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Genesis Zbrush Morph Questions
Posted: 24 September 2012 12:09 AM   [ Ignore ]
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So I’m having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I’ve searched all over and can’t fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 02:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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AngryDragonRider - 24 September 2012 12:09 AM

So I’m having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I’ve searched all over and can’t fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

Well if D/S4.5 is working the same as D/S4.0 for how to create morphs, after you made the morph in D/S—you then have to “save” it in order to keep it. Absolutely nothing changes for what one is looking at [in D/S4] so it’s possibly a good idea to just make it part of the workflow to do so as soon as the morph is created and showing up in the Parameters Tab [or wherever it’s to show up]. In D/S4.0 it’s File > Save As > Support Asset > ...

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Posted: 24 September 2012 05:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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A morph can’t subdivide the mesh - but you should, to an extent, be able to save the fine detail as a set of displacement maps that can be applied along with the morph to get the final shape. You will, however, need an OBJ that has had the material groups combined by number and to load that into ZBrush with materials as groups, in order to generate a separate map for each area of the figure (and you will need to decide which uv set to use, of course). There are several tutorials on this (the technique, other than picking an initial UV set, is the same with Genesis and the fourth generation figures).

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Posted: 24 September 2012 08:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Patience55 - 24 September 2012 02:55 AM
AngryDragonRider - 24 September 2012 12:09 AM

So I’m having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I’ve searched all over and can’t fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

Well if D/S4.5 is working the same as D/S4.0 for how to create morphs, after you made the morph in D/S—you then have to “save” it in order to keep it. Absolutely nothing changes for what one is looking at [in D/S4] so it’s possibly a good idea to just make it part of the workflow to do so as soon as the morph is created and showing up in the Parameters Tab [or wherever it’s to show up]. In D/S4.0 it’s File > Save As > Support Asset > ...

Thanks. Thats one problem solved smile

Richard Haseltine - 24 September 2012 05:14 AM

A morph can’t subdivide the mesh - but you should, to an extent, be able to save the fine detail as a set of displacement maps that can be applied along with the morph to get the final shape. You will, however, need an OBJ that has had the material groups combined by number and to load that into ZBrush with materials as groups, in order to generate a separate map for each area of the figure (and you will need to decide which uv set to use, of course). There are several tutorials on this (the technique, other than picking an initial UV set, is the same with Genesis and the fourth generation figures).

I know about displacement maps, but I’m talking about actually changing Genesis. Brute X, Troll, Anubis and Kong are all examples of what I’m trying to achieve (hopefully) - extreme morphs that are not dependant on any image maps to change and keep their detail. Of course displacement maps are useful but not exactly how I want to change the look of my characters. Some things just can’t be displaced enough. My real quesion,I guess, is how to get my subdivided morphs back into DAZ studio?

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Posted: 24 September 2012 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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So according to this video I just watched (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFRUVZHW_hw) Genesis shouldn’t be subdivided at all since GoZ exports from Zbrush however many pixels it imported. So my new question is - how the heck do I morph this sucker without breakin the mesh? All I want to do is make monsters, not kill Genesis lol.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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AngryDragonRider - 24 September 2012 08:16 AM
Patience55 - 24 September 2012 02:55 AM
AngryDragonRider - 24 September 2012 12:09 AM

So I’m having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I’ve searched all over and can’t fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

Well if D/S4.5 is working the same as D/S4.0 for how to create morphs, after you made the morph in D/S—you then have to “save” it in order to keep it. Absolutely nothing changes for what one is looking at [in D/S4] so it’s possibly a good idea to just make it part of the workflow to do so as soon as the morph is created and showing up in the Parameters Tab [or wherever it’s to show up]. In D/S4.0 it’s File > Save As > Support Asset > ...

Thanks. Thats one problem solved smile

Richard Haseltine - 24 September 2012 05:14 AM

A morph can’t subdivide the mesh - but you should, to an extent, be able to save the fine detail as a set of displacement maps that can be applied along with the morph to get the final shape. You will, however, need an OBJ that has had the material groups combined by number and to load that into ZBrush with materials as groups, in order to generate a separate map for each area of the figure (and you will need to decide which uv set to use, of course). There are several tutorials on this (the technique, other than picking an initial UV set, is the same with Genesis and the fourth generation figures).

I know about displacement maps, but I’m talking about actually changing Genesis. Brute X, Troll, Anubis and Kong are all examples of what I’m trying to achieve (hopefully) - extreme morphs that are not dependant on any image maps to change and keep their detail. Of course displacement maps are useful but not exactly how I want to change the look of my characters. Some things just can’t be displaced enough. My real quesion,I guess, is how to get my subdivided morphs back into DAZ studio?

I think this is when the “Morph Loader Advanced” is used. Haven’t done the work myself to be sure of the workflow but most definitely there’s a way. When the bridge refuses to make the morph it offers to make a prop [D/S4]. If you accept that, should be exportable as an .obj [delete everything else in the scene first]. Load up a fresh Genesis, use the Morph Loader however ... and eventually save the file again same as before. Extreme morphing can also involve making some bone adjustments and/or other fine tuning ... and while I do recall seeing a tutorial concerning it don’t have the link handy. Most likely over at YouTube.com.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 12:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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A morph can move only the existing vertices, it can’t create new ones. If you look at the items you mention untextured you will see that they lack the fine detail that shows in renders - that’s down to a mix of texturing, with baked on or painted AO effects, and displacement.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 12:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 24 September 2012 12:38 PM

A morph can move only the existing vertices, it can’t create new ones. If you look at the items you mention untextured you will see that they lack the fine detail that shows in renders - that’s down to a mix of texturing, with baked on or painted AO effects, and displacement.

The more extreme, what we think of as morphs perhaps, would they have been done then with geografting?

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Posted: 24 September 2012 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Only is body parts were added. Remember that a morph can also have associated changes to the joint centres, which makes more extreme changes possible.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 03:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Yes, that would add into the recipe.

Thing is though, there was one apparent “morph” which AFAIK was done using Zbrush, for Genesis that when I sent it to and fro Hexagon, D/S4 rejected it as a morph claiming changes had been made. I had not changed one vertex. So I know the person who created the morph did [actually that point is pretty obvious anyway] but like the OP, would love to know how that was managed. If one can change/create new for a morph or morph-type using Zbrush, should be able to do something similar then using Hexagon.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 03:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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By definition, a morph is a list of deltas (changes in position) matched to the vertices of a mesh (or a body part, for older figures). There’s simply no where to put extra vertices. I suspect something else was going on with the morph that wouldn’t return from Hexagon.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 06:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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If you follow the tutorial listed below in my signature, you will be able to change it and ave the morphs with no issue
... and subdividing is a no-no.

Also, if you change the shape drastically, you will also need to do an ‘Adjust Rigging to Shap’e and an ‘ERC Freeze’ so that when you move your new Genesis mophed figured, the bends will be in the right places. (It’s in the tutorial).

When you are done, turn your morph down to zero and then save as morph asset. If you don’t turn your morph down before saving, that same morph will pop up whenever you load Genesis.

If you want to add limbs, then Geo-Grafting is the way to go… mind you, this is apparently either a very jealously guarded secret on how to do or those who have made them and sold them here have either discovered how to do them by luck and cannot replicate because they have forgotten or because they sold either their soul or a first born.

If you want a LOT of detail, moreso than can be captured with a morph, you need a displacement map. I am working on a tutorial for that now.

PM me if you have any questions about the tut but give it a good read through and it should answer many of the questions I too once had before learning and documenting the process.

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<End of transmission from Oz>
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis/G2F/G2M Full Body Morph for DAZ Studio Pro 4.6 by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis Partial Body Morph in DAZ Studio Pro 4 Using the DForm Tool by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Applying Shaders by RKane_1 (as stolen blatantly from Jaderail)

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Posted: 24 September 2012 09:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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RKane_1 - 24 September 2012 06:46 PM

... edit ...

If you want to add limbs, then Geo-Grafting is the way to go… mind you, this is apparently either a very jealously guarded secret on how to do or those who have made them and sold them here have either discovered how to do them by luck and cannot replicate because they have forgotten or because they sold either their soul or a first born.

... edit ...

hehehe ... not quite I’m sure. There was an ongoing conversation in the previous forum on the topic. As I recall some may have teamed up to work on their projects. Check over in my clothing thread in Nuts ‘N Bolts ... look for a unicorn wink  Any Geo-Grafting item is to be cleared through the company before release. Period.

I might take you up on that offer. New machine to be set up [hopefully] this coming weekend. Give me a few months to load all my Daz treasures ... by then I expect we’ll be at D/S7.5 or 8 ... and have to download all the updated files [why did I buy so much stuff?!] “all over again”.

 

 

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Posted: 24 September 2012 09:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 24 September 2012 03:32 PM

By definition, a morph is a list of deltas (changes in position) matched to the vertices of a mesh (or a body part, for older figures). There’s simply no where to put extra vertices. I suspect something else was going on with the morph that wouldn’t return from Hexagon.

Okay then. I’ll agree with you. It’s a mystery for solving another day.

edit: I just checked the workflow I had used ... works fine for the morphs that came with Genesis [basic woman for instance]. But the same workflow failed on the other product which was toted as a morph for Genesis ... so yes then. Has to be more to said product than meets the eye.

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Posted: 24 September 2012 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Lots of good information here - thanks guys! Between those tutorials and a few tricks I learned by trial and error I think my Genesis issues are resolved for now. There will certainly be more in the near future raspberry smile

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Posted: 25 September 2012 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Cool. I look forward to seeing your work! smile

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<End of transmission from Oz>
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis/G2F/G2M Full Body Morph for DAZ Studio Pro 4.6 by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis Partial Body Morph in DAZ Studio Pro 4 Using the DForm Tool by RKane_1
TUTORIAL - Applying Shaders by RKane_1 (as stolen blatantly from Jaderail)

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