'T AN ERROR!!!!

    It's an informational message spit out by 3Delight saying that particular item/texture is using 0% of it's allocated displacement...in other words, it's NOT being displaced, probably because Displacement is 'on' but no displacement map specified.

    Here's the 3Delight info on that specific message...

    R2093 object 'name' (displacement 'shader', surface 'shader') used only usedbound% of its displacement bound
    The displacement bound specified for the object is much larger than needed. Performance could be increased by reducing it.

    Somewhere, I can't find right now, there's a list of what the severity levels mean...

    The problems with deep shadow maps, in general, ARE NOT Studio problems, but long running and OLD 3Delight problems. The work arounds are from the movie studios/effects houses and 3Delight dev team itself. They are probably core problems in the base code/specification...

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,781
    edited December 1969

    thanks for the clarification mjc

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited September 2012

    RAMWolff said:
    WOW.. it's rendering the skin gold like that? Notice the one extended arm, the fingers are normal shaded tint and yet the arm supporting the dragon the hand is even more intensely shaded, like an orange color. ODD!

    Very cute character!

    Yes, and sometimes it's just odd places or the whole body. Sometimes the whole body turns red like her right hand. Well unless anyone has anyone has any ideas about the deep shadow map, guess I'll need to switch to ray tracing or use uber lights.

    Thanks Wolf. That's Mavka for Genesis by Smay.

    Post edited by Muon Quark on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,723
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    WOW.. it's rendering the skin gold like that? Notice the one extended arm, the fingers are normal shaded tint and yet the arm supporting the dragon the hand is even more intensely shaded, like an orange color. ODD!

    Very cute character!

    Yes, and sometimes it's just odd places or the whole body. Sometimes the whole body turns red like her right hand. Well unless anyone has anyone has any ideas about the deep shadow map, guess I'll need to switch to ray tracing or use uber lights.

    Thanks Wolf. That's Mavka for Genesis by Smay.

    There's something else going on between those two renders than what the message is informing you about.

    Just to be sure...the same lights are used for both renders, but the only difference is shadow type?

    The various settings like SSS and ambient are the same...basically, there's no other changes to the surface settings.

    Things like bump/displacement/specularity maps are properly assigned...(like the limbs maps are actually on the limbs and not the torso maps)

    Are you using progressive rendering?

    Any actual rendering errors (severity level higher than 1) showing up in the log?

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:

    There's something else going on between those two renders than what the message is informing you about.

    Just to be sure...the same lights are used for both renders, but the only difference is shadow type?

    The various settings like SSS and ambient are the same...basically, there's no other changes to the surface settings.

    Things like bump/displacement/specularity maps are properly assigned...(like the limbs maps are actually on the limbs and not the torso maps)

    Are you using progressive rendering?

    Any actual rendering errors (severity level higher than 1) showing up in the log?

    First, sorry for the extremely long post. Yes, the only thing I did was change the shadow map from deep shadow to ray trace. All the mats appear to be in order and such. Here is a snippet of the log:

    Rendering image
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object '' (displacement 'brickyard/{9aa156a1-7e6e-43d5-b1e2-bfe9684cd603}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{9aa156a1-7e6e-43d5-b1e2-bfe9684cd603}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object '' (displacement 'brickyard/{e2b4b352-4907-4e75-b0fa-6b8104b2bed2}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{e2b4b352-4907-4e75-b0fa-6b8104b2bed2}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object '' (displacement 'brickyard/{9aa156a1-7e6e-43d5-b1e2-bfe9684cd603}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{9aa156a1-7e6e-43d5-b1e2-bfe9684cd603}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    3Delight message #43 (Severity 0): R2093: object '' (displacement 'brickyard/{e2b4b352-4907-4e75-b0fa-6b8104b2bed2}/shader_Displacement', surface 'brickyard/{e2b4b352-4907-4e75-b0fa-6b8104b2bed2}/shader_Surface') used only 0% of its displacement bound
    Saved image: C:\Users\Muon Quark\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\temp\render\r.png
    Finished Rendering
    Total Rendering Time: 41.5 seconds

    I also found quite a few of these in the log as well:

    Loaded image V5BreeTorsoM.jpg
    Loaded image V5BreeTorsoB.jpg
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 2 unknown for QWidget)
    Loaded image V5BreeTorsoM.jpg
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 12 unknown for QWidget)
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 13 unknown for QWidget)
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 14 unknown for QWidget)
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 16 unknown for QWidget)
    Loaded image V5BreeLimbsM.jpg
    Loaded image V5BreeLimbsB.jpg
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 2 unknown for QWidget)
    Loaded image V5BreeLimbsM.jpg
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 11 unknown for QWidget)
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 12 unknown for QWidget)
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 12 unknown for QWidget)
    WARNING: QAccessibleWidget::rect: This implementation does not support subelements! (ID 14 unknown for QWidget)

    And finally, here are my render settings:

    settings.jpg
    305 x 700 - 115K
  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 369
    edited December 1969

    Ok, will start using ray trace or uber lights until this gets fixed or until there is a work around.
    Thanks.

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