Digital Art Zone

 
     
Is M4 and V4 needed if you have V4/M4 Shapes For Genesis
Posted: 27 September 2012 09:22 PM   [ Ignore ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6890
Joined  2012-09-10

Here’s the questions- if we buy the V4/M4 Shapes For Genesis, it sounds like it will convert anything V4 and M4 onto the Genesis V5 and M5
so if we want to buy M4 characters (the ones that will say (Name) for M4) do we need to buy M4? Or just use the Genesis male (M5) with the “V4/M4 Shapes For Genesis”

Help!  We want to buy some of the M4 stuff but dont want to waste money buying M4 if we don’t need him. (or V4)  Thanks!

 Signature 

SILO Step By Step
The Art Studio: Thread #4   Product Discussions
Beginners Videos Thread-

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 September 2012 09:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6890
Joined  2012-09-10

....and just found one for M4 that says I would need the Michael 4 morphs- so would I need that TOO if I had the Shapes For Genesis?

 Signature 

SILO Step By Step
The Art Studio: Thread #4   Product Discussions
Beginners Videos Thread-

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 September 2012 09:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1135
Joined  2004-06-13

If the character is just a texture set it will work on Genesis.  If it is a custom morph or morph preset that needs the Morphs++ it will not work directly on Genesis.  GenX is a plug-in that can transfer V4 and M4 morphs to Genesis.  So you would need GenX and the Morphs++ expansions for V4 and M4 and any other morph expansion set the character may require.

 Signature 

Push buttons, see what happens!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 September 2012 11:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6890
Joined  2012-09-10

“If the character is just a texture set it will work on Genesis.  If it is a custom morph or morph preset that needs the Morphs++ it will not work directly on Genesis.  GenX is a plug-in that can transfer V4 and M4 morphs to Genesis.  So you would need GenX and the Morphs++ expansions for V4 and M4 and any other morph expansion set the character may require.”

Sorry to be naive about the terms you used- I am just starting out (and I do mean JUST) and it seems the 2nd and 3rd sentences contradict each other? Custom morphs/morph presets will not work in Genesis, then you said GenX can transfer V4 and M4 morphs. ARRGH. (It’s ME, not YOU.)  So it sounds like some of these are stuck in M4?

1. How would I know if the character is a “texture set?” or a custom morph, or morph present?
2. Whats the difference in a custom morph and a morph preset?
And is this right? I need to know how to tell if this is a texture set (then no V4 or M4 required, but GenX and Morphs++ are required.)

smile Appreciate the help but I am LOST (as usual.)

Take these guys for example, charming dudes that they are.
3.  If I am just doing the Genesis figure, would I or would I not have to have the Michael 4 Morphs++ for Stefan? (below)

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/stefan-for-m4-and-genesis
Stefan has a list of stuff required, so I assume ALL of these are, correct?
This product requires:  Michael 4 Morphs++  Genesis Evolution: Morph Bundle V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis

4. If I wanted to do Shaw for Genesis, would I need the Morphs++
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/shaw-for-m4
This product requires:  Michael 4 Morphs++

 Signature 

SILO Step By Step
The Art Studio: Thread #4   Product Discussions
Beginners Videos Thread-

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 05:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  13921
Joined  2003-10-09

1. Most characters will include morphs in some form - check the What’s Included & features tab.

2. A custom morph is a brand new shape, sculpted in an application like ZBrush; a preset uses a mix of the supplied DAZ morphs at different settings. GenX will make both usable with Genesis and the M4 shape (though the morphs would work on a bare Genesis - but the result wouldn’t be quite the same as a morph is a change from the starting shape, so different starting shapes give different results.

3. Stefan would need the Michael 4 shape, but not Morphs++, for Genesis. Geenrally, if there’s a Genesis shape it will not require the morphs for a different figure but it may well require the base shape for the other figure, as here - though it will work without, again giving a slightly different shape as a result.

4. Yes, to get the same end result your would need the M4 Morphs++ converted using GenX. But as Jetsmart notes you could just apply the texture to Genesis and create your own shape with the morphs you have.

 Signature 

DAZ Studio Frequently Asked Questions

Index of free DAZ Studio scripts and plugins list

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  60
Joined  2008-03-27

It’s probably easier to understand by first explaining how an M4/V4 character is set up, then explaining how an M4/V4 character can be applied to Genesis.

In general, a character set contains three things:

• A set of textures (skin, makeup…);
• A head morph; and
• A body morph.

Each figure has a mapping that tells DAZ how to apply the textures to the figure. M4/V4 have one mapping, and by default Genesis has a different mapping, however Genesis also comes with a mapping to apply the M4/V4 textures, so they can be used out of the box.

Most head morphs are custom sculpted, so the morph itself describes how to modify the base figure to look like the character. For the custom sculpted morphs, all you would need is GenX and the character pack.

Most body morphs, and some head morphs, are what are called “dial spun”. The morph is created by blending preexisting morphs supplied (usually) by DAZ. The reason for doing this is that, historically, it made it easier for clothes to fit as the clothes modellers only had to support the DAZ supplied morphs.

The usual sources for the morphs used in dial spins include:

• The M4/V4 Base;
• The M4/V4 Morphs++;
• The M4/V4 Muscle Morphs;
• The M4/V4 Elite Body Shapes;
• The M4/V4 Elite Ethnic Faces (for dial spun head morphs);
• Aiko 4/Hiro 4/Girl 4/Stephanie 4/Freak 4.

GenX works by building a morph for Genesis to which the M4 or V4 for Genesis product has been applied. To build the morph, it needs access to all the morphs from which and dial spin has been constructed. If you don’t have the M4/V4 base, and the dial spin uses morphs from the base product, then the resulting morph for Genesis won’t look the same. Similarly, if the character uses the Morphs++, you’ll need to have Morphs++ or the result won’t llok right.


GenX is really for those who have a large investment in the Generation 4 figures, and wish to be able to use our existing libraries with the new Genesis figures, rather than for those just starting out.

That said, if you’re prepared to invest in the basic figure and morph packages (and given the Pt Club anniversary sale is next month, you should be able to pick some of them up quite cheaply if you’re a member), it does then give to access to the entire Generation 4 character set.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6890
Joined  2012-09-10

I appreciate all of you very, very much! Although I’m just starting,  I’ve already enjoyed purchasing a wide variety from Daz and will get immersed next month in using it. I was looking at the “what’s included” and knew about the head/body morphs (thanks for pointing it out though, it will definitely help others reading the thread who hadn’t done that)  but one thing that was mentioned I haven’t been able to pinpoint- What is an “elite” model? How does it differ? Is it the skin textures?

Again, thanks SOOOOOOOOOO much!

 Signature 

SILO Step By Step
The Art Studio: Thread #4   Product Discussions
Beginners Videos Thread-

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1627
Joined  2012-09-16

*is lurking*
I found this very helpful as well, thank you ^^

 Signature 

You’re welcome to visit my GALLERY
Need a review or looking for tips? Pay a visit HERE

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 12:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  13921
Joined  2003-10-09

The elite morphs are made from scans of real people, the Elite textures from very high resolution images of real people with no mirroring, so that you don’t get identical features on both sides of the texture, with each set of photos used for only a single texture and with additional maps (specular etc.) for improved rendering. Other sets may have some or all of those features, but it’s meant as a guarantee of a minimum standard.

 Signature 

DAZ Studio Frequently Asked Questions

Index of free DAZ Studio scripts and plugins list

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3478
Joined  2012-02-06
ceramicemporium - 27 September 2012 11:21 PM

“If the character is just a texture set it will work on Genesis.  If it is a custom morph or morph preset that needs the Morphs++ it will not work directly on Genesis.  GenX is a plug-in that can transfer V4 and M4 morphs to Genesis.  So you would need GenX and the Morphs++ expansions for V4 and M4 and any other morph expansion set the character may require.”

Sorry to be naive about the terms you used- I am just starting out (and I do mean JUST) and it seems the 2nd and 3rd sentences contradict each other? Custom morphs/morph presets will not work in Genesis, then you said GenX can transfer V4 and M4 morphs. ARRGH. (It’s ME, not YOU.)  So it sounds like some of these are stuck in M4?

1. How would I know if the character is a “texture set?” or a custom morph, or morph present?
2. Whats the difference in a custom morph and a morph preset?
And is this right? I need to know how to tell if this is a texture set (then no V4 or M4 required, but GenX and Morphs++ are required.)

smile Appreciate the help but I am LOST (as usual.)

Take these guys for example, charming dudes that they are.
3.  If I am just doing the Genesis figure, would I or would I not have to have the Michael 4 Morphs++ for Stefan? (below)

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/stefan-for-m4-and-genesis
Stefan has a list of stuff required, so I assume ALL of these are, correct?
This product requires:  Michael 4 Morphs++  Genesis Evolution: Morph Bundle V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis

4. If I wanted to do Shaw for Genesis, would I need the Morphs++
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/shaw-for-m4
This product requires:  Michael 4 Morphs++

I bought Stefan before I bought the V4 and M4 Shapes for Genesis. The texture worked fine, and the morphs worked too (applied to the Genesis Basic Male shape), but the end result wasn’t the same as how he looks when applied to the M4 shape, as intended. This is basically reiterating what Richard said…but I thought I’d chime in since I can speak from personal experience with these products.

Stefan’s a great character…I highly recommend him.

 Signature 

Community Volunteer
Monthly New User Contests!

My tutorials and FAQs | My Gallery | My Render Thread
Visit my world… Tornalia.com | http://scottlivingston.deviantart.com

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  16477
Joined  2009-01-22

These are all very helpful answers to ceramicemporium’s original question. I’m sure they find them very useful. It has been answered but in some very tech speak some times. I’m going to combine all this info into one plain New User type answer.

ceramicemporium you can not buy a M4/V4 character from the store and then just use it on the M4/V4 Genesis Shapes. The M4/V4 Characters require a List of shaping morphs (Morphs ++, Muscle Morphs, whatever is listed as needed) for the M4/V4 character to work (Look) as shown in the store. The M4/V4 Genesis shapes do not have those needed morphs built into them. You can use any Textures from the Characters M4/V4 on the M4/V4 Genesis shapes but the custom form (shape) will not apply (some a tad but not fully).

To Transfer a M4/V4 Character Fully to Genesis you will need the Gen X plugin. Then you will also need ALL the M4/V4 morphs that are used in the M4/V4 character you wish to transfer to the Genesis M4/V4 shapes as well as the base M4/V4 figures to use the morphs on. Then and only then can you transfer a character made for M4/V4 to the Genesis M4/V4 shapes.

All this can get very pricey, the Gen X plugin was really made for us old timers who have a collection of M4/V4 stuff to be converted to the new Genesis figure. As a new user I would stick to buying Genesis only characters and Shaping morphs. Then try your own hand at creating the figures you need for your art. If you only wish to use the Genesis figure. The M4/V4 figures work just as well (except for some shape tweaks) as Genesis in Daz Studio 4.5.

I hope this helps, and others understand why I posted this answer.

 Signature 

Exile, Drows Walk: A Tale of Jaderail starts here. Free pulp fiction at its Fantasy best, Updated 2/3/14.
Proud Member of the Bald Wizards Club My stuff at DeviantArt

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Addict
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6890
Joined  2012-09-10

Hi Jaderail smile Was actually hoping you’d chime in, I found it very helpful on the first 20 questions I asked (remember me, lol? BTW, was that ever made into a sticky?)  We like so many of the already made V4/M4’s that we already have them, and not too pricey due to the nice sales that are ongoing. Also a platinum member. (If anyone reading this thread is also a newbie, GO PLATINUM. Those 1.99 items will earn you back every penny, as will the 30 percent off all the Daz created items)

Anyway, the explanations are so helpful, as you are right, they were in the forums before in various fragments, but over my head technically. I know it’s hard to remember when using a term, that it’s complicated or relates to another term and a big domino effect. I felt I was using Tinker Toys, and tinkering in circles, coming back to the first tinker. (In other words, some people were using the base of the word to explain the word, like render to explain rendering as an example.) You and the others on this thread make it VERY clear. smile Always appreciate you!

And thanks Scott for the imput on Stefan- he looks like a really versatile character and its good to know how much you like him/ your experience. Also appreciate the info on the Elites from the other poster- I was at least in the ballpark.

 Signature 

SILO Step By Step
The Art Studio: Thread #4   Product Discussions
Beginners Videos Thread-

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 September 2012 03:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  16477
Joined  2009-01-22

Yes I remember you, and nope no Sticky. Thank you for pointing New Users to the Plat Club. It is IMHO still the way to go if you want content at a very good price. I chimed in only because I thought the answers were getting too Tech Speak heavy. It is hard for some of us (me included) to remember that New Users do not know all this 3D speak at the start. The jargon just becomes the way we talk and sometimes we should all just take a step back and go, “Would I have understood that when I first started?”

 Signature 

Exile, Drows Walk: A Tale of Jaderail starts here. Free pulp fiction at its Fantasy best, Updated 2/3/14.
Proud Member of the Bald Wizards Club My stuff at DeviantArt

Profile