Genesis Zbrush Morph Questions

So I'm having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I've searched all over and can't fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

Comments

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,170
    edited December 1969

    So I'm having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

    Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

    Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I've searched all over and can't fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

    Well if D/S4.5 is working the same as D/S4.0 for how to create morphs, after you made the morph in D/S -- you then have to "save" it in order to keep it. Absolutely nothing changes for what one is looking at [in D/S4] so it's possibly a good idea to just make it part of the workflow to do so as soon as the morph is created and showing up in the Parameters Tab [or wherever it's to show up]. In D/S4.0 it's File > Save As > Support Asset > ...

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,410
    edited December 1969

    A morph can't subdivide the mesh - but you should, to an extent, be able to save the fine detail as a set of displacement maps that can be applied along with the morph to get the final shape. You will, however, need an OBJ that has had the material groups combined by number and to load that into ZBrush with materials as groups, in order to generate a separate map for each area of the figure (and you will need to decide which uv set to use, of course). There are several tutorials on this (the technique, other than picking an initial UV set, is the same with Genesis and the fourth generation figures).

  • AngryDragonRiderAngryDragonRider Posts: 0
    edited September 2012

    So I'm having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

    Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

    Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I've searched all over and can't fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

    Well if D/S4.5 is working the same as D/S4.0 for how to create morphs, after you made the morph in D/S -- you then have to "save" it in order to keep it. Absolutely nothing changes for what one is looking at [in D/S4] so it's possibly a good idea to just make it part of the workflow to do so as soon as the morph is created and showing up in the Parameters Tab [or wherever it's to show up]. In D/S4.0 it's File > Save As > Support Asset > ...

    Thanks. Thats one problem solved :)

    A morph can't subdivide the mesh - but you should, to an extent, be able to save the fine detail as a set of displacement maps that can be applied along with the morph to get the final shape. You will, however, need an OBJ that has had the material groups combined by number and to load that into ZBrush with materials as groups, in order to generate a separate map for each area of the figure (and you will need to decide which uv set to use, of course). There are several tutorials on this (the technique, other than picking an initial UV set, is the same with Genesis and the fourth generation figures).

    I know about displacement maps, but I'm talking about actually changing Genesis. Brute X, Troll, Anubis and Kong are all examples of what I'm trying to achieve (hopefully) - extreme morphs that are not dependant on any image maps to change and keep their detail. Of course displacement maps are useful but not exactly how I want to change the look of my characters. Some things just can't be displaced enough. My real quesion,I guess, is how to get my subdivided morphs back into DAZ studio?

    Post edited by AngryDragonRider on
  • AngryDragonRiderAngryDragonRider Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    So according to this video I just watched (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFRUVZHW_hw) Genesis shouldn't be subdivided at all since GoZ exports from Zbrush however many pixels it imported. So my new question is - how the heck do I morph this sucker without breakin the mesh? All I want to do is make monsters, not kill Genesis lol.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,170
    edited December 1969

    So I'm having some trouble with some of my morphs coming over from Zbrush. I use GoZ to export Genesis to Zbrush and back again. My first few attempts at morphing Geneis ripped the mesh - I subdivided it to level 4 and sculpted wth no problems. However, when exported back into DS4.5 the morph is not as detailed as what I am looking at in my Zbrush. I know its possible to change Genesis into any number of extreme shapes - what am I doing wrong?

    Also, for the morphs that I *am* happy with (done with no subdivision), they load up and work fine - but when I close DS 4.5 they dissapear! How do I get them to stay in the genepool?

    Sorry for the newbie questions, and also sorry if this is the wrong foruim, but I've searched all over and can't fnd any answers to these problems. Hopefully one of you very wise people can help me out.

    Well if D/S4.5 is working the same as D/S4.0 for how to create morphs, after you made the morph in D/S -- you then have to "save" it in order to keep it. Absolutely nothing changes for what one is looking at [in D/S4] so it's possibly a good idea to just make it part of the workflow to do so as soon as the morph is created and showing up in the Parameters Tab [or wherever it's to show up]. In D/S4.0 it's File > Save As > Support Asset > ...

    Thanks. Thats one problem solved :)

    A morph can't subdivide the mesh - but you should, to an extent, be able to save the fine detail as a set of displacement maps that can be applied along with the morph to get the final shape. You will, however, need an OBJ that has had the material groups combined by number and to load that into ZBrush with materials as groups, in order to generate a separate map for each area of the figure (and you will need to decide which uv set to use, of course). There are several tutorials on this (the technique, other than picking an initial UV set, is the same with Genesis and the fourth generation figures).

    I know about displacement maps, but I'm talking about actually changing Genesis. Brute X, Troll, Anubis and Kong are all examples of what I'm trying to achieve (hopefully) - extreme morphs that are not dependant on any image maps to change and keep their detail. Of course displacement maps are useful but not exactly how I want to change the look of my characters. Some things just can't be displaced enough. My real quesion,I guess, is how to get my subdivided morphs back into DAZ studio?

    I think this is when the "Morph Loader Advanced" is used. Haven't done the work myself to be sure of the workflow but most definitely there's a way. When the bridge refuses to make the morph it offers to make a prop [D/S4]. If you accept that, should be exportable as an .obj [delete everything else in the scene first]. Load up a fresh Genesis, use the Morph Loader however ... and eventually save the file again same as before. Extreme morphing can also involve making some bone adjustments and/or other fine tuning ... and while I do recall seeing a tutorial concerning it don't have the link handy. Most likely over at YouTube.com.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,410
    edited December 1969

    A morph can move only the existing vertices, it can't create new ones. If you look at the items you mention untextured you will see that they lack the fine detail that shows in renders - that's down to a mix of texturing, with baked on or painted AO effects, and displacement.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,170
    edited December 1969

    A morph can move only the existing vertices, it can't create new ones. If you look at the items you mention untextured you will see that they lack the fine detail that shows in renders - that's down to a mix of texturing, with baked on or painted AO effects, and displacement.

    The more extreme, what we think of as morphs perhaps, would they have been done then with geografting?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,410
    edited December 1969

    Only is body parts were added. Remember that a morph can also have associated changes to the joint centres, which makes more extreme changes possible.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,170
    edited December 1969

    Yes, that would add into the recipe.

    Thing is though, there was one apparent "morph" which AFAIK was done using Zbrush, for Genesis that when I sent it to and fro Hexagon, D/S4 rejected it as a morph claiming changes had been made. I had not changed one vertex. So I know the person who created the morph did [actually that point is pretty obvious anyway] but like the OP, would love to know how that was managed. If one can change/create new for a morph or morph-type using Zbrush, should be able to do something similar then using Hexagon.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,410
    edited December 1969

    By definition, a morph is a list of deltas (changes in position) matched to the vertices of a mesh (or a body part, for older figures). There's simply no where to put extra vertices. I suspect something else was going on with the morph that wouldn't return from Hexagon.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited September 2012

    If you follow the tutorial listed below in my signature, you will be able to change it and ave the morphs with no issue
    ... and subdividing is a no-no.

    Also, if you change the shape drastically, you will also need to do an 'Adjust Rigging to Shap'e and an 'ERC Freeze' so that when you move your new Genesis mophed figured, the bends will be in the right places. (It's in the tutorial).

    When you are done, turn your morph down to zero and then save as morph asset. If you don't turn your morph down before saving, that same morph will pop up whenever you load Genesis.

    If you want to add limbs, then Geo-Grafting is the way to go... mind you, this is apparently either a very jealously guarded secret on how to do or those who have made them and sold them here have either discovered how to do them by luck and cannot replicate because they have forgotten or because they sold either their soul or a first born.

    If you want a LOT of detail, moreso than can be captured with a morph, you need a displacement map. I am working on a tutorial for that now.

    PM me if you have any questions about the tut but give it a good read through and it should answer many of the questions I too once had before learning and documenting the process.

    Post edited by RKane_1 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,170
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:
    ... edit ...

    If you want to add limbs, then Geo-Grafting is the way to go... mind you, this is apparently either a very jealously guarded secret on how to do or those who have made them and sold them here have either discovered how to do them by luck and cannot replicate because they have forgotten or because they sold either their soul or a first born.

    ... edit ...

    hehehe ... not quite I'm sure. There was an ongoing conversation in the previous forum on the topic. As I recall some may have teamed up to work on their projects. Check over in my clothing thread in Nuts 'N Bolts ... look for a unicorn ;-) Any Geo-Grafting item is to be cleared through the company before release. Period.

    I might take you up on that offer. New machine to be set up [hopefully] this coming weekend. Give me a few months to load all my Daz treasures ... by then I expect we'll be at D/S7.5 or 8 ... and have to download all the updated files [why did I buy so much stuff?!] "all over again".

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,170
    edited September 2012

    By definition, a morph is a list of deltas (changes in position) matched to the vertices of a mesh (or a body part, for older figures). There's simply no where to put extra vertices. I suspect something else was going on with the morph that wouldn't return from Hexagon.

    Okay then. I'll agree with you. It's a mystery for solving another day.

    edit: I just checked the workflow I had used ... works fine for the morphs that came with Genesis [basic woman for instance]. But the same workflow failed on the other product which was toted as a morph for Genesis ... so yes then. Has to be more to said product than meets the eye.

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • AngryDragonRiderAngryDragonRider Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Lots of good information here - thanks guys! Between those tutorials and a few tricks I learned by trial and error I think my Genesis issues are resolved for now. There will certainly be more in the near future :P :)

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    Cool. I look forward to seeing your work! :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,303
    edited December 1969

    One thing I'm quickly learning about Genesis and morphs is ALWAYS send through the bridge at it's BASE resolution not the Sub-Divided resolution that is loaded as default. If bridged at the High Def resolution this will smooth out details when it's imported into ZBrush and then back to DAZ Studio.

    Also I've found, since I'm in the middle of redoing all the female morphs to remember to mask off the hands, feet and head. Then go to the Mask are in the Tools palette and Sharpen once and the Blur once. This seems to help even it out and gives a tiny bit of give when your morph might affect wrists, ankles and neck areas.

    I had a huge wake up call this AM when I was purring along and realized I wasn't masking the areas I was mentioning and the teeth, hands, ears and feet (esp the toes) all lost ALLOT of detail. Toes looked like little skinny worms when the morph was applied in DAZ Studio. So this is step that might be considered as a "just in case" if your working on the body only.

    Now of course this wouldn't apply if your working on a face morph. For that make sure if it's JUST the face use your Ctrl + Shift while clicking directly on the face and this will hide everything but the face so you can work and not worry about accidentally deforming another part you don't want touched. Even with face morphs make sure and export Genesis to ZB at a BASE resolution....

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 1,150
    edited December 1969

    I've had a lot of luck when concentrating on a local area in using PolyGroup & Autogroup by UV. This works especially well when dealing with isolated face morphs. I HATE when I am working on a lip morph and I have screwed up the teeth.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 5,303
    edited December 1969

    YUP, for sure man. When I zoomed in on the feet and kept sliding the morph from 0 to 100% and saw them become little worms it totally made me wonder what the HELL I did to cause that? Then I notice the mouth was slightly opened so then I opened the mouth and saw the teeth look like some sauced hillbilly and notice the ears, back of the head and fingers were also muchly reduced in detail and smaller. SO from now on it's all about masking those areas to keep things looking normal. Lotta hours down the drain but that's the way it goes. I'm not releasing anything that's doing that, no way! Community deserves the best. I give my best...

  • marblemarble Posts: 1,017
    edited December 1969

    A morph can't subdivide the mesh - but you should, to an extent, be able to save the fine detail as a set of displacement maps that can be applied along with the morph to get the final shape. You will, however, need an OBJ that has had the material groups combined by number and to load that into ZBrush with materials as groups, in order to generate a separate map for each area of the figure (and you will need to decide which uv set to use, of course). There are several tutorials on this (the technique, other than picking an initial UV set, is the same with Genesis and the fourth generation figures).

    I came across this after a long search for information on how to produce displacement maps for D|S. You mention tutorials above but, as I've indicated, my search skills may be on the decline. Could someone please point me to some of these - or at least one comprehensive document or video?

    I've seen products which use displacement for ageing effects (wrinkles, veins, etc.) and I have ZBrush but have no clue how to produce these effects. I'd like to make realistic scars and other surface deformations.

    Thanks :)

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 349
    edited December 1969

    I think this subject really need better video tutorials, that explain all this.

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