Digital Art Zone

That what the new official plugin for DS would be about Daz friendly with all presets and access to database straight from DS converting lights and materials for the best way , you need to take the time and see it for yourself , I wish I could say more but I can’t at this moment but you can trust me on that as it will set up DS in total new light and closer to the realism as ever before , other way it would not make sense .. beside that all the plugin is integrated plugin as the surface or scene tab or dynamic clothing or anime blocks .. so users will feel more at home and don;t have to export and struggle with nodes and material setups or how to operate camera .

yeah I’m waiting for them to wakeup and send me my standalone license since that is needed to use the plugin. I know the plugin isn’t ready yet but tinkering in the core program by itself with teach me how much to appreciate the plugin when it is available.

I am not negative at all .. it may sounds like but it is not , forum replies can create wrong illusions .. it is depend of how you take it ..

people use color maps as bump maps in octane to save the memory on older cards , and thanks to that the result are not as good, bump maps or normal maps help to break the reflections to create the correct specular that create the right surface we recognize as realistic and without it the surface will never looks good , bump maps and normal maps are here the most important aspect but also in Poser or Ds no matter real reflection or fake specular .
Octane materials is based on the first old school concept as 3d max or carrara , later the mat gurus tried to create alternative shaders to improve the speed of rendering and giving the end users better results , we go this way until today , but thanks to the modern technology   and computers we finally can skip the alternatives and return back to the actual first concept that why entering octane is good to have some background regarding to shader nodes but also an empty cup and think simple way following the nature around us and how the surface behave ..  and trust me I still can create more realistic stuff using real reflections in Poser and DS as with fake specular materials , I know people that can setup a scene with a simple stuff and render it in sec and I know people that will mix and make the nodes so clumpy and render on the same speed as regular software as they don’t know better thinking it is the way ..  but the answer is much more simple as it sounds ..  but you know , everyone have own workflow on things they do for so long and sometimes breaking own rules is hard .. but in this case there is not alternative other as starting from zero and build it up in new way

larsmidnatt - 25 September 2012 08:23 AM

Mec4D - 25 September 2012 08:10 AM

and sorry for the reply but you got me started as well lol

Ok I think I understand what you are saying now. I agree people should learn the programs they are using. Your comment seemed like it was talking about Poser or Daz and not about people using other tools incorrectly.

For clarity on my part, when I said let people use color texture maps in bump map I thought you meant in DS or poser. And even in those programs its not the best way to go…

that is exactly good , if you learn your ways now with the core later would be for you everything more simple as you know exactly what happening and why , but I assume that the usage of future plugin for DS would be so easy as now using material presets and click the button , I did not expected wonders in the beginning as I am always skeptic but i changed my mind after , and beside that everyone will need to own the core to use the plugin so you not waste here money on anything and for the engine $99 is nothing compared to others but the price may change in the future so it will be not so cheap for sure.
I learn everyday about the new stuff and will share all important info and stuff with everyone that would be interested but that would be after the official release as now I can’t due to my legal agreement but I just try to give you all a little hope for the sure better tomorrow and if you will not like what is coming you can hate me ... I don’t try to sell you anything as I am not paid for that , I just have a passion and as you, I want new better and faster tool to work with and so far it was the best money I spend so far for a rendering app and I spend a lot in the past years for many apps that promised something I could never make true for myself . 

larsmidnatt - 25 September 2012 08:32 AM

yeah I’m waiting for them to wakeup and send me my standalone license since that is needed to use the plugin. I know the plugin isn’t ready yet but tinkering in the core program by itself with teach me how much to appreciate the plugin when it is available.

Mec4D - 25 September 2012 08:59 AM

I am not negative at all .. it may sounds like but it is not , forum replies can create wrong illusions .. it is depend of how you take it ..

Yeah I think we all fall victim to that sometimes. It’s tough when you don’t know everything the poster is thinking or haven’t talked with them before.

Mec4D - 25 September 2012 08:59 AM

case there is not alternative other as starting from zero and build it up in new way

I hear what your saying, clear your mind and don’t bring in your bad habits.  I use a variety of different shaders and then I also use Reality/Lux. Each have their own way of thinking and I don’t mind learning another toolset. The reason I’m willing to risk the investment in Octane is that I don’t think I’ll be starting from nothing since I can leverage some good examples from the a community that is in place.

The octane forums seemed pretty supportive which is what sold me on it.

I only use the diffuse map from any textures i purchase from DAZ.
In octane you can use a marble texture bump map (no raster image), SSS is done with a scattering medium node (no raster image)

The only time i use more than diffuse texture is for a normal map, on an extreme close up.

I think this is an ok render at 20 min. (normal map only on the hair)

no post work, so the color is a bit off, i usually do quite a bit of post in after effects.

That doesn’t look ‘technically’ perfect. 

Like I said earlier, the reason why there wasn’t much for ‘skin’ is that there hadn’t been much done before. 

The idea of using a simple map to provide your colors (diffusion map) and then letting the software handle everything else, on the fly, is very appealing.

I think it’s a mistake to try to achieve the perfect render.

The perfect feature film,  commercial or advertising image is made by a number of steps usually with very specific program for each step.

the render engine is in the middle, not the end.

Alex L - 25 September 2012 08:07 AM

Poser & DS in particular have their own bag of tricks that are specific to these programs & in some cases deviate from what would otherwise be considered “standard operating procedure” in any other 3D software.

And that is one of the biggest mistake made in poserworld in the past!
if those programs would mean something in the 3d industry, they have to follow the big guys the good way or better stop developing.

creativemodelsbe - 25 September 2012 01:20 PM

Alex L - 25 September 2012 08:07 AM

Poser & DS in particular have their own bag of tricks that are specific to these programs & in some cases deviate from what would otherwise be considered “standard operating procedure” in any other 3D software.

And that is one of the biggest mistake made in poserworld in the past!
if those programs would mean something in the 3d industry, they have to follow the big guys the good way or better stop developing.

Not sure it was a big mistake if they are making digital art accessible to more people. Considering Poser is still around it probably relates to it’s strengths, simply following the “big guys” doesn’t work for everyone. It’s worked for so long and this GPU rendering stuff is new. I don’t think allowing people to make artwork more easily for the last 15 years was a mistake at all.

Not everyone wants to use that “big boy” software either. I think Daz and Poser have their own niche, but it’s great that plugins and export options allow them to go a different path if the user wants to.

Whats next..? Vray? Please let that happen LOL. I’m just glad all these render engines are becoming available..So what happens now? Are people going to jump off the reality bandwagon and use this? what are the pros and cons?

Zev0 - 25 September 2012 02:42 PM

Whats next..? Vray? Please let that happen LOL. I’m just glad all these render engines are becoming available..So what happens now? Are people going to jump off the reality bandwagon and use this? what are the pros and cons?

I think a few people may choose to switch but I think that part of the decision with be resources. Reality was only $49 dollars for me on sale. Normally $70 I think. It didn’t require a great computer, just patience. I was able to get lux network render to work on most of my old computers.

For Octane you need a good Nvidia card, so that cost more than most of my old computers are worth. Frankly I was able to get it to work on my 6 year old 8800gts but the 640mb of memory was limiting. I’ve read about things you can do to address that but frankly more ram is better.

Since Octane is in beta its 99euros, which is currently 132 USD. That’s a sizable increase in price over Reality. Sure its half price right now, but it still a lot more to spend. I’m not saying its not worth it, but money can be a deciding factor especially for people who don’t have it to spend.

That’s not even getting into the actual plugins themselves, They both seem to have a Online Database of shared materials so that is similiar. I’ve only looked at the videos for the Daz Octane plugin so I can’t speak about it too much. I think it’s all hush hush at the moment but the videos they posted on the Octane forums are helpful.

I hate nvidia. I’m more an ATI guy:) Not gonna get me a card just to render.

Zev0 - 25 September 2012 03:06 PM

Not gonna get me a card just to render.

I said that a few months ago.

And when I said the good Nvidia card was worth more than my old computers I really do mean my old computers. And I chose a video card with 3 gigs of ram. You can get away with 1 gig I hear, but 2 is strongly recommended.

I’m more a gamer, So I ain’t stripping out my SLi hd 6450 setup. Plus I hate Nvidia:)