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Bryce 7.1 and “Out of Memory”
Posted: 19 September 2012 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I asked this in another forum and it was suggested I repost it in the Bryce forum, so here goes:

I’m working on a system with plenty of RAM (Windows XP Pro, 3GM RAM), and I’ve made sure Bryce 7.1 is LAA-enabled (that utility that got posted a looong time ago), and yet, when saving some large scenes, I still get that damned “Out of memory!”  error.  The weird thing is that it does the same thing every time—when saving, it gets to 99%, then that error pops up.

Seems to me if it can get to 99% there shouldn’t be anything stopping it from getting to 100%.  Anybody else run up against this and know how to fix it?

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Posted: 19 September 2012 09:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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tnpir4000 - 19 September 2012 08:42 AM

I asked this in another forum and it was suggested I repost it in the Bryce forum, so here goes:

I’m working on a system with plenty of RAM (Windows XP Pro, 3GM RAM), and I’ve made sure Bryce 7.1 is LAA-enabled (that utility that got posted a looong time ago), and yet, when saving some large scenes, I still get that damned “Out of memory!”  error.  The weird thing is that it does the same thing every time—when saving, it gets to 99%, then that error pops up.

Seems to me if it can get to 99% there shouldn’t be anything stopping it from getting to 100%.  Anybody else run up against this and know how to fix it?

I suspect the key to your problem is large scenes. That and even though you’re using LAA you’re still not giving Bryce all it can use. I say that because LAA can allow Bryce to use up to either 3.4 or 3.6 GB I’m not sure because I’ve heard both. Either way though that’s more then all the memory you have. So between that and the fact that some of that also goes to running your OS and any other things you might have running (anti virus, IM, media player, etc.), Bryce is still not getting all it can to work with.

Another thing to consider is this, is that a prebuilt machine like a Dell or HP or some brand of laptop? I ask because 3GB is an odd configuration for custom built machines but is common in prebuilt machines that use onboard video. In those cases if say your video card is supposed to be 1GB then that one GB is coming from your 3GB of system memory leaving 2 for everything else. So while you think you’ve got more then enough you don’t You really need at least 4GB preferably 8 and an OS that can recognize that much memory.

Now intially I said your problem may just be large scenes just because it gets to 99% doesn’t mean there is some simple trick that will get you to 100% I understand your reasoning but it doesn’t always correlate that way. Sometimes a scene is too big because it just has too many objects and you really are out of memory. In that case all you can do is remove things until it does work. Sometimes though a scene is too large because of the textures used. Like for example, if you are importing one of the Elite Characters for V4 or M4 to populate the scene, their textures can be quite large in resolution like 4000x4000. A texture that size takes up alot of room and is only needed for extreme close up where you want to be able to count the pores in the character’s skin (not literally just figuratively). Otherwise that texture could be shrunk down to a more standard resolution like 1280 x1280 and everything will still look fine and you’ll use less memory. Of course you could also opt to use a lower resolution figure like say V3 Reduce Resolution or any of the several lorez figures offered at Daz by Predatron.

Now there is one thing that can eat into your memory enough to cause problems and that is the undo buffer, which I believe can cover up to 20 changes made. So if that’s what’s holding you back then the thing to do is save you scene just before rendering, close bryce down completely, restart Bryce and then reload the scene and then do whatever you were trying to do when you got the out of memory error. You unfortunately have to close Bryce to clean out the buffer but doing it that way should free up some memory if you made alot of adjustments to your scene prior to getting the intial error.

There is also a trick for the too many objects problem and that is to render the scene in layers and then combine those layers in like photoshop for example. Like one layer would be your background, another would be whatever figures or the main objects in your scene are and then another might be any additional props to complete the scene. That way Bryce never has to deal with the whole scene.

At this point though if it’s possible your best bet would be to get more memory and an OS that can make use of it. Like if you like XP so much there is an XP 64 although XP is going to fade into history soon so you really should consider upgrading to Windows 7.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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It’s an old Dell tower, actually.  I’ve got several 64-bit machines I’m working with, so I’m able to farm out the work to those machines and make up the difference.  It’s just frustrating!...I’ve got some 64-bit towers that came with Windows Vista, 8GB of RAM, I’m looking into transferring operations to one of them instead.

As for XP…it’s far from about to “fade into history,” believe me.  There are too many people who won’t upgrade past it after the Vista debacle, and plenty of others that are like me and can’t because some key programs won’t run on anything after XP.

I dual-boot between XP and Windows 7 now so I get the benefits of both, but still…

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Posted: 19 September 2012 10:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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@Brandon - if you have the LAA tool, you may also have the Process Monitor that is available for free on the same webpage. Start it, then start Bryce. Select Bryce in the drop down of the Monitor. You can see what memory Bryce only uses. When you hit the save button, you’ll notice that more memory is used. This is because the scene file is compressed and this is (partly or all?) done in memory before it is written to disk. For a scene you can successfully save, you will notice that once the file is written, you get the memory back.

The same is true when you load a scene. The compressed file is loaded into memory and then unpacked. When done, the file is dumped from memory. Your machine might just miss a few hundred kilos. Perhaps there are some services running you may stop and clear in the task manager. However, you will have trouble loading it again.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 10:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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@Horo:  I think maybe when we develop Bryce 8, we should make this part work better!...I’ve seen Bryce get up to 1.2GB of memory usage, I’ve enabled LAA and set paging file size to 6.5GB on two separate drives—in theory that should alleviate this problem but it still happens.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 10:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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But Bryce doesn’t page. It is all in memory, nothing can bleed over to the disk. This was Mac philosophy at the time and we inherited it. Bryce being still a 32 bit application with the 2GB (or 3.5 GB) memory limit is bad enough but that it doesn’t use virtual memory on a HD is worse. Of course, using the HD as virtual memory makes things really slow, but it would at least work.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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That explains why adjusting the paging file size isn’t helping.  That, then, DEFINITELY seems like something we need to add to Bryce 8 x86 if we ever make one.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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That goes without saying. Particularly if we want to take advantage of the Genesis content from Studio. It goes hard on the memory. It ought to be in DAZ 3D’s interest to give Bryce a better memory management.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Agreed…but you saw what the Bryce 7 development cycle was like, DAZ skipped over a lot of things that were in their interest, and the end product suffered as a result (the AML still doesn’t really work that well, and I discovered a pretty serious bug with the material editor)...but that’s a discussion for another time I think.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Yeah, there are already a couple of items on my growing list if we ever get there.

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Posted: 19 September 2012 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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tnpir4000 - 19 September 2012 09:38 AM

It’s an old Dell tower, actually.  I’ve got several 64-bit machines I’m working with, so I’m able to farm out the work to those machines and make up the difference.  It’s just frustrating!...I’ve got some 64-bit towers that came with Windows Vista, 8GB of RAM, I’m looking into transferring operations to one of them instead.

As for XP…it’s far from about to “fade into history,” believe me.  There are too many people who won’t upgrade past it after the Vista debacle, and plenty of others that are like me and can’t because some key programs won’t run on anything after XP.

I dual-boot between XP and Windows 7 now so I get the benefits of both, but still…

Well by that I meant it will no longer be supported. I’m sure there will be some that will never give up on XP but I doubt the public will get MS to postpone discontinuing support for another couple of years like they did when Vista failed.

Anyway to your situation the first step I would take would be to try it running from a machine able to access 4 or more GB’s of ram. If it’s still happening then we need to examine what exactly it is you’re doing (what’s in the scene, etc.) There are things that Bryce has problems with but usually they just cause a crash with no out of memory issue. More likely you’ll have to try some of the improvisions I suggested.

For what it’s worth I too got alot of out of memory issue before I had 4 or more GB and was running on XP then I went to XP 64 and used LAA and the out of memory issues went away except scenes where I knew it was heavily loaded. What really needs to happen since 3D models and their textures are growing ever larger in the resources they need, is for a 64 bit version of Bryce that can utilize as much memory as today’s computers can handle. Realistically that is probably more then a year away though.

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Posted: 22 September 2012 08:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I’ve heard about this LAA - what is it exactly?
I’ve guessed it’s some kind of utility to assist with Bridging Memory but know nothing more.
If it is that useful - please could someone tell me how to obtain and apply it.

Thanks
Terry

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Posted: 22 September 2012 08:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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@tdrd:  It’s a utility that lefts Bryce access memory greater than it’s limited 2 GB of memory use.  You can get the Large Address Aware utility here, http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112556 .  I don’t know all the specifics of the utility other than it allows Bryce to access memory over 2 GB.  Unless your computer has over 2 GB the utility isn’t of any benefit.

You started a thread on Out of Memory, that’s now on page two of this discussion area, where Mark talks more about this.  It’s also where I got the link listed above.

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Posted: 22 September 2012 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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@tdrd - if you download the LAA tool, download also the Process Monitor on the same page (free). It shows you the memory usage of a selected application. If your computer sports at least 4 GB of memory, Bryce can use up to around 3.4 GB instead of only 2 GB.

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Posted: 02 March 2014 05:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I’ve just had this out memory error I can’t see how this can happen as i have 16gb of ram can any one explain how this happens
thanks

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Posted: 02 March 2014 06:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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FireFoxx156 - 02 March 2014 05:52 AM

I’ve just had this out memory error I can’t see how this can happen as i have 16gb of ram can any one explain how this happens
thanks

It may be happening because Bryce can only address 2gb of your available ram and that limit has been exceeded or, if you are using LAA tool already, it make be because it has exceeded the 3.4gb limit as mentioned in the post above.  Either way, a single instance of Bryce cannot do justice to your 16gb of ram, because of the limitations of the software and the OS it is running under.

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