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Posted: 15 September 2012 10:53 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Can anyone go over quick comparison of Elite Human Surface Shader, UberSurface/UberSurface2, pwSurface2…

I noticed when applying UberSurface to one model, using UberSurface drastically improved it yet on Tamesis the HSS was better. How do these translate if rendering in Lux vs 3DLight?

Finally, have had trouble getting pwSurface to work.. I select surface and ctl+click, double click, etc… and nada, it doesn’t change the shader from whatever it is set to. Any idea what I am doing wrong?

ty

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Posted: 15 September 2012 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Can anyone go over quick comparison of Elite Human Surface Shader, UberSurface/UberSurface2, pwSurface2…

Ubershader is basically the EHSS with a couple of small additional abilities. Uber2 adds a layer on top of the layer already there that has its own bump/displacement/transparency etc. It also adds a couple of other settings as well I think. Have pw but never use it so no help there.

I noticed when applying UberSurface to one model, using UberSurface drastically improved it yet on Tamesis the HSS was better. How do these translate if rendering in Lux vs 3DLight?

I suspect that differences are at least partially due to how the original settings were set up. They do translate in to lux to a point but lux handles different types of surfaces differently in many cases. In other words most of the information goes to lux but some of it will not be used.

 

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Posted: 15 September 2012 11:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Ty Khory,

This is basically what I had understood. What I don’t understand is why applying Ubershader would cause Tamesis to decrease in quality when applying as it uses HSS to start. I’m also baffled why pwSurface didn’t work. I might have to reinstall. My understanding at one time was that pwSurface had some features Uber didn’t but I’m grasping at straws on it and can’t find my notes

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Posted: 15 September 2012 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I could be wrong but I suspect that when you add the uber to it that it is nuking some of the settings. Uber2 actually has a choice to apply it without doing that.

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Posted: 15 September 2012 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Thanks, I’ll have to try it. I have U2 but not installed yet.

If anyone has compared Uber and pw would love to hear what they’ve found.

On a separate but related note, am interested in people’s take on UberEnvironment2 vs LDP, what their experiences have been.

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Posted: 15 September 2012 11:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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If you have uber 2 then just cut to the chase and install it. It is far superior if you want to fiddle with shader presets and being able to upgrade from uber 1 without blowing the settings is wonderful.

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Posted: 15 September 2012 11:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Well Mattymanx was mentioning in another thread about pwSurface’s ability to control AO and quality per surface. What I’m wondering is if one can use Uber2 on some surfaces and pwSurface on others to cut down on render time. Do they play nice together?

I agree that the ability to upgrade to Uber2 and extend functionality without blowing all the settings out is a definite plus and am thinking that’s the best starting point.

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Posted: 15 September 2012 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Thinking back to some of the discussion on the old forums, on the SSS (subsurface scattering) topic, it comes down to HOW the various items are implemented in the two ‘families’  Uber does them one way and pwSurface another.  Supposedly they arrive at the same or similar endpoints.  Also there can be a speed factor involved. 

The two different approaches can, under certain conditions, vary vastly in how fast the render goes.

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Posted: 15 September 2012 08:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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In principle for the regular use both UberSurface2 and pwSurface2 are similar with regards to the basics, like mjc1016 already said, just reach the end result in a different way.

With regards to the ambient occlusion (AO), pwSurface2 is indeed able to do AO on surface basis when using regular non-AO lights which can come in handy depending on how much occlusion you would like to have in your scene and which lights you like to use. However, with UberSurface2 you can for example override the UE2 AO setting on a per surface basis as well (like you can with other Uber shaders as well).

For typical use, e.g. as skin shader I am using pwSurface2 more often than not. But on some occasions the UberSurface2 shader is simply better, as UberSurface2 got an almost complete 2nd layer (wrt. diffuse, specular, etc.) included in the shader. This allows for example to have a “wood material” as 1st layer plus a “paint material” as 2nd layer (with three blend choices). Especially if the characteristics of the two layers need to be distinctly different this can be a pain to achieve with other shaders.

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Posted: 15 September 2012 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Thanks for clarifying this Renpatsu, I saw the Ambient Active on/off feature in UberSurface, UberSurface2 (x2), and HSS so was wondering about that as it is often listed as one of pwSurfaces main advantages. If that’s the case, why do you use pw2, you don’t use UberEnvironment I take it?

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Posted: 15 September 2012 09:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I am probably more used to pwSurface2 as the shader is older than UberSurface2 and I got it for a longer time due to that. So far at least I am able to achieve slightly better results with pwSurface2 especially when it comes to skin and the likes - just might be because I am not fully used to UberSurface2 yet.

So usually I am taking a pick based on the material types/properties needed. It does not matter which lights I am using and usually I am using an UE2 light at least for some filling, if not as main light source. I just need to watch that I am not suddenly doing two AO passes then, which would result in abysmal render times smile

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Posted: 15 September 2012 09:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Ty, that was very helpful smile

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Posted: 17 September 2012 05:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Ok, I have been playing with this quite a bit.. It seems there are some issues with upgrading from HSS to UberSurface2. Looking at the two images we can see that the ‘upgraded’ UberSurface has lost a lot of the texture from the HSS. Now this is after doing an ‘Upgrade’ where the map settings were ignored (left the same.)

In the process of testing this I went through all of the settings to see which were different/same and any that were different I attempted to reset back to the original settings. The spreadsheet shows surfaces with different settings. None of them recovered the lost texture when reset. I am left with the impression that although the two shaders both came from Omnifreaker, they are in fact not wired the same, meaning that UberSurface2 has fundamental differences in it’s coding that are in at least this case detrimental.

I specifically chose Tamisis because the textures are particularly suited for this test it seems. Also, this was tested under the default lights, UberEnvironment (shown) and Photo Studio 3, various settings. All show the same results.

I specifically did not alter the textures or surface settings, other then the surface settings that were different between the two, to avoid contaminating the test.

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HSS_vs_US2.jpgTamisis_Headshot,_Default_HSS,_UE2_4xHi.jpgTamisis_Headshot,_UberSurfac2_Upgrade,_UE2_4xHi.jpg
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Posted: 17 September 2012 08:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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On a side note, I really like the Tamisis character. It seems to be a high quality skin smile

And, I appreciate everyone’s help so far, I’m just frustrated that I’m not getting the results I expected. Szark had an image up where he used US2’s 2nd layer to produce natural looking veins.. I don’t have the link atm but it was very interesting and produced nice results.

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Posted: 17 September 2012 10:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Tamisis Head, HSS Default, UE2 IDL-directional. 6’30”

This is more what I had in mind as a starting point for UberSurface2, so that I could play with the features beyond this point…

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Posted: 18 September 2012 05:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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The ctrl-click options keep the maps, butt hey don’t preserve any other settings.

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